At what testosterone doses can you go without aromatase inhibitors?

[DECLAN]

I don't understand why he's so concerned about gyno. Dude's already got the vag.

Are you saying he should aim for gyno since he’s got a pussy already lol

 

[accidentaljedi173]

Yep, two threads if i am not mistaken.

It's weird he says he researched heavily. As someone who is fairly new to this myself I can see he's asking some basic questions that literally have no answer since everything is different per person.

 

[buck]

I get high E2 at even 100mg/week these days. didn't use to be that way. Just depends on the person and what they are trying to avoid. The no symptom group will not care what the levels are if they notice nothing. Those that are are looking at long term health will want well within the normal range from my reading.

 

[G0ld]

Idk what you’re reading but it’s nothing on this site. If it were, you’d have 100 less posts and be on a different path.

What path exactly?

 

[G0ld]

I've cruised test c on 250mg my tt level was I believe 1600 ng/dl and my e2 52, I raised to 500mg test c and my tt was a little over 3000 ng/dl and my e2 was 150. On 250mg I didn't need an AI, on 500mg I took nolvadex and arimidex for my nips and I had light acne. However, you can't assume any of this will apply to your levels and your dosages. Everything is arbitrary and specific to each person. Your question can only be answered through your own experience and blood testing/ side effects you may or may not develop.

Yes, everything is specific to the individual, but average data points still exist.

Thanks for this reply.

I'm starting with a TRT dose that I will start slowly increasing to see how far I can how without AIs. That way I will measure the aromatization rate so I can know what doses what levels give me and what doses of aromatase inhibitors exactly to take.

These aromatase inhibitors are dangerous, because the wrong dose can crash estrogen, which has nasty side effects like osteoporosis. That's why I'm researching so carefully and want to do my cycle dosages with high precision.

 

[G0ld]

I get high E2 at even 100mg/week these days. didn't use to be that way. Just depends on the person and what they are trying to avoid. The no symptom group will not care what the levels are if they notice nothing. Those that are are looking at long term health will want well within the normal range from my reading.

So your aromatization rate has changed (increased)? Did you gain body fat?

 

[buck]

So your aromatization rate has changed (increased)? Did you gain body fat?

No lost a few pounds. Eat healthy my whole life workout, aerobics good blood work except for E2. Everything is good just happened suddenly. Me and the Dr. don't know why. Although he figures i am doing something and not telling him about it.

 

[Jin23]

These aromatase inhibitors are dangerous, because the wrong dose can crash estrogen, which has nasty side effects like osteoporosis

This is a good example of you being a smart ass combined with a noob. You wont get osteoporosis if you chrash your estrogen for a week, or even months for that matter. What you will get though is issue with immune system, issues with the HPA system which ties to anxiety, sleep, BG regulation, lipids, even ties to your PFC executive functions, etc. All of this factors, plus many more, are what's actually going to give you issues if you crash your estrogen and not freaking osteoporosis.

Tell me, since you're so educated;

- how is estrogen tied to vasopressin release and function in the HPA axis and what is the most obvious issue which arises from this interplay when estrogen is low?
- and since we're on the topic of vasopressin, ... how does it relate to the RAAS but also, how does testosterone interact with it?
- how does vasopressin modulate sleep?
- why does low estrogen do to body water ballance?
- how does estrogen modulate the immune system?
- what role's does estrogen play in brain health? most notably, which system does it effect that helps to "keep the brain clean"?
- why is low estrogen anxiogenic (interested also on it's effects on steroidogenesis related to anxiety)
- how does estrogen effect synovial fluid?
- how does crashed estrogen effect ER receptor function and expression?

I'm keeping the questions light and general, so as to give you a chance at googling or gptjing.

 

[JC Grifter]

Yes, everything is specific to the individual, but average data points still exist.

Thanks for this reply.

I'm starting with a TRT dose that I will start slowly increasing to see how far I can how without AIs. That way I will measure the aromatization rate so I can know what doses what levels give me and what doses of aromatase inhibitors exactly to take.

These aromatase inhibitors are dangerous, because the wrong dose can crash estrogen, which has nasty side effects like osteoporosis. That's why I'm researching so carefully and want to do my cycle dosages with high precision.

Listen, I can kind of understand you’re strong desire for thinking there’s just a simple answer/formula that could apply to you specifically so you don’t have to put in the extra work to figure out how you respond.

Not only will you have a unique response to testosterone, you will also have a unique response to aromatase inhibitors. In my late 20s going into my early 30s I developed a hormonal imbalance that required me to take 1.5 mg a week of Arimidex because I was converting too much testosterone to estrogen. This went on for a few years and I never had any negative side effects the others may have using Arimidex.

I don’t know how else to say, you cannot compare other peoples responses to drugs to how you may or may not respond no matter how many times you ask it on this forum

 

[G0ld]

This is a good example of you being a smart ass combined with a noob. You wont get osteoporosis if you chrash your estrogen for a week, or even months for that matter. What you will get though is issue with immune system, issues with the HPA system which ties to anxiety, sleep, BG regulation, lipids, even ties to your PFC executive functions, etc. All of this factors, plus many more, are what's actually going to give you issues if you crash your estrogen and not freaking osteoporosis.

Tell me, since you're so educated;

- how is estrogen tied to vasopressin release and function in the HPA axis and what is the most obvious issue which arises from this interplay when estrogen is low?
- and since we're on the topic of vasopressin, ... how does it relate to the RAAS but also, how does testosterone interact with it?
- how does vasopressin modulate sleep?
- why does low estrogen do to body water ballance?
- how does estrogen modulate the immune system?
- what role's does estrogen play in brain health? most notably, which system does it effect that helps to "keep the brain clean"?
- why is low estrogen anxiogenic (interested also on it's effects on steroidogenesis related to anxiety)
- how does estrogen effect synovial fluid?
- how does crashed estrogen effect ER receptor function and expression?

I'm keeping the questions light and general, so as to give you a chance at googling or gptjing.

To be honest, I can't answer these questions expect the question about water retention. Estrogen imbalance causes water retention.

Not only will you have a unique response to testosterone, you will also have a unique response to aromatase inhibitors.

Yes, I understood it.

In my late 20s going into my early 30s I developed a hormonal imbalance that required me to take 1.5 mg a week of Arimidex because I was converting too much testosterone to estrogen. This went on for a few years and I never had any negative side effects the others may have using Arimidex.

What causes the sudden increase in aromatization?

I don’t know how else to say, you cannot compare other peoples responses to drugs to how you may or may not respond no matter how many times you ask it on this forum

Yeah, I came to the same conclusion.

 

[ShredSeason]

You broke ass motherfucker if you’re so paranoid buy an AI and some labs and stop asking retarded questions.

 

[Amgiji]

get 2/3 days worth of an aromatase inhibiter.

start at a trt level dose ~100 mg a week.

get your blood levels checked at your peak.
(depends on what you compound it with but, the general idea is 2 hours after administration while fasting.)

you should be able to get the results the same day.

if your e2 is fine go up 10 to 50 mg a week depending on how aggressive you want to be with it.

once you e2 is too high take your aromatase inhibiter for 1 to 3 day with the goal of being on it for 1 or 2 half-lifes of whatever compound you are using.

(crushing e2 for 24 to 72 hours will do no real permanent damage)

then go back to the lower dose.

if that happens the first time you use it, so you have no lower refence point half the dose then repeat these steps until you are dialed in.

 

[G0ld]

get 2/3 days worth of an aromatase inhibiter.

start at a trt level dose ~100 mg a week.

get your blood levels checked at your peak.
(depends on what you compound it with but, the general idea is 2 hours after administration while fasting.)

you should be able to get the results the same day.

if your e2 is fine go up 10 to 50 mg a week depending on how aggressive you want to be with it.

once you e2 is too high take your aromatase inhibiter for 1 to 3 day with the goal of being on it for 1 or 2 half-lifes of whatever compound you are using.

(crushing e2 for 24 to 72 hours will do no real permanent damage)

then go back to the lower dose.

if that happens the first time you use it, so you have no lower refence point half the dose then repeat these steps until you are dialed in.

Nice advice.

Didn't I have to do the test 4 weeks after the start, not 2 hours?

I will be using testosterone enanthate.

 

[Jin23]

To be honest, I can't answer these questions expect the question about water retention. Estrogen imbalance causes water retention.

So, have we established now that you aren't as researched as you think and that you have little idea about all the side effects you can and will experience?

In which scenarios does estrogen cause water retention?

This book has some solid albeit basic info; Order Book on Steroids recommend you read it. Also have a look around that web page and you'll find some solid articles too.

 

[ludi_janez]

I can do 1g/week without AI, E2 slightly elevated

with a lot of tren

my fav cycle

1g test
800mg tren ace
no ai

 

[ShredSeason]

So, have we established now that you aren't as researched as you think and that you have little idea about all the side effects you can and will experience?

In which scenarios does estrogen cause water retention?

This book has some solid albeit basic info; Order Book on Steroids recommend you read it. Also have a look around that web page and you'll find some solid articles too.

Buddy couldn’t even resd simple google searches, a whole book might be a big ask for this kid.

 

[EXCELLENTMENTALHEALTH]

I can do 1g/week without AI, E2 slightly elevated

with a lot of tren

my fav cycle

1g test
800mg tren ace
no ai

dang

500mg of test is where my vision starts to feel cross-eyed ('brain fog') and I need a mild AI (once a week half an asin/adex) or a bit of primo or DHB.

 

[Impono]

1.5g

I do not really suffer from sides with the exception of Tren it makes me have vinegar sweats at high doses.

 

[Jin23]

Buddy couldn’t even resd simple google searches, a whole book might be a big ask for this kid.

He clearly is trying to educate him self. It seems like mostly by asking questions, but if he decides to start reading, he'll at least have a source ready at hand ...

 

[G0ld]

So, have we established now that you aren't as researched as you think and that you have little idea about all the side effects you can and will experience?

In which scenarios does estrogen cause water retention?

I know the most important side effects. Now, if you think there are more side effects, feel free to mention them.

S for your question: It's elevated estrogen that causes water retention.