At what testosterone doses can you go without aromatase inhibitors?

[Type-IIx]

Yes, it's individual. But aren't there typical doses recorded in studies? On average, there should be a dose the majority of men can use and don't need AIs.

If you are talking about mood swings, I don't worry about them at all. I have good self-control and can handle mood swings.

"Only dealing with (essentially) two hormonal roller coasters, one on the way up (starting) and one on the way down (ending)."

What do you mean by "on the way down"? When saturation is achieved, don't testosterone levels stabilize (not increasing nor decreasing) and stay stable?

EDIT: Yeah, I got what you mean. No, I'm not planning an end to the testosterone supplementation. I'm planning to start a TRT dosage, then increase the dose to a cycle-level. When I finish my cycle, I'm not planning to do any PCT. Instead, I would like to remain on TRT.

So, when I do cycle, I use cycle doses, and when I'm off-cycle, I will be using TRT dose.

And I will start using cycle doses only if upper level (super physiological) testosterone levels aren't enough and I think I need more. But being on 150-200 mg T, which is a TRT dose or a very low cycle dose, is something I want to continue indefinitely.

The way I vision it is that once I will start the supplementation, the testosterone level will start increasing, then it will stop increasing when saturation is achieved, and will stay stable and static as long as I don't change the dose.

There are such studies. They show a bimodal shape due to age-related differences inherent to age-related changes to binding profile (e.g., SHBG affinity) & body fat (increasing with age).

That is to say, these individual factors (binding hormone profile & b.f.%) dictate to a substantial degree the individualism of aromatization by dose.

I'm not motivated to provide them since you do seem like an annoying fuckwit that's trying to argue for its own sake.

 

[bigboy420]

You’re the same guy that’s said he’s researched this for two years and this is all you can muster?

Literally, this kid doesnt know what hes doing. Cant wait till he fucks up. Content

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Literally, this kid doesnt know what hes doing. Cant wait till he fucks up. Content

he cant fuckup/succeed if he doesn't do anything

 

[G0ld]

Literally, this kid doesnt know what hes doing. Cant wait till he fucks up. Content

What are you talking about? I know what I'm doing, but there are just small uncertainties I need to resolve.

 

[G0ld]

he doesn't do anything

Yeah, keep dreaming.

 

[readalot]

See Fig 2 and note error on E2 units. Should be pg/ml.

The Effects of Injected Testosterone Dose and Age on the Conversion of Testosterone to Estradiol and Dihydrotestosterone in Young and Older Men - PMC

Background: During testosterone (T) therapy, T is partly converted to 17β-estradiol (E2) and 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Effects of age, testosterone dose, and body composition on total and free E2 and DHT levels are unknown. Objective: We ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What is the number one parameter controlling these guys TT level for a given dose (for a given panel)? Does it also affect E2?

What should have been plotted on the x-axis instead of TT? How about the y-axis?

Hint: see Fig. 3

Higher levels of total and free E2 in older men could potentially be due to age-related differences in body composition, circulating testosterone levels, and SHBG levels. Because adipose tissue is an important site of testosterone to E2 conversion in adult men, older men might be expected to have higher E2 levels because of higher fat mass. The proinflammatory state associated with adiposity and aging that is believed to promote aromatase activity via IL-6 might be one contributory factor (37). Although the age-related differences in total E2 levels and total E2:T ratios during testosterone therapy persisted even after adjusting for the higher percentage fat mass and SHBG levels in older men, the differences were attenuated after adjustment for these covariates. Furthermore, free E2 levels and free E2:T ratios were not significantly different between the two groups, after adjusting for fat mass, testosterone levels, and SHBG levels. Thus, age-related differences in E2 levels and E2:T ratios are at least partly related to differences in body composition between the young and older men and partly to differences in testosterone and SHBG levels.

What two parameters control mean FT level for a given weekly dose of testosterone ester? Why may they be drastically different in young vs old?

 

[readalot]

Gynecomastia: Etiology, Diagnosis, and Treatment - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

FIG. 1

Is E2 the only hormone in play?

 

[bigboy420]

he cant fuckup/succeed if he doesn't do anything

You tell that to a child wanting to hop on roids? Gamble is bigger than adult

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

You tell that to a child wanting to hop on roids? Gamble is bigger than adult

Allegedly 24. I think he is probably 17 or a troll

His know-it-all attitude screams teenager

 

[bigboy420]

Allegedly 24. I think he is probably 17 or a troll

His know-it-all attitude screams teenager

Yeaaaa man, he types so wierd. And his posts. Like i bet a kidney hes below 18

 

[readalot]

So I was wondering why you were catching so much hell @G0ld and then I went and read your post history. Please, you don't need to do any AAS at this point. If you are really 23 take some time and list out your answers to the questions contained in the 10 steps listed in the thread linked below....

Considering a first cycle....all your confusion cleared up here.

:) So you want to dabble with AAS for body dysmorphia or cosmetic reasons? Step 1. Understand the basic workings of hpt(g)a - hypothalamic pituitary testicular (aka gonadal) axis. Control theory. Where does testosterone exhibit negative feedback? H or P? How about estradiol? Step 2...

thinksteroids.com

Take your time and spend a few months getting comfortable with the material. You can list your answers in that thread. Happy to help but you are going to have to put in some work. You have homework.

You ask question after question and don't seem receptive to any feedback or answers given. Do better and help yourself.

Switch your approach. Your knowledge bank needs some investments. Your investment, not posting question after question just to see how many questions you can ask which is frustrating to others since you don't listen.

 

[bigboy420]

So I was wondering why you were catching so much hell @G0ld and then I went and read your post history. Please, you don't need to do any AAS at this point. If you are really 23 take some time and list out your answers to the questions contained in the 10 steps listed in the thread linked below....

Considering a first cycle....all your confusion cleared up here.

:) So you want to dabble with AAS for body dysmorphia or cosmetic reasons? Step 1. Understand the basic workings of hpt(g)a - hypothalamic pituitary testicular (aka gonadal) axis. Control theory. Where does testosterone exhibit negative feedback? H or P? How about estradiol? Step 2...

thinksteroids.com

Take your time and spend a few months getting comfortable with the material. You can list your answers in that thread. Happy to help but you are going to have to put in some work. You have homework.

You ask question after question and don't seem receptive to any feedback or answers given. Do better and help yourself.

Switch your approach. Your knowledge bank needs some investments. Your investment, not posting question after question just to see how many questions you can ask which is frustrating to others since you don't listen.

Amen

 

[racoon4]

my nipples get itchy and puffy at anything more than 125mg of t per week

 

[amazonas]

my nipples get itchy and puffy at anything more than 125mg of t per week

me too

 

[Mishka]

me? personally? went up to 2 gram pharmacy test e without an AI.
Did not test bloods tho, just went by feeling and did not get gyno.

 

[Zeus45]

i can do 1g without an AI...i get no gyno, no water, no dick issues, whenever i do take ai my bones hurt. DHT can block e2 receptors and my dht levels are very very high.

 

[Type-IIx]

me? personally? went up to 2 gram pharmacy test e without an AI.
Did not test bloods tho, just went by feeling and did not get gyno.

This is better than what most guys do. Sometimes no information is better than badly interpreted information.

I think you should, primarily for cardiovascular risks, still try to keep your E2 ≤ 60 pg/mL on long time-frames. Of course, with 2 g q.w. testosterone, the E2 risks are taking a back seat in priority. Basically, your A/E ratio (T:E2) was so high that your (absolutely high) E2 did not provoke estrogenic symptoms like gyno given the high background androgen.

 

[Jin23]

If you are talking about mood swings, I don't worry about them at all. I have good self-control and can handle mood swings.

You don't know what mood swings means in regards to aas, so your "reassurance" is based on absolutely nothing factual, it's just hubris. However, seeing as you plan on starting with a low dose, I think you'll be safe. And a note on 150 - 200mg's, those dosages will probably be too high for TRT. If you want to start at TRT, start at 75 to 100 mg's. And even 100mg's equals to 1000 ng/dl with free T above range for a lot of people, including me.

And I will start using cycle doses only if upper level (super physiological) testosterone levels aren't enough and I think I need more.

This sentence makes little sense. Supraphysiological, or how you called it "super" physiological (trying to become a Super hero?), means your serum levels are above the normal natural reference range not below.

Again, you've no idea what you're getting yourself in. Mood swings, he said. You can't even see past your own ignorance, all you project to the world around you is blind ego and AAS will make this character trait much much worse and when you combine that with your youthful feeble mindedness, ... it's going to be a roller coaster.

Go in without that stupid ego, and play it safe and slow (as you intend to), and be mindful of mental/personality changes. Also, seeing as you are asking about E2 levels at certain mg's of testosterone, it seems like you don't plan on doing bloods, or what? Everybody needs to do bloods and adjust their meds accordingly, you can't avoid that, so your query really doesn't make a lot of sense outside of the fact that you wont be doing bloods?

 

[JazzHump]

I need it on anything above 200. Even on 200 I hold some water in my face. I probably woundn't have any high E sides on 150 or lower.

 

[Dookrich]

I’ve noticed over the years I can up test more and more with no issue. Started at 150mg had issues now up to 750mg no issues