DNP, T3, Clen at the same time

[Starkraven]

I never used clen before and when i do DNP, i either do it alone and follow up with 1 tab of t3 for 7 days or do it with t3 and follow up as well. ive done many DNP cycles so i know my tolerance. 600mg per day is usually enough, actually 500mg per day seems to be a good dose. Usually i try to keep a diet strict but my appetite goes through the roof (i already have a huge appetite naturally) so i never keep it strict. That is the main reason for the clen, to suppress appetite. Also, I heard it is like ephedrine, where it brings the fat into the blood so DNP can burn it..Also, I never did cardio on DNP before. Only went out at night once but stopped, felt too short of breath.

Right now I am about 15-16% BF and I think if i use DNP at 500mg per day (or 400,600,400 etc), T3 at 1-2 tabs per day, and Clen 3-4 tabs per day, along with my super strict diet, and cardio (medium intensity brisk walk 3.5mph) for 30-45 minutes every morning upon waking on empty, I'll get under 10% BF. What do you guys think?

 

[kemo]

Good Point

If any of you bro's decide to take T3, Clen, and DNP at the same time, make sure to drink tons of water (up to 2 gallons ED). When I last combined them all, I didn't take them sparingly, and ended with horrible cramps in my HUGE 33" thighs and had lots of trouble sleeping. Just in case anyone else encounters similar sides, you can also take potassium, taurine and vitamin c....

--> "The Big Horse"

Horse.....exactly.....I know for a fact that if you don't drink enough and get enough potassium you end up in a cramped ball of sweat. V8 is by far the best drink to have when on DNP.

Also....as for why you don't take DNP with ECA, this is open to some debate, but I will give you the 2 second version. Ephedrine works part of its magic via beta-3's and the uncoupling of the ETC chain. This is near the same method whereby DNP works, although DNP goes straight to the mitochondria level. While Clen exerts effects much the same way as Ephedrine, pure Clen use keeps out the caffeine and aspirin synergistic effects. Basically here is the point. DNP will cause a decrease in body temperature as measured by a thermometer (yes...I said decrease). ECA is likely to cause an increase. You are going to be yo-yo-ing the temperature regulation system in the body, which in my opinion is a little more dangerous than what we should be doing. DNP and Clen is much cleaner. Either way, if you combine DNP with T-3 you will notice a good decrease in BF....the clen is primarily used for energy.

 

[Starkraven]

hey guys thanks for posting! basically, i have done dnp many times so i know about drinking alot of water and that i hold alot of water while on it, i tend to look best 5-7 days after the last cap. some say it takes even longer like 2 full weeks for the final results. i think this is true so i will be taking pics 1 week post dnp. ive been using since july 2001 and have done over 10 cycles. at first, i was using cocaine, and i did both dnp/cocaine together, i do know that is bad, but i did it and im not dead and i dont think i messed myself up in anyway. i do NOT use coke anymore, it was only a 3 month period, but on that, i did sweat alot but didnt feel too hot, i cant remember really. i would sweat alot but i wouldnt be so miserable. i would get neaseous i think it was a lack of carbs or minerals. the coke suppressed my appetite very well which is why i am thinking of clen. i do not want to touch coke or ephedrine because they are strong stimulants. at least coke is. and i want a stimulant while on dnp for 3 reasons. #1 to suppress my appetite big time. #2 bring the fat to the blood where dnp can burn it? (i think thats why when i used coke with it, it was very effective, i would do 1 tab of t3 in the off-week, BTW) and #3 for energy..i dont want to sleep all day and night. the reason i do not want to use eca is because i dont want heart palps or heart problems. i get that when using stimulants, i cant tolerate them. but with clen, i dont think i should have those problems. does it feel stronger than caffeine?

also about eca, i heard it does not do its magic via uncoupling of the ETC chain but on the CNS like you mentioned. also i do not think DNP will cause a decrease in body temperature. please fill me in on this.

i heard the V8 is really good while on dnp so i will have 1 can per day. ive done dnp/t3 before and dnp/coke before so i dont see why anything is wrong with dnp/t3/clen so long as i drink enough water and be careful. do you guys think i need to take anything else with it as far as supps? everyone takes alot of supps on dnp, i never did, i only took 3g vitamin c per day thats it.

as for dnp and clen being cleaner, then i should be good to go with dnp/t3/clen because ive done dnp with t3 before.

lets talk more about this before i begin. i am carb depleting now for 3 days prior to beginning so this is day 1. i have not done the carb depletion before but this time im dead serious about getting ripped.

Horse.....exactly.....I know for a fact that if you don't drink enough and get enough potassium you end up in a cramped ball of sweat. V8 is by far the best drink to have when on DNP.

Also....as for why you don't take DNP with ECA, this is open to some debate, but I will give you the 2 second version. Ephedrine works part of its magic via beta-3's and the uncoupling of the ETC chain. This is near the same method whereby DNP works, although DNP goes straight to the mitochondria level. While Clen exerts effects much the same way as Ephedrine, pure Clen use keeps out the caffeine and aspirin synergistic effects. Basically here is the point. DNP will cause a decrease in body temperature as measured by a thermometer (yes...I said decrease). ECA is likely to cause an increase. You are going to be yo-yo-ing the temperature regulation system in the body, which in my opinion is a little more dangerous than what we should be doing. DNP and Clen is much cleaner. Either way, if you combine DNP with T-3 you will notice a good decrease in BF....the clen is primarily used for energy.

 

[kemo]

Good research

Stark.....

It sounds like you have done some good research.....glad to hear that. Many people just think it is a wonder drug and jump in.

O.k. couple of points of clarification in my previous posts:

ECA does work the same way as clen in the CNS stimulation, however E also has an ability to uncouple the ETS above and beyond. Not really sure why, I haven't round good research on this yet, but I know this has been noted in a few research papers when comparing therapuetic epenephrine to albuterol. (basically ephedrine vs. clen). I'll let you know more when I do. For that reason, I just prefer the clen. I'll also tell you I am a little biased on the whole against ECA if you have access to clen. I know this is totally open to debate, but I think Clen is a little safer than E based on some of it's systemic activities. Again, just my opinion.

As for body temperature. The difference between Ephedrine/Clen and DNP is that DNP has no regards to the type of cell it causes uncoupling in. This results in DNP going to the cellular level on smooth muscles as well (digestive, etc.) When this occurs, the body tends to react by over vasilating and expanding the heat reduction abilities of all cells. Basically, on DNP the body becomes much more effective at reducing body temp. Most users will notice a slight rise in body temp for around 48 hours, and then a decrease to below normal temp for the remainder of the time they are on DNP. However, two things should be noted: First, the combination of substances like Clen or ECA can counteract this thus causing an overall increase. Second, if the DNP levels get too high, the body can not compensate and temperature will again start to increase. This is why anytime a body temp is above 100 in a DNP user, we start to see various complications. A maximum temperature for any user should be 99.5. However, I can tell you that in our research with stand alone doses of DNP in the 400-600mg/day range in 100kg subjects the average temperature was 36.6 celsius (97.8).

Stark, I would be interested in more info about your results when using DNP with Coke. Not that I wan't to make this a recommendation, I am just curious.

If you are really wanting to get some good results, look under my name for a post I just did on another DNP thread. I put a stack in there about how to ramp up T-3 and Clen while taking DNP. I think this will work well for you also.

If you want to get real fancy, I would also add in some Nolvadex at 20mg a day while you are running your cycle. It seems to help block some normal estrogen levels which helps target fat loss at some resistant areas in the gut.

Hope this helps.....

Kemo

 

[Starkraven]

wow great post. yes i have been researching this for about 3 years now. i did not know that about E's ability to uncouple the ETC. as you can tell, im trying not to take eca and use clen so thats good. basically, i was using coke at the time and just started my dnp 200mg/400/200, i think it makes you hotter. well it made me sweat more but i couldnt tell if that was because it was summer or not. but it suppressed my appetite and i was so thirsty i still remember this, i would carry a 'coleman' water jug and drink water all day. and wake up during the night from dry throat from the dnp. actually one night, i remember it was my first cycle, i took two caps on day 1, two caps on day 2, and took two on day 3 but 3 hours after the second cap i wanted to take another one and i did, and felt so hot, i puked out the chicken/yam i ate before, i couldnt even sleep on my bed i had to sleep on my floor with fans on me, windows open, i was so hot i kept waking up at night, i thought i was going to die or something but i didnt freak out or anything. that wasnt with coke though. i lowered my dose to 200/400/200 while on coke and because it suppressed my appetite so much, i ate 1 meal a day at a fast food join but no soda. just one burger and some fries. i did dnp/coke again earlier this year too, i just hate coke though, its so bad, dangerous and the coming off i cannot handle, it is so depressing for me i stay away from it now.

btw i took a look at the cycle recommendation you posted in the other thread. i posted my plans as well:

im on my 2nd day of carb depletion. imagine suppressing the appetite, eating perfect, doing some cardio on empty, running t3 and clen, doing the carb depletion prior to beginning, running the dnp 10 days straight at 400-600mg per day, drinking 1.5 gallons water per day with other supps, and tailing the t3/clen for 7 days after the last dose of dnp.

i just got my BF tested at 17.1% by calipers. my goal might sound a little stretchy but im aiming to lose over 10 pounds of pure fat and get under 10% BF.

if that is done, i will begin my next cycle of 100mg test suspension ed, 75mg tren ed, and 500mg eq per week, and maybe 40mg dbol ed first 6 weeks. i have never done a cycle like this or the dnp but this time i am dead serious about my goals.

Stark.....

It sounds like you have done some good research.....glad to hear that. Many people just think it is a wonder drug and jump in.

O.k. couple of points of clarification in my previous posts:

ECA does work the same way as clen in the CNS stimulation, however E also has an ability to uncouple the ETS above and beyond. Not really sure why, I haven't round good research on this yet, but I know this has been noted in a few research papers when comparing therapuetic epenephrine to albuterol. (basically ephedrine vs. clen). I'll let you know more when I do. For that reason, I just prefer the clen. I'll also tell you I am a little biased on the whole against ECA if you have access to clen. I know this is totally open to debate, but I think Clen is a little safer than E based on some of it's systemic activities. Again, just my opinion.

As for body temperature. The difference between Ephedrine/Clen and DNP is that DNP has no regards to the type of cell it causes uncoupling in. This results in DNP going to the cellular level on smooth muscles as well (digestive, etc.) When this occurs, the body tends to react by over vasilating and expanding the heat reduction abilities of all cells. Basically, on DNP the body becomes much more effective at reducing body temp. Most users will notice a slight rise in body temp for around 48 hours, and then a decrease to below normal temp for the remainder of the time they are on DNP. However, two things should be noted: First, the combination of substances like Clen or ECA can counteract this thus causing an overall increase. Second, if the DNP levels get too high, the body can not compensate and temperature will again start to increase. This is why anytime a body temp is above 100 in a DNP user, we start to see various complications. A maximum temperature for any user should be 99.5. However, I can tell you that in our research with stand alone doses of DNP in the 400-600mg/day range in 100kg subjects the average temperature was 36.6 celsius (97.8).

Stark, I would be interested in more info about your results when using DNP with Coke. Not that I wan't to make this a recommendation, I am just curious.

If you are really wanting to get some good results, look under my name for a post I just did on another DNP thread. I put a stack in there about how to ramp up T-3 and Clen while taking DNP. I think this will work well for you also.

If you want to get real fancy, I would also add in some Nolvadex at 20mg a day while you are running your cycle. It seems to help block some normal estrogen levels which helps target fat loss at some resistant areas in the gut.

Hope this helps.....

Kemo

 

[kemo]

Good plan

Stark,

Thanks for the info.....interesting about the coke, but glad to hear you are going with a little different cycle this time.

I know what you mean about hot....the first time I took DNP, I had just ramped up to 600mg/day and I went to a Mrs. Fields Cookie shop....couldn't help but get one of those lemon bars. Let's just say this....if a preacher wants to get someone afraid of hell they should give them 600mg of DNP followed by a 10 oz bar of pure sugar. The DNP went right to work clearing those carbs, much to the dismay of my sheets, my electric bill, and my wife who was ready to put me in the deepfreeze and lock the door.

I think your cycle sounds pretty good. How many routines are you going to do? I would guess that you will probably lose 5-6 pounds your first 7 day run, and then 3-4 each time after that. Therefore you will probably need 2-3 cycles.

Let me know how it goes!!!

Kemo

 

[BIGDE235]

Im glad that your so motivated in losing weight but that is something your going to have to fix. Say you do get shredded and look great then what? Your going to revert to eating all the fucken time again and get fat. So your going to have to do DNP its going to be a never ending cycle till you learn how to control your urges and diet right. But maybe Im wrong.

ThePatriot

NO YOUR NOT WRONG PATRIOT.... IT'S ALL ABOUT HOW DISPLINE YOU ARE!!!!

BIG DE

 

[BIGDE235]

Stark,

Thanks for the info.....interesting about the coke, but glad to hear you are going with a little different cycle this time.

I know what you mean about hot....the first time I took DNP, I had just ramped up to 600mg/day and I went to a Mrs. Fields Cookie shop....couldn't help but get one of those lemon bars. Let's just say this....if a preacher wants to get someone afraid of hell they should give them 600mg of DNP followed by a 10 oz bar of pure sugar. The DNP went right to work clearing those carbs, much to the dismay of my sheets, my electric bill, and my wife who was ready to put me in the deepfreeze and lock the door.

I think your cycle sounds pretty good. How many routines are you going to do? I would guess that you will probably lose 5-6 pounds your first 7 day run, and then 3-4 each time after that. Therefore you will probably need 2-3 cycles.

Let me know how it goes!!!

Kemo

You guys are smoking the key boards with all this great info!!! Keep it coming

big de

 

[kemo]

Thanks Bro

Thanks bro.....I am just trying to do my part and give back to the community. I wish it were as easy as just going to your local doc and getting straight advice, but that isn't the way it is with all the politics. Unfortunately, this leads to people not getting good info and getting hurt. Even the "researchers" that I work with would totally deny even knowing what DNP is out in the public. That is why boards like this are so important.

BTW....I totally agree with you and Patriot. Discipline is the key when it comes to weight loss. DNP is a supplement, just like roids. If you don't do the work, you don't deserve the shortcuts. However, I gotta love this stuff for getting rid of those resistant love handles, and for helping me get back to shredded after a bit of Holiday cheer.

Have a great Holiday everyone,

Kemo

 

[wisdom]

Good thread guys. I just finished my first cycle of DNP, started w/200mg the first 3 days and 400mg days 4-9. This is my first day off, and I feel worse than the whole time I was on. I can't really tell how much weight I've lost yet with all the water still being retained, but it's 8 pounds as of today. I'll give it another couple of days b4 I see the overall results.

Any advice on keeping the weight off after DNP, I have heard that in many cases the weight is gained back?

 

[kemo]

Weight Regain

Wisdom,

Congrats on the weight loss!!!! I think you are going to be extremely happy in about 4 more days when everything gets back in balance a little. Your energy will come back quickly. Are you going to do another cycle soon?

As to your question...I think some of the reason that the weight is regained is due to the overall diet and scheme that DNP played in getting the weight off. Our research has shown that weight that is reduced with DNP is somewhat more resistant to coming back. However, it is important to note that this was in individuals that were already eating fairly clean, and were using DNP to get past a platuea or to kick start an obesity down to the point of being able to effectively cardio. Bottom line is this.....I think the whole rumor that DNP weight comes back easy was started by people who were cheating....using DNP in place of good eating habits....in which case once the DNP was discontinued the weight magically reappeared.

Math Example........Average caloric need for a moderately active individual is 20cal/pound of lean weight per day. Assuming the person weighs 190 pounds at 20% bf, they would have roughly 150 lbs lean weight, and would need 3000 calories per day to maintain their weight. If they add DNP, they move up to around 28cal/pound needed, so they are now burning 4200 calories / day. Assuming they were already eating the 3000 per day, they now have a deficit of 1200 calories per day. There are roughly 3500 calories per pound of body weight, so this person would lose 1 pound every 3 days.

Problem is.....most people are eating 3000 calories per day (in my example)...when they start on DNP, they see the weight drop and tend to start eating a little more. (For some reason this actually happens...it must be some sort of psychological feedback to stop wasting...not sure). Even if they are on Clen to suppress appetite, we often see a rebound of calories eaten once off the clen. Now they are eating 3600 calories per day....but they are still losing weight (600 calorie deficit). They don't really notice the few extra calories, because of the weight loss. However, when they come off DNP, they are now running at a positive 600 calories per day, and the weight comes back as fast as it comes off.

O.K. Obviously I am totally speculating on why some people regain their weight after DNP. In all of our examples, we had controlled diets pre and post DNP, and the weight did not come back. If anyone has an experience where they kept their diet clean and still regained weight after the cessation of DNP use, I would be fascinated to hear about it.

Hope this helps.....

Kemo

 

[Starkraven]

wisdown, you are going to drop another 3-5 pounds of water. you will look best 4-7 days off.

my advice is run 1 tab of t3 in the off-week and keep diet strict, carb low only good complex carbs like oats, brown rice and yams. im not sure of your metabolism so i do not know if you will be able to hold your new look without dieting/doing cardio, but generally under 10% requires a person to be active/dieting unless they are genetically lean.

you will gain weight back if you eat like crap.

you got very very good results BTW. 8 pounds of fat loss on that dose is incredible. how was the diet? any cardio? what else did you take with it?

 

[kemo]

Great Advise

wisdown, you are going to drop another 3-5 pounds of water. you will look best 4-7 days off.

my advice is run 1 tab of t3 in the off-week and keep diet strict, carb low only good complex carbs like oats, brown rice and yams. im not sure of your metabolism so i do not know if you will be able to hold your new look without dieting/doing cardio, but generally under 10% requires a person to be active/dieting unless they are genetically lean.

you will gain weight back if you eat like crap.

you got very very good results BTW. 8 pounds of fat loss on that dose is incredible. how was the diet? any cardio? what else did you take with it?

Great advise Stark!!! I totally forgot to mention the bit about being below 10%....that is a struggle. The male body is going to gravitate toward the 12-14% range unless you have great genes or are very active.

 

[wisdom]

Wisdom,

Congrats on the weight loss!!!! I think you are going to be extremely happy in about 4 more days when everything gets back in balance a little. Your energy will come back quickly. Are you going to do another cycle soon?

Thank you for your response bro. I am very happy with my results so far, and you definately helped me out with the post dnp diet info. As for another cycle, I think I am where I need to be right now, I'm 6'3 about 218 @ 10-12%. Once the water is off I will be able to tell you exactly. Thanks again bro, wisdom.

 

[wisdom]

wisdown, you are going to drop another 3-5 pounds of water. you will look best 4-7 days off.

my advice is run 1 tab of t3 in the off-week and keep diet strict, carb low only good complex carbs like oats, brown rice and yams. im not sure of your metabolism so i do not know if you will be able to hold your new look without dieting/doing cardio, but generally under 10% requires a person to be active/dieting unless they are genetically lean.

you will gain weight back if you eat like crap.

you got very very good results BTW. 8 pounds of fat loss on that dose is incredible. how was the diet? any cardio? what else did you take with it?

Thanks for the advice bro. Honestly the diet was pretty clean, I didn't get the carb urges most people talk about from the DNP. I didn't change my diet too much while on, but I really wasn't hungry often, a lot of times I would have to force the food down. I drank up to 2 gallons of water a day, and took the necessary vitamins. It was my first time using DNP, so that might explain the drastic weightloss. I don't really have the option of using t-3 but i will definately take your advice on the diet and cardio. Thanks again bro and I'll keep you guys posted on the results. wisdom

 

[Starkraven]

Thanks for the advice bro. Honestly the diet was pretty clean, I didn't get the carb urges most people talk about from the DNP. I didn't change my diet too much while on, but I really wasn't hungry often, a lot of times I would have to force the food down. I drank up to 2 gallons of water a day, and took the necessary vitamins. It was my first time using DNP, so that might explain the drastic weightloss. I don't really have the option of using t-3 but i will definately take your advice on the diet and cardio. Thanks again bro and I'll keep you guys posted on the results. wisdom

keep the diet clean. kemo posted some very great info. however, as for regaining weight on dnp, i never do because i keep diet clean but i have to eat clean just to maintain this so i think i will not only have to diet (not hardcore but clean moderate cals all the time) and do cardio if i want to maintain a 9% bf because all my life i was around 23% BF and i get fat very easily. i was 34% once got there bulking with cheeseburgers and no juice!! never again!. i used dnp to come down to about 18% in 6 weeks.

but now, i cannot cheat really. if i do, only once or twice a week. anymore and the weight goes up. i have to eat clean. now, when i do reach 9% BF, i will see if i need to do cardio to maintain that. could be, that just because im eating clean right now and maintaining this BF like this, then i might be able to maintain myself at 10% eating clean (i just had to lose these pounds of fat to take me there) does that make sense? like, i could probably maintain 10% with a clean diet just like i am maintaining my BF now but i doubt it. i hope though! anyways, im 17.1% bf, what a fat ass lol, although i dont look like 17, more like 14%. i am beginning tomorrow and will post results.

 

[Starkraven]

i sure hope i will lose at least 5-6 pounds of pure fat. and as for the cookies/simple carbs, one time i just couldnt stop eating oatmeal cookies, i had at least 10 because i wasnt using an appetite suppressant, and i love cookies i just cant stop so i have to throw them all out or stay away from them altogether!! after that i was like 'shit, im gonna get hot now' lol. but it was winter time so i didnt sweat much. this was 2 years ago.

i never really had the bed sheets wet like that only in the summer, my first cycles, they were extremely intense! i would wake up, the back of my head would be sweaty. and i would wake up at like 2-3 pm because i fell asleep at 6 am, man it was so hot waking up at that time in the middle of summer in a hot room while on an intense dnp cycle!! but you know, i remember going to the freezer all the time with a piece of cardboard and fanning my head in there with the door open. lol it was hot. i remember, sitting somewhere at night, and i was just sweating but just sat there, if i moved i would just get more hot and sweat more!! i can actually see the lining of the wet part and dry part and i was sweating, everyone else was fine, still hot but not pouring sweat!

i am planning for 1 cycle to see where that gets me because ive never done a cycle like the one im planning so that might be the best one and i might lose so much fat, that i will just start my cycle after that. i will test my BF 1 week after i drop the dnp and if i am still in the two-digit numbers, i will do another one. i do think i will need to do two i just have a feeling. but when i am done with those two, in about 4-6 weeks from now, i will be fucking shredded bro. if i do need to do another cycle, i will follow the cycle you posted for 42 days which is exactly 6 weeks, continuing the t3 and doing the clen 2 on, 2 off.

i am 3 days carb depleted right now so i begin tomorrow, what other supplements should i buy? im going for vitamin c, e for now. 3g vit c and 800iu vit e per day. those are very strong anti-oxidants. any others?

[/QUOTE=kemo]Stark,

Thanks for the info.....interesting about the coke, but glad to hear you are going with a little different cycle this time.

I know what you mean about hot....the first time I took DNP, I had just ramped up to 600mg/day and I went to a Mrs. Fields Cookie shop....couldn't help but get one of those lemon bars. Let's just say this....if a preacher wants to get someone afraid of hell they should give them 600mg of DNP followed by a 10 oz bar of pure sugar. The DNP went right to work clearing those carbs, much to the dismay of my sheets, my electric bill, and my wife who was ready to put me in the deepfreeze and lock the door.

I think your cycle sounds pretty good. How many routines are you going to do? I would guess that you will probably lose 5-6 pounds your first 7 day run, and then 3-4 each time after that. Therefore you will probably need 2-3 cycles.

Let me know how it goes!!!

Kemo

 

[Starkraven]

BTW, in dnp, does one HAVE to have the simple sugars like blueberry yogurt? i always had some simple sugars in there like 50-75g but would i get better results without them? like just oats and yams? of course i will use them if it will aid fat loss.

 

[wisdom]

With the vitamins, this is what i took.
2 muliti-vitamins per day
4 grams Vitamin C pd
around 2000 IU Vit e pd
600 mg ala, or if you can get it r-ala
around 600 mg milk thistle

I believe that's all I took, and 2 gallons of water plus a bunch of cranberry juice every day. wisdom

 

[Starkraven]

i started today! so far, i took 200mg dnp, 25mcg t3 and 40mcg clen, and i already feel it. for supps i took 2g vitc and 400iu vit e. i plan to run 3-4g vit c per day and 800iu vit e per day. what is the purpose of ala? and doesnt cranberry juice have too much sugar if you drank "a bunch"?

 

[Starkraven]

today is Day 2. i am feeling it. yesterday i took 400mg dnp, 1 tab t3 and 2 tabs clen, diet has no simple sugars. carbs from oats/yams, protein from egg whites/chicken breast and fat only 1 tbsp flaxseed oil with a chicken breast. today i am gonna up the clen to 4 tabs and dnp will stay at 400mg although i do feel totally functional, sometimes i dont really feel much, but its always day 3 where it all begins. i thought this time i would win 3 days because of the carb depletion (as in, it would begin right away)