Do not use ppl

[theotherguy]

When taking testosterone esters; blood work is the best way to tell if it’s real or not. Other compounds like Tren, primo, etc, are the ones that need to be tested. So what if the test comes back at 275 mg/ml but it’s dosed at 250 mg/ml? If your bloodwork gives you shitty test levels, then something is definitely wrong

I don’t understand the logic here, and you’re trying to conflate 2 arguments into one.

One issue is the potency of the gear. You argue that gear potency/purity are not the same between UGL and pharma, but 3rd party testing would prove otherwise, and would even suggest that SOMETIMES UGL gear is more accurately doses that so called pharma grade.

the other argument is that you believe it is a better test of gear concentration to measure someone’s blood (which can vary WIDELY from person to person based on a multitude of factors) than to measure actual testosterone hormone in oil in a vial. Did I get that right? If so that’s a pretty silly argument

 

[Connor 25257]

I don’t understand the logic here, and you’re trying to conflate 2 arguments into one.

One issue is the potency of the gear. You argue that gear potency/purity are not the same between UGL and pharma, but 3rd party testing would prove otherwise, and would even suggest that SOMETIMES UGL gear is more accurately doses that so called pharma grade.

the other argument is that you believe it is a better test of gear concentration to measure someone’s blood (which can vary WIDELY from person to person based on a multitude of factors) than to measure actual testosterone hormone in oil in a vial. Did I get that right? If so that’s a pretty silly argument

I don’t see how it’s a silly argument. Sure, there are some RARE good ugls out there, no doubt. However, most take short cuts. If someone is only getting 4x multiplier on 500-600 mg of test; then there is no way in hell that it meets the label claim. Regardless of what “HPLC tests” would have you believe. As I mentioned; I get high ng/dl and free test levels on pharma at 250 mg/week as opposed to the shit, low results I’ve gotten with ugl/homebrew at upwards of 750 mg per week. Take the DO link from yesterday; if he was geek better results with pharma and other ugls, how in the world would that make the DO gear any good? Idc that it came back “overdosed” things like that just don’t add up

 

[nealcaffrey16]

finished product testing matters most. there are a zillion reasons why you respond with a 6x factor on Test and I respond with a 4x factor. the product testing will tell if it's legitimately dosed or not. there's really no disputing this and you're wasting everyone's mental energy stating contrary. I hear you, but you're just wrong.

 

[Gbro]

I don’t see how it’s a silly argument. Sure, there are some RARE good ugls out there, no doubt. However, most take short cuts. If someone is only getting 4x multiplier on 500-600 mg of test; then there is no way in hell that it meets the label claim. Regardless of what “HPLC tests” would have you believe. As I mentioned; I get high ng/dl and free test levels on pharma at 250 mg/week as opposed to the shit, low results I’ve gotten with ugl/homebrew at upwards of 750 mg per week. Take the DO link from yesterday; if he was geek better results with pharma and other ugls, how in the world would that make the DO gear any good? Idc that it came back “overdosed” things like that just don’t add up

Will you just shut up? You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Cashton]

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After reading through this entire thread, I can gladly say I will NEVER buy from Panda again. Pathetic that the raws are this pitiful. Now I understand why last time I brewed with panda test, my T levels only came back right at 2000 on 500 mg/week whereas I normally get that on 250 of pharma/“grey area” pharma such as pharmacom. Just thought I would put this out there for anyone who considered buying from PPL. Highly suggest finding a new brewing source. What I have left of the Cyp raws I bought from Panda *about 100 grams left all stored away * is getting dumped. Money lost, sadly. Homebrew isn’t always the answer to solving problems

Send some off to jano for the good of the forum man..maybe a couple people here can chip in to help out.. I know I would put 50$

 

[Cashton]

I don’t see how it’s a silly argument. Sure, there are some RARE good ugls out there, no doubt. However, most take short cuts. If someone is only getting 4x multiplier on 500-600 mg of test; then there is no way in hell that it meets the label claim. Regardless of what “HPLC tests” would have you believe. As I mentioned; I get high ng/dl and free test levels on pharma at 250 mg/week as opposed to the shit, low results I’ve gotten with ugl/homebrew at upwards of 750 mg per week. Take the DO link from yesterday; if he was geek better results with pharma and other ugls, how in the world would that make the DO gear any good? Idc that it came back “overdosed” things like that just don’t add up

I actually have a bag of test cyp, test, e and deca raws.. I have to send some hgh for testing in the next month, wonder if I can send more than one thing in one pack and pay for 1 or 2 more. to be sampled and save on shipping.

 

[MindlessWork]

finished product testing matters most. there are a zillion reasons why you respond with a 6x factor on Test and I respond with a 4x factor. the product testing will tell if it's legitimately dosed or not. there's really no disputing this and you're wasting everyone's mental energy stating contrary. I hear you, but you're just wrong.

Different people would metabolize gear at different rates so yes blood tests don't always tell a true story. Testing of the raws and finished product by someone like Jano is the way to go.

 

[Connor 25257]

finished product testing matters most. there are a zillion reasons why you respond with a 6x factor on Test and I respond with a 4x factor. the product testing will tell if it's legitimately dosed or not. there's really no disputing this and you're wasting everyone's mental energy stating contrary. I hear you, but you're just wrong.

So we are just discrediting blood tests all together? That doesn’t seem fair. The best way to check if your testosterone is doing what it should be doing is through a blood test. Yes, everyone will have different multipliers but it should not be skewed that much. Anybody who is running more than 600 mg of testosterone should be falling at 2600 ng/dl minimum. Their free test should also be in the 800-900s. When it comes to everything else, sure, getting it tested is fine. If of course you can trust those results. Personally, I find it to be one of those things that I think is great, but also have my doubts

 

[theotherguy]

So we are just discrediting blood tests all together? That doesn’t seem fair. The best way to check if your testosterone is doing what it should be doing is through a blood test. Yes, everyone will have different multipliers but it should not be skewed that much. Anybody who is running more than 600 mg of testosterone should be falling at 2600 ng/dl minimum. Their free test should also be in the 800-900s. When it comes to everything else, sure, getting it tested is fine. If of course you can trust those results. Personally, I find it to be one of those things that I think is great, but also have my doubts

I’m absolutely discrediting blood testing for determining how much hormone is in a mL of oil. It is a great indicator of individual response and that is all.

 

[MindlessWork]

So we are just discrediting blood tests all together? That doesn’t seem fair. The best way to check if your testosterone is doing what it should be doing is through a blood test. Yes, everyone will have different multipliers but it should not be skewed that much. Anybody who is running more than 600 mg of testosterone should be falling at 2600 ng/dl minimum. Their free test should also be in the 800-900s. When it comes to everything else, sure, getting it tested is fine. If of course you can trust those results. Personally, I find it to be one of those things that I think is great, but also have my doubts

No, we are not discrediting blood tests as they are still useful but testing of the product is another important piece.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

The raws for ugls are garbage.

I’m not going back and finding it, but if you’re curious you can find my various comments regarding this topic. The tl;dr is they’re buying their raws from all the same places. You think Hikma is getting test raws from a special super duper awesome factory in China while Panda et al are buying from elsewhere? Wrong. Same factory, same product. Welcome to the global economy. If you’re genuinely interested go back and find what I’ve said.

 

[Connor 25257]

I’m not going back and finding it, but if you’re curious you can find my various comments regarding this topic. The tl;dr is they’re buying their raws from all the same places. You think Hikma is getting test raws from a special super duper awesome factory in China while Panda et al are buying from elsewhere? Wrong. Same factory, same product. Welcome to the global economy. If you’re genuinely interested go back and find what I’ve said.

I will do that. However, and correct me if I’m wrong…..but I’m pretty sure panda makes their own raws

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

I will do that. However, and correct me if I’m wrong…..but I’m pretty sure panda makes their own raws

They do not. They buy from one of the dozens of manufacturers in Wuhan and the surrounding area. They (allegedly) have an API license in India and would be doing something interesting there. But they do not in their current business model manufacture anything.

 

[Connor 25257]

They do not. They buy from one of the dozens of manufacturers in Wuhan and the surrounding area. They (allegedly) have an API license in India and would be doing something interesting there. But they do not in their current business model manufacture anything.

Interesting. I always remember they said they are manufactures of raw powders. I suppose they have lied

 

[Connor 25257]

They do not. They buy from one of the dozens of manufacturers in Wuhan and the surrounding area. They (allegedly) have an API license in India and would be doing something interesting there. But they do not in their current business model manufacture anything.

Also; if you have any proof of that, would you care to present it? I had always heard they made their own

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

Also; if you have any proof of that, would you care to present it? I had always heard they made their own

Why would they make their own? Pfizer is a $240b company and they don’t own their own factories in China. I’m positive that he has good connections and can have some smaller factories make specific things for him. He may even have his own money invested in a smaller factory or two. That’s perfectly believable. But you think he owns a $100mm factory that makes his raws? He’d have to be selling hundreds of thousands of kilos a year just to cover operating margins and interest. And if Panda had a factory that was supplying legit pharma—which is the only way you pay for such an expensive enterprise—then he would never stop bragging about it. He’s a middle man. They all are. Want to skip that? Call the companies and order directly. Probably will be a language barrier and you may have to come up with mid five figures just as a minimum, but it’s all out there for you.

 

[MindlessWork]

Lol the back and forth

Why would they make their own? Pfizer is a $240b company and they don’t own their own factories in China. I’m positive that he has good connections and can have some smaller factories make specific things for him. He may even have his own money invested in a smaller factory or two. That’s perfectly believable. But you think he owns a $100mm factory that makes his raws? He’d have to be selling hundreds of thousands of kilos a year just to cover operating margins and interest. And if Panda had a factory that was supplying legit pharma—which is the only way you pay for such an expensive enterprise—then he would never stop bragging about it. He’s a middle man. They all are. Want to skip that? Call the companies and order directly. Probably will be a language barrier and you may have to come up with mid five figures just as a minimum, but it’s all out there for you.

Lol talking to Connor is like talking to a brick wall!

 

[Athlete127]

When taking testosterone esters; blood work is the best way to tell if it’s real or not. Other compounds like Tren, primo, etc, are the ones that need to be tested. So what if the test comes back at 275 mg/ml but it’s dosed at 250 mg/ml? If your bloodwork gives you shitty test levels, then something is definitely wrong

you are so wrong I dont even know where to start...

 

[Gbro]

Lol the back and forth

Lol talking to Connor is like talking to a brick wall!

There is a reason they call him Connor the Retard.

 

[Sampei]

I actually have a bag of test cyp, test, e and deca raws.. I have to send some hgh for testing in the next month, wonder if I can send more than one thing in one pack and pay for 1 or 2 more. to be sampled and save on shipping.

Yes you can, done it few times