Do people use too much gear than necessary?

[borkies]

You could use some saw palmetto and cialis for starters. As for digestion, sure as age goes by it diminishes and it's a pain in the as$ for many "mature" dudes. Nothing that cannot be fixed though, you just need to put the effort and money to get coached by someone skilled in the GI track and gut health. There are many guys thinking by just eating much they're covered when in reality they're pissing from their butts. What you're able to absorb matters more than how much can you eat. Anyways, i think 240 and fairly lean is already way impressive. You could still look awesome in that range by trying to get just a bit leaner in each blast than actually putting more size on your frame. Cheers man!

This is great advice about the eating. I do take Cialis already but have not tried saw palmetto.

As far as the eating... pissing from my butt sounds about right. Not only am I not able to stuff down the food like I used to, I'm not absorbing what I eat anymore either. Eating the same things I have eaten on blast for years... lean beef, chicken breast, tilapia, greek yogurt, white rice, sweet potatoes, spinach, etc with some occasional whey isolate here and there. But the body changes and if I spoke with a nutrition expert / someone that knows gut stuff I'd probably find that some dietary changes would be in order.

Right now I'm just spinning my gears, feeling crappy, spraying the toilet and getting mad at people who drop the plates on the cable machines.

 

[mr_meanor]

Why grown up ass men need help to comprehend simple statements?



That includes:
Training
Food
BP
etc.

in a make-believe hypothetical world does your bp and blood work stay the same when you start pumping massive doses without more drugs which equals more side effects hence you just voided yourself out of the conversation. can't reason with some people that just want to be right you're talking to air at this point.

 

[Ouch]

This is great advice about the eating. I do take Cialis already but have not tried saw palmetto.

As far as the eating... pissing from my butt sounds about right. Not only am I not able to stuff down the food like I used to, I'm not absorbing what I eat anymore either. Eating the same things I have eaten on blast for years... lean beef, chicken breast, tilapia, greek yogurt, white rice, sweet potatoes, spinach, etc with some occasional whey isolate here and there. But the body changes and if I spoke with a nutrition expert / someone that knows gut stuff I'd probably find that some dietary changes would be in order.

Right now I'm just spinning my gears, feeling crappy, spraying the toilet and getting mad at people who drop the plates on the cable machines.

Saw palmetto, pumpkin seeds or seed oil, stinging nettle extract and pygeum are all useful for prostate issues. Some of those also help with load size…for science.

 

[Ouch]

Fuck yes people take more than needed. Some of yall out there need Jesus and the holy trinity in your life.

Imo the correct dosage is always the minimum amount for your specific goals. For me, that’s 400mg of total androgens on a blast max…but Im not trying to compete, in my 40’s, and I want to live to 150 years old.

The problem is you have a LOT of ppl using damn near Olympia protocols, w/o the discipline, diet, training, genetics and proper time on task.

 

[narta]

you're talking to air at this point

We agree on that.

Crack on

 

[jankoch]

in a make-believe hypothetical world does your bp and blood work stay the same when you start pumping massive doses without more drugs which equals more side effects hence you just voided yourself out of the conversation. can't reason with some people that just want to be right you're talking to air at this point.

'In vitro' what he says is true.

In reality what you say is true. You can't just up the doses without side effects.
What happens in reality should have the bigger weight tho in this convo.

 

[Liter O' Test]

Fuck yes people take more than needed. Some of yall out there need Jesus and the holy trinity in your life.

Imo the correct dosage is always the minimum amount for your specific goals. For me, that’s 400mg of total androgens on a blast max…but Im not trying to compete, in my 40’s, and I want to live to 150 years old.

The problem is you have a LOT of ppl using damn near Olympia protocols, w/o the discipline, diet, training, genetics and proper time on task.

I dont see anyone post large blasts here,
people are using less gear than they have in a decade, monitoring their health and keeping their health markers in check more than EVER IN HISTORY OF STEROIDS.

Theres more information on diet and training on the internet THAN EVER. More coaches than EVER. Right through the internet! Sending videos!
The LATEST detailed medical information readily accessible.
High level bodybuilding workouts that aren't kept secret anymore, millions of hours of training videos.

10 years ago on the internet, people were recommending 500mg-700mg tren as a starting dose and no one was taking BP meds let alone checking their cholesterol, full of water stressing their organs with nosebleeds from hypertension, doing whatever bodybuilding.com workout told them and eating poptarts

Now people are worried about insignificant things on TRT cycles, adding in other compounds at 25% of what would be recommended just a few years ago, whatever money they are saving by getting cheaper gear in 2024, theyre spending 4x that amount on ancillaries/supplements for health and longevity, theyre spending money on health consultations with experts, there are whole podcasts answering user gear questions.

its out in the open.

Anyone who thinks there is some crisis of dosages or harm reduction in 2024 is either gatekeeping, been under a rock or has access to some secret forum I havent seen but would like access to

 

[Necessary Evil]

Do you think people use more gear than necessary to achieve their goals? A lot have the idea that more drugs equal more size.

Yeah, for sure. A lot of people definitely use way more gear than they need to. There’s this whole “more drugs = more size” mentality that’s pretty common, but it’s really not that simple.

I think a lot of it comes down to impatience and misinformation. People want results yesterday, so they think bumping up the dose will get them there faster. Plus, there’s a ton of bad advice out there—like guys in the gym or on forums pushing the idea that higher doses are the key to massive gains.

The reality is, you hit a point of diminishing returns pretty quickly. More gear doesn’t mean more muscle; it just means more side effects—like gyno, high blood pressure, and long-term health issues. I’ve seen guys who just crank the doses, but their gains don’t match the risks they’re taking.

Honestly, you’re better off focusing on training, diet, and recovery. Plenty of guys find they can actually grow on lower doses once they’ve got the rest of their shit dialed in. Less is often more when it comes to gear.

So yeah, people definitely overdo it, and it’s not worth the extra risk.

 

[Xplicit]

I dont see anyone post large blasts here,

Anyone who thinks there is some crisis of dosages or harm reduction in 2024 is either gatekeeping, been under a rock or has access to some secret forum I havent seen but would like access to

This discussion has been had here before. Of course you dont see large blasts posted here, this isnt the forum for that. Its a harm reduction forum.

The forum for large doses is not a secret either, comes up very easily via google searches.

Both approaches can be combound, just depends on ones goals.

 

[marsupial]

Fuck yes people take more than needed. Some of yall out there need Jesus and the holy trinity in your life.

Imo the correct dosage is always the minimum amount for your specific goals. For me, that’s 400mg of total androgens on a blast max…but Im not trying to compete, in my 40’s, and I want to live to 150 years old.

The problem is you have a LOT of ppl using damn near Olympia protocols, w/o the discipline, diet, training, genetics and proper time on task.

I think 400 total max on a blast is a bit extreme. If you want to make the blasts, the compromised blood markers, and health damage count, you need to push a bit higher on blasts and then stay at true cruise doses or come off. Otherwise you’re still gonna be causing things like low LDL/HDL, high HCT, heart musculature remodeling without much to show. And if you actually stay at real cruise doses and not blast back to back so soon (which, sure, most people here don’t), all that stuff will normalize, not to mention if you get your hands on ancillaries like statins and do RBC donation

Edit: I guess if you’re 40 you should have harder limits, but a young guy trying to maximally benefit from gear honestly won’t be that significantly far ahead of a well-informed natty with good bodybuilding genes if they only stick to 200-250 test (and don’t include any other significant mass builder eg deca, dbol) and refuse to blast higher even temporarily

 

[Spideog]

Yeah, for sure. A lot of people definitely use way more gear than they need to. There’s this whole “more drugs = more size” mentality that’s pretty common, but it’s really not that simple.

I think a lot of it comes down to impatience and misinformation. People want results yesterday, so they think bumping up the dose will get them there faster. Plus, there’s a ton of bad advice out there—like guys in the gym or on forums pushing the idea that higher doses are the key to massive gains.

The reality is, you hit a point of diminishing returns pretty quickly. More gear doesn’t mean more muscle; it just means more side effects—like gyno, high blood pressure, and long-term health issues. I’ve seen guys who just crank the doses, but their gains don’t match the risks they’re taking.

Honestly, you’re better off focusing on training, diet, and recovery. Plenty of guys find they can actually grow on lower doses once they’ve got the rest of their shit dialed in. Less is often more when it comes to gear.

So yeah, people definitely overdo it, and it’s not worth the extra risk.

I try to take the least amount of shit possible because man. Insomnia, high BP and other issues just ain’t worth it for me. I cap test at 300mg solely so I don’t have to take an AI. I’ll add low dose tren alongside that at 200mg. Great benefits and no major sides. Doesn’t even affect my blood work that extremely as one would think. Deca for me causes way more issues than tren and couldn’t run the stuff longer than 4 weeks. Masteron ruins my hair, orals…. Just a waste of time for me personally I see no point.

 

[Ouch]

I think 400 total max on a blast is a bit extreme. If you want to make the blasts, the compromised blood markers, and health damage count, you need to push a bit higher on blasts and then stay at true cruise doses or come off. Otherwise you’re still gonna be causing things like low LDL/HDL, high HCT, heart musculature remodeling without much to show. And if you actually stay at real cruise doses and not blast back to back so soon (which, sure, most people here don’t), all that stuff will normalize, not to mention if you get your hands on ancillaries like statins and do RBC donation

Edit: I guess if you’re 40 you should have harder limits, but a young guy trying to maximally benefit from gear honestly won’t be that significantly far ahead of a well-informed natty with good bodybuilding genes if they only stick to 200-250 test (and don’t include any other significant mass builder eg deca, dbol) and refuse to blast higher even temporarily

Yeah, like I said - it’s all personal and relative. At my age and with my goals, 400 is a good combination of risk/reward. Plus I still cycle off and PCT w/ prescription Enclomiphene. That keeps my “natty” levels in the 700s (for now until it stops working).

Now, for someone 10 years younger who is competing that might not cut it. But I will say that I read another board with some old school guys who swear by lower dosages and still able to get on stage. Ofc, you don’t know who’s being honest about what they’re taking and maybe looking for a competitive advantage.

 

[bilbobagginz101]

I think 400 total max on a blast is a bit extreme. If you want to make the blasts, the compromised blood markers, and health damage count, you need to push a bit higher on blasts and then stay at true cruise doses or come off. Otherwise you’re still gonna be causing things like low LDL/HDL, high HCT, heart musculature remodeling without much to show. And if you actually stay at real cruise doses and not blast back to back so soon (which, sure, most people here don’t), all that stuff will normalize, not to mention if you get your hands on ancillaries like statins and do RBC donation

Edit: I guess if you’re 40 you should have harder limits, but a young guy trying to maximally benefit from gear honestly won’t be that significantly far ahead of a well-informed natty with good bodybuilding genes if they only stick to 200-250 test (and don’t include any other significant mass builder eg deca, dbol) and refuse to blast higher even temporarily

I agree with what you're saying, but 200mg will still put 99% of people into supraphysiological levels. 400mg would probably triple the rate of muscle synthesis for most people (based on that study that has muscle accretion being scaling linearly with Test dose up to around 600mg/wk).

I think people take too much Gear in general, but either GH or adding a supplementary DHT like Mast or Primo should be the next-level of recommendation, after the usual 500mg/wk of Test.

 

[marsupial]

I agree with what you're saying, but 200mg will still put 99% of people into supraphysiological levels. 400mg would probably triple the rate of muscle synthesis for most people (based on that study that has muscle accretion being scaling linearly with Test dose up to around 600mg/wk).

I think people take too much Gear in general, but either GH or adding a supplementary DHT like Mast or Primo should be the next-level of recommendation, after the usual 500mg/wk of Test.

DHT first for sure, for longevity purposes. And then if you’re using primo or mast, you’ll be above 400 total almost certainly

 

[DECLAN]

I still find hilarious whenever people like us on baby doses keep on talking about big boy doses. Nobody here have even done them or have the physique to match because we’re all inferior in genetics, I guess we love discussing on the hypotheticals and arguing about things we can never do or physiques we can never achieve.

 

[explodingHeart]

The biggest side effect of steroid use isn't gyno, hair loss or acne - it's gatekeeping.

"No one should take huge doses, bro."

Says the bro while idolizing former Mr. Olympias or current competitors who took "as much GH as you can afford" and 3-5g of gear.

 

[malfeasance]

Yeah, like I said - it’s all personal and relative. At my age and with my goals, 400 is a good combination of risk/reward. Plus I still cycle off and PCT w/ prescription Enclomiphene. That keeps my “natty” levels in the 700s (for now until it stops working).

Now, for someone 10 years younger who is competing that might not cut it. But I will say that I read another board with some old school guys who swear by lower dosages and still able to get on stage. Ofc, you don’t know who’s being honest about what they’re taking and maybe looking for a competitive advantage.

Wow at the natty levels in the 700s when off. Congrats. I would come off, too, if I could have levels like that when off.

I agree with what you're saying, but 200mg will still put 99% of people into supraphysiological levels. 400mg would probably triple the rate of muscle synthesis for most people (based on that study that has muscle accretion being scaling linearly with Test dose up to around 600mg/wk).

I think people take too much Gear in general, but either GH or adding a supplementary DHT like Mast or Primo should be the next-level of recommendation, after the usual 500mg/wk of Test.

As to that study with test doses up to 600mg: In case folks do not remember it, the guys taking 600mg grew more muscle.

So does that process stop if you go to 700? 750? 800? We do not know. The study did not try 750mg or 1000mg. All we know is that more is better up to 600mg. I bet 750 is even better (and those of you who have tried it probably know that is true).

They also examined the effects of lower doses. The muscle growth was 100% dose dependent in that study, and lower doses did not grow that much. They did not use 200, though. It was 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600.

Nutrition was the same for all categories (in other words, the 600mg a week guys were not eating more than the 125mg guys). There was also no exercise. Yes, that is correct, their thigh muscles grew in a dose dependent manner without extra food and with no resistance exercise stimulus.

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men - PubMed

Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.2001.281.6.E1172?rfr_dat=cr_pub++0pubmed&url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org

 

[DECLAN]

The biggest side effect of steroid use isn't gyno, hair loss or acne - it's gatekeeping.

"No one should take huge doses, bro."

Says the bro while idolizing former Mr. Olympias or current competitors who took "as much GH as you can afford" and 3-5g of gear.

I don’t understand the concept of gatekeeping? Does it even work? Who here even listens to random people telling them not to do anything?

The only reason why people do not inject 5g of gear is because they can’t either from not having enough muscles to take all the oil or the side effects get too much.

Gatekeeping in my opinion is something made up by mofos who can’t decide for themselves/

 

[malfeasance]

On the other hand, hemoglobin increased by dose, and HDL decreased by dose.

So there it is - side effects are also dose dependent.

 

[Spideog]

I don’t understand the concept of gatekeeping? Does it even work? Who here even listens to random people telling them not to do anything?

The only reason why people do not inject 5g of gear is because they can’t either from not having enough muscles to take all the oil or the side effects get too much.

Gatekeeping in my opinion is something made up by mofos who can’t decide for themselves/

Genetics are the main factor I say. Not everyone can be mr Olympia obviously. I know a guy who ran around 2 grams of gear and didn’t change much in appearance than when he ran 600-700mg of gear. Hence why I asked this question to begin with