Dosing GH to Maximise Fat Loss

MuscleFreak

Well-known Member
https://joejefferycoaching.com/all-content/2020/5/3/dosing-gh-to-maximise-fat-loss

Growth Hormone & Insulin, Fat Loss


As a cliff note, this article will not be getting into the mechanisms by which rHGH promotes lipolysis, what environment to use GH in, what type of activity to pair your GH use with etc. In the spirit of keeping these articles practical and to the point, we will be discussing what dose to use to maximise fat loss only.

Luckily for us, we have clinical data that demonstrates the ceiling dose for topping out free fatty acid mobilisation from rHGH use. [1]

As with all drugs we use in bodybuilding, contrary to popular belief, more is not better. There are counter-regulatory mechanisms in place to prevent additional lipolysis from occurring at above a certain threshold.

So let’s cut to the chase, what is that dose?

The study measures the effects of no rHGH at all and 1mcg/kg, 3mcg/kg, and 6mcg/kg of rHGH on FFA mobilisation when administered IV (alongside a couple of other markers, not relevant to our interests here).

As you can see from the image below, there was a dose-dependent increase in FFA mobilisation from no rHGH, up to 3mcg/kg. However, no additional effect is seen from doubling the dose to 6mcg/kg.

websitegh.jpeg

Left, Serum concentration curves of FFAs (A), BOH (B), and glycerol (C) after iv infusions at t = 0 min of placebo (○) or GH at doses of 1 μg/kg−1 (•), 3 μg/kg−1 (▵), and 6 μg/kg−1 (▴). Right, The integrated response was assessed as iAUC0–300 min. Data are means ± SE, n = 18. *P < 0.05 and **P < 0.01, compared with placebo; †, P < 0.05, compared with 1 μg/kg−1 GH.

If you are a 100kg male, that means per dose of rHGH, 300mcg would be your ceiling to maximise the lipolytic effect.

1000mcg = 3iu, so 300mcg = around about 1iu.

Now, remember that this study was measured using an IV administration, which I would recommend to absolutely nobody. The risk of infection is bad enough with the repeat exposure that bodybuilders see, let alone a venous infection, which is devastating.

From a paper comparing the bioavailability of IV vs sub-q administration: “Higher mean integrated values (AUC) of serum GH (mU/l) were obtained with i.v. GH delivery [47.4 +/- 5.1 (i.v.), 33.3 +/- 3.0 (s.c.), P < 0.05].” [2]

33.3/47.4 = 0.7

Thus, we see a comparative bioavailability of 70% with sub-q as compared to IV.

Accounting for the lesser bioavailability of a sub-q administration, we are left with a 1.3iu sub-q dose.

So there we have it, the maximum effective dose of rHGH for fat loss is 1.3iu/100kg bodyweight.

Simply divide 1.3 by 100 and multiply by your bodyweight in kilos if you want to see where your individual accurate dosing lies.



[1] Troels Krarup Hansen, Claus Højbjerg Gravholt, Hans Ørskov, Michael Højby Rasmussen, Jens Sandahl Christiansen, Jens Otto L. Jørgensen, Dose Dependency of the Pharmacokinetics and Acute Lipolytic Actions of Growth Hormone, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Volume 87, Issue 10, 1 October 2002, Pages 4691–4698, Dose Dependency of the Pharmacokinetics and Acute Lipolytic Actions of Growth Hormone

[2] Laursen T, Møller J, Jørgensen JO, Orskov H, Christiansen JS. Bioavailability and bioactivity of intravenous vs subcutaneous infusion of growth hormone in GH-deficient patients. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1996;45(3):333‐339. doi:10.1046/j.1365-2265.1996.00814.x
 
First, thank you for posting this info. It's something that gets asked alot (by myself included) so I know many people will appreciate it.I do have a question though. Wouldn't the equivalent dose of 1iu IV for subq at 70% absorption be 1.42iu instead of 1.3iu? 1.3*0.7=.91 but 1.42*0.7=.994. I suppose I'm splitting hairs there as it's not a significant amount. It would be a difference of 0.12iu/dose for me personally.

Also, I ran across this study a while back asserting

"The absolute bioavailability of GH following s.c. relative to i.v. administration was 49.5%."

Unfortunately, they dosed the IV and subq injections very differently. 0.1iu/kg for subq and 0.015 iu/kg for IV. I have to wonder if the subq dose was so high that it skewed the amount that would have otherwise been bioavailable. Obviously, there's going to be some variability amongst populations (and this study only had an n=16). Well, it's interesting reading nonetheless I suppose.

Thanks again for posting.
 
First, thank you for posting this info. It's something that gets asked alot (by myself included) so I know many people will appreciate it.I do have a question though. Wouldn't the equivalent dose of 1iu IV for subq at 70% absorption be 1.42iu instead of 1.3iu? 1.3*0.7=.91 but 1.42*0.7=.994. I suppose I'm splitting hairs there as it's not a significant amount. It would be a difference of 0.12iu/dose for me personally.

Also, I ran across this study a while back asserting

"The absolute bioavailability of GH following s.c. relative to i.v. administration was 49.5%."

Unfortunately, they dosed the IV and subq injections very differently. 0.1iu/kg for subq and 0.015 iu/kg for IV. I have to wonder if the subq dose was so high that it skewed the amount that would have otherwise been bioavailable. Obviously, there's going to be some variability amongst populations (and this study only had an n=16). Well, it's interesting reading nonetheless I suppose.

Thanks again for posting.
i know only one coach has been talking about doing HGH iv Bleu Taylor
 
Damn, for a 210lb male, that puts him at ~1.25iu/day for max fat loss efficacy. More or less 9iu/wk, shooting 7 days/wk.

That’s much lower than the numbers we see being thrown around most forums.

I’m planning on 3iu/day, on my 5/7 lifting days for 6 months starting soon. That’s 15iu/wk. Would splitting those into 2x1.5iu shots yield any positive benefit? Most guys don’t talk about splitting doses until around 4-6iu/day.

Another question I have, and please forgive me if I’m hijacking by placing these questions here. I’ll be monitoring blood glucose regularly during this 6 mos period, at minimum once a week. If I start to hit those pre-diabetic numbers with some regularity should I:
A) reduce the dose;
B) cease use;
C) adjust diet.
I’m not willing to take insulin so I need to make sure that blood sugar is well managed naturally.

Finally, does blood glucose typically return to normal post usage?
 
Damn, for a 210lb male, that puts him at ~1.25iu/day for max fat loss efficacy. More or less 9iu/wk, shooting 7 days/wk.

That’s much lower than the numbers we see being thrown around most forums.

I’m planning on 3iu/day, on my 5/7 lifting days for 6 months starting soon. That’s 15iu/wk. Would splitting those into 2x1.5iu shots yield any positive benefit? Most guys don’t talk about splitting doses until around 4-6iu/day.

Another question I have, and please forgive me if I’m hijacking by placing these questions here. I’ll be monitoring blood glucose regularly during this 6 mos period, at minimum once a week. If I start to hit those pre-diabetic numbers with some regularity should I:
A) reduce the dose;
B) cease use;
C) adjust diet. hr
I’m not willing to take insulin so I need to make sure that blood sugar is well managed naturally.

Finally, does blood glucose typically return to normal post usage?
yeah keep in mind this is dosages only for fat loss,guys use more to grow ofc..

i can only say u what works from me from my personal experience...i have best results using HGH 4iu eod,keeps me very insulin sensitive,body fat is always in check,and i feel HGH working great year round..i have been doing also 5/2 or 6/1 but effect start to get weaker the longer i use it,i believe that body get used to it and develops too much serum antibodies..also timing i use it fasted middle of the night when i go to bathroom.
as far as splitting i would never do that cause u have blood sugar spikes 2x time in 24hr,to have better insulin sensitivity only once and fasted.
monitor you blood sugar ofc
 
I usually just dose at 4iu ED
I think I might go 5 on 1 off for my future run.

Nice way to save some GH ehile getting the benefits
 
yeah keep in mind this is dosages only for fat loss,guys use more to grow ofc..

i can only say u what works from me from my personal experience...i have best results using HGH 4iu eod,keeps me very insulin sensitive,body fat is always in check,and i feel HGH working great year round..i have been doing also 5/2 or 6/1 but effect start to get weaker the longer i use it,i believe that body get used to it and develops too much serum antibodies..also timing i use it fasted middle of the night when i go to bathroom.
as far as splitting i would never do that cause u have blood sugar spikes 2x time in 24hr,to have better insulin sensitivity only once and fasted.
monitor you blood sugar ofc
So splitting your dose 2iu morning and 2 iu at night time is just an extra jab for nothing ? I have always used that protocol I though it was best for fat loss I think I might of seen that in the Rockwell thread I think. Is this now not as effective ? @mands can you chime in here ? Doing it in one 4Iu jab would be more convenient I though your body can’t utilities that much in one shot for fat loss and that’s why we split it
 
So splitting your dose 2iu morning and 2 iu at night time is just an extra jab for nothing ? I have always used that protocol I though it was best for fat loss I think I might of seen that in the Rockwell thread I think. Is this now not as effective ? @mands can you chime in here ? Doing it in one 4Iu jab would be more convenient I though your body can’t utilities that much in one shot for fat loss and that’s why we split it
It should be obvious that splitting the dose would maximize fat loss. But the question is at what cost.

If your second dose can be as far from food as your AM fasted dose then there’s probably not a huge issue. The biggest issue we run into is insulin sensitivity.
 
So splitting your dose 2iu morning and 2 iu at night time is just an extra jab for nothing ? I have always used that protocol I though it was best for fat loss I think I might of seen that in the Rockwell thread I think. Is this now not as effective ? @mands can you chime in here ? Doing it in one 4Iu jab would be more convenient I though your body can’t utilities that much in one shot for fat loss and that’s why we split it
good for fat loss but not for insulin sensitivity,risking to become diabetic for extra fat loss
 
It should be obvious that splitting the dose would maximize fat loss. But the question is at what cost.

If your second dose can be as far from food as your AM fasted dose then there’s probably not a huge issue. The biggest issue we run into is insulin sensitivity.
exactly just like i said..risking to become diabetic for extra fat loss not worth it..only if he plans to add slin
 
exactly just like i said..risking to become diabetic for extra fat loss not worth it..only if he plans to add slin
It should be obvious that splitting the dose would maximize fat loss. But the question is at what cost.

If your second dose can be as far from food as your AM fasted dose then there’s probably not a huge issue. The biggest issue we run into is insulin sensitivity.
Ye I don’t plan to add ever add slin it’s something I just want to stay away from so will look into just doing my shot am instead. If it’s just for overall health and fat loss will I be better to just drop it to 2iu morning shot then or 4 iu morning shot. I could also try to do a 2iu shot around 2am and then another shot when I wake up but I don’t know if that will be to close together.
 
Why is there no mention of intramuscular?
Could two injections of IM and SQ, something like .5iu IM and 1iu SQ be effective or would that just cause you to go hypo?
 
I pin almost exclusively IM to reduce the time it takes to minimize the slin sensitivity risk. No issues at all with that method so far.
That definitely gets it into and out of your bloodstream more quickly. But would the blood sugar raising effect last as long? I'm genuinely wondering. I̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶a̶b̶s̶o̶r̶p̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶I̶M̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶s̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶p̶a̶r̶t̶.̶ Well, looks like I'm gonna be doing more reading lol.

Edit: Scratch that better absorption thought. Several studies I found showed no statistically significant difference between the 2 methods.

How much GH and how frequently do you pin? Do you vary it depending on goals at certain times or do you keep it consistent (ex: 1 iu IM first thing am)? And do you feel like a pin cushion after a while lol?
 
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That definitely gets it into and out of your bloodstream more quickly. But would the blood sugar raising effect last as long? I'm genuinely wondering. I think absorption is probably better IM as well but that's just a supposition on my part. Well, looks like I'm gonna be doing more reading lol.

How much GH and how frequently do you pin? Do you vary it depending on goals at certain times or do you keep it consistent (ex: 1 iu IM first thing am)? And do you feel like a pin cushion after a while lol?
I 100% feel like a pincushion....it’s what I hate about competitive bodybuilding.

as far as gH, for show prep it’s a single dose daily, ~2iu. But I’ve only prepped with gH once.

For my current offseason I am doing the following:
High cal training days: 1iu fasted 90m before food, 3iu 90m preworkout with slin 30m after it
Normal training days: 1iu fasted
Off days: none
 
I think 4 iu ed is fine as long as BG is fine. Just check regularly.

I have been doing 4 iu ed for nine months and my blood sugar is perfect

If BG is fine then no need to go eod etc
 
Very good post, curious about any reason to take more than 2iu daily.
Larger single doses to maximize IGF (~8iu depending on your own response and studies on the topic) or to stimulate the fat burning multiple times a day with multiple small doses.
 
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