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Anabolic Steroids
Effect of HGH and peptides on people past their prime
- Thread starter DragoT
- Start date
ScabbyJr
Member
Jesus Christ. ..WTF is your problem?
Vita
Member
OP,
Thanks for your post, I too am getting on in years , and am looking for information on hGh.
I know so little about this topic (though I do consider myself a quick study) I was hoping to gain some insight from members with first hand experience though I have to say the first post I read by eman today turned into a bitch-fest about T3 by the third page, now this.
Anyway hope you continue with your post as I am interested in reading what people in my age group with first hand experience have to say, well interested in any persons with first hand knowledge on the subject. After all the more information a person can digest the better informed any decision they make can be.
Having sticky's for the hGh section would be rather nice also.
Thanks for your post, I too am getting on in years , and am looking for information on hGh.
I know so little about this topic (though I do consider myself a quick study) I was hoping to gain some insight from members with first hand experience though I have to say the first post I read by eman today turned into a bitch-fest about T3 by the third page, now this.
Anyway hope you continue with your post as I am interested in reading what people in my age group with first hand experience have to say, well interested in any persons with first hand knowledge on the subject. After all the more information a person can digest the better informed any decision they make can be.
Having sticky's for the hGh section would be rather nice also.
Thinkbig
Member
@Vita my verdict on hgh is still out as I'm sure you can tell from the other posts. This doesn't mean I'm stopping it, I plan on continuing to run it with testosterone for the next 4 or 5 months. I've been on it about 4 already. I can say that it doesn't hold a candle to TRT. Maybe it does long term, I don't know, nor do I know if I can justify paying for it for a year if I do not see results. I'd say if you car afford it try it. I wouldn't recommend it with a bunch of other anabolics as I am, reason being I can't tell what is doing what.
@Thinkbig - Thank you! Yes, the verdict on direct benefits of GH is indeed "still out there" and people should not cling to the notion "GH is the key to youth and gains"
How does one even describes "feeling young again"? Or "better well being feeling"? Or even, in the spirit of this board - "I feel my muscles fuller and harder" (I sense disturbance in the bodybuilding force already...
) What is common above - the word "feel" i.e. personal subjective assessment.
Every discussion board is a family. And... every family have at least one creepy uncle and grumpy old granpa. I tent to think of my self as the latter - after all, I have two grand kids and third is due next week. So, if someone here does not like what I am saying - please attribute to it and disregard.
Let's be hones for a moment. Raise your hand if you have not at least once Googled the string "HGH before after pictures". No one? That's what I thought.
Aside of my scientific research, I did so too and of course, got fascinated by those pictures:
Both - well in their seventies. Both - big proponents of healthy nutrition diet and balanced hormonal levels. Will they live forever - no. Will they die looking and feeling great - damn sure they will.
With that said, lets talk hormones in a bit.
How does one even describes "feeling young again"? Or "better well being feeling"? Or even, in the spirit of this board - "I feel my muscles fuller and harder" (I sense disturbance in the bodybuilding force already...
) What is common above - the word "feel" i.e. personal subjective assessment.Every discussion board is a family. And... every family have at least one creepy uncle and grumpy old granpa. I tent to think of my self as the latter - after all, I have two grand kids and third is due next week. So, if someone here does not like what I am saying - please attribute to it and disregard.
Let's be hones for a moment. Raise your hand if you have not at least once Googled the string "HGH before after pictures". No one? That's what I thought.
Aside of my scientific research, I did so too and of course, got fascinated by those pictures:
Both - well in their seventies. Both - big proponents of healthy nutrition diet and balanced hormonal levels. Will they live forever - no. Will they die looking and feeling great - damn sure they will.
With that said, lets talk hormones in a bit.
As a good member, I have read and read this board long before I registered and made my first (this) post. And I have to tell you - sometimes I am terrified from what I see! Can anyone tell what is wrong with this picture?
Some of you have guessed correctly - the Estradiol level.
Looking the reference range, this must be Quest Labs blood work. Anyway, the range reads: less than or equal to 39 pg/ml. And what do we have here - 6.8 (almost seven times) the maximum normal level in adult male! The amount of female hormones circulation in this member's bloodstream is enormous.
Now, to put his in a context - here is a grossly simplified primer of Testosterone:
With that said, I am not saying the member who posted the above results sings soprano in the church choir, not at all. All I am saying - buyers, beware. Look comprehensive at your test results. Too much is not always good...
This is the place to talk about body fat. "What body fat have to do with hormones, DragoT" you might ask. Well, a lot!
Estrogens (female hormones) are derived from bio available testosterone via enzyme Aromatase, whereas the highest Aromatase receptors are concentrated in the subcutaneous fatty tissue - belly, love handles, breast tissue area. So, more Sub-Q fat percentage, more receptors, more conversation of precious Free T to Estogens.
And... more Estrogens, more fat storage, more receptors - It is a vicious cycle, indeed.
Don't get me wrong - I am looking from "average aging male" prospective. And yet... sadly... we see see more and more young males exhibiting "feminine" characteristics...
Anyway, back to subject. If you, young folks here, ever had the audacity to spent few minutes on pure TRT boards, you will be amazed how important the control of Estrogens (namely Estradiol) is for overall male functions.
To those of you who say "I don't care about it right now" I'd say - Remember you're mortal
In conclusion, reducing body fat percentage while closely monitoring and balancing Estrogens must be the first step of The Quest of seeking the fountain of youth.
The "shredded" look should not be pressured at any cost, chemically in particular. The opposite, however, is true (not that I will say something new), reducing body fat percentage by healthy diet will ultimately lead to it...
Some of you have guessed correctly - the Estradiol level.
Looking the reference range, this must be Quest Labs blood work. Anyway, the range reads: less than or equal to 39 pg/ml. And what do we have here - 6.8 (almost seven times) the maximum normal level in adult male! The amount of female hormones circulation in this member's bloodstream is enormous.
Now, to put his in a context - here is a grossly simplified primer of Testosterone:
- Testosterone, Total is the amount of testosterone circulating in the bloodstream.
- Approximately 98% is bound to SBHG, thus rendered inactive, and excreted from the body
- Approximately (in average) only 2% is active (bio available) i.e. available for conversion to other, more potent hormones like DHT and Estrogen.
With that said, I am not saying the member who posted the above results sings soprano in the church choir, not at all. All I am saying - buyers, beware. Look comprehensive at your test results. Too much is not always good...
This is the place to talk about body fat. "What body fat have to do with hormones, DragoT" you might ask. Well, a lot!
Estrogens (female hormones) are derived from bio available testosterone via enzyme Aromatase, whereas the highest Aromatase receptors are concentrated in the subcutaneous fatty tissue - belly, love handles, breast tissue area. So, more Sub-Q fat percentage, more receptors, more conversation of precious Free T to Estogens.
And... more Estrogens, more fat storage, more receptors - It is a vicious cycle, indeed.
Don't get me wrong - I am looking from "average aging male" prospective. And yet... sadly... we see see more and more young males exhibiting "feminine" characteristics...
Anyway, back to subject. If you, young folks here, ever had the audacity to spent few minutes on pure TRT boards, you will be amazed how important the control of Estrogens (namely Estradiol) is for overall male functions.
To those of you who say "I don't care about it right now" I'd say - Remember you're mortal
In conclusion, reducing body fat percentage while closely monitoring and balancing Estrogens must be the first step of The Quest of seeking the fountain of youth.
The "shredded" look should not be pressured at any cost, chemically in particular. The opposite, however, is true (not that I will say something new), reducing body fat percentage by healthy diet will ultimately lead to it...
...and because is Sunday, and I have nothing better to do, but mainly because God created man with two types of fat, let's get over with this subject...
If Sub-Q type of fat makes us "looking fluffy", "looking fat", and at some point "unattractive", the "other" type of fat is what kills us - the visceral fat. Yeah, that butch. The fat that is hiding in the abdomen, surrounding, or shall I say in some cases, squeezing the liver, pancreas, intestines etc. High percent of visceral fat is proven to cause many negative effects on the body functions. Primarily... researchers have found that visceral secretes a protein called retinol-binding protein 4 (RBP4) which has been shown to increase resistance to insulin. Ha, severely overweight person with diabetes, like we never heard this before...
Again, I am not saying anything new. This board is an excellent storage of knowledge and personal experience and I am just putting mine on the record, that's all.
Occasionally I'd participate in a another board dedicated to Man's health (TRT) exclusively. So, one day I proudly share a lab work showing my Total and Free T exactly where I want to be and my IGF-1 level claiming. I am like "see what HGH did for me as well"? Got the cold shower right in the next 5 min - "Dude, don't waste money on HGH, raising T levels raises IGF-1 alone..." Somewhat - I'd agree, can doubling IGF-1 levels in only four months on TRT alone - no, no way.
See, for "couch potato" I was before May 2016, raising (in bodybuilding terms) or balancing (in mine) T levels lead to such surge of energy that I had to sign up for the gym and be there every week day, twice on Saturday and Sunday just so I will not burst in flames in act of spontaneous combustion. So yes, the HIT and weight lifting did contribute to some surge of HGH production (this fact is scientifically proven) but this much - I doubt it.
Bottom line, balancing hormonal levels it late stage of one's life should not be the only and/or primary objective. Just happened that in my life experience I took The Quest attacking all fronts at the same time. Because of that, I cannot say "what did what" for me.
My LDL always been 12-15 points above the reference range. Always, until now, nine months on The Quest. Lab work from the beginning of this month shows LDL only 2 point above - 101 (0-99 ng/dl). Again, can one say which of the those - diet, exercise, TRT or HGH did that?
Presently I've watched documentary about Craig Titus on TV. I am sure this guy would be considered overweight (before prison sentence anyway) based on his BMI, since BMI does not distinguish between lean mass weight and total weight (lean mass plus fat). But... I am damn sure his body fat was well below 10% in his best days on the stage. Yet someone with high body fat percentage could be considered "normal" from BMI prospective if little lean mass is presented, and total weight is within "normal" range.
In conclusion, reduction of both Sub-Q and Visceral fat is critical first step of seek of "fountain of youth".
If Sub-Q type of fat makes us "looking fluffy", "looking fat", and at some point "unattractive", the "other" type of fat is what kills us - the visceral fat. Yeah, that butch. The fat that is hiding in the abdomen, surrounding, or shall I say in some cases, squeezing the liver, pancreas, intestines etc. High percent of visceral fat is proven to cause many negative effects on the body functions. Primarily... researchers have found that visceral secretes a protein called retinol-binding protein 4 (RBP4) which has been shown to increase resistance to insulin. Ha, severely overweight person with diabetes, like we never heard this before...
Again, I am not saying anything new. This board is an excellent storage of knowledge and personal experience and I am just putting mine on the record, that's all.
Occasionally I'd participate in a another board dedicated to Man's health (TRT) exclusively. So, one day I proudly share a lab work showing my Total and Free T exactly where I want to be and my IGF-1 level claiming. I am like "see what HGH did for me as well"? Got the cold shower right in the next 5 min - "Dude, don't waste money on HGH, raising T levels raises IGF-1 alone..." Somewhat - I'd agree, can doubling IGF-1 levels in only four months on TRT alone - no, no way.
See, for "couch potato" I was before May 2016, raising (in bodybuilding terms) or balancing (in mine) T levels lead to such surge of energy that I had to sign up for the gym and be there every week day, twice on Saturday and Sunday just so I will not burst in flames in act of spontaneous combustion. So yes, the HIT and weight lifting did contribute to some surge of HGH production (this fact is scientifically proven) but this much - I doubt it.
Bottom line, balancing hormonal levels it late stage of one's life should not be the only and/or primary objective. Just happened that in my life experience I took The Quest attacking all fronts at the same time. Because of that, I cannot say "what did what" for me.
My LDL always been 12-15 points above the reference range. Always, until now, nine months on The Quest. Lab work from the beginning of this month shows LDL only 2 point above - 101 (0-99 ng/dl). Again, can one say which of the those - diet, exercise, TRT or HGH did that?
Presently I've watched documentary about Craig Titus on TV. I am sure this guy would be considered overweight (before prison sentence anyway) based on his BMI, since BMI does not distinguish between lean mass weight and total weight (lean mass plus fat). But... I am damn sure his body fat was well below 10% in his best days on the stage. Yet someone with high body fat percentage could be considered "normal" from BMI prospective if little lean mass is presented, and total weight is within "normal" range.
In conclusion, reduction of both Sub-Q and Visceral fat is critical first step of seek of "fountain of youth".
As a good member, I have read and read this board long before I registered and made my first (this) post. And I have to tell you - sometimes I am terrified from what I see! Can anyone tell what is wrong with this picture?
View attachment 65600
Some of you have guessed correctly - the Estradiol level.
Looking the reference range, this must be Quest Labs blood work. Anyway, the range reads: less than or equal to 39 pg/ml. And what do we have here - 6.8 (almost seven times) the maximum normal level in adult male! The amount of female hormones circulation in this member's bloodstream is enormous.
Now, to put his in a context - here is a grossly simplified primer of Testosterone:
I have not researched the effect of DHT on muscle growth, but know for sure one of the most important function of DHT is to act as Estrogen Antagonist. Without DHT, we, the male portion of the human population, would have become the wet dream of the feminist movement - cuddling on the couch with our better half watching Hallmark channel in awaiting of the next Oprah show, and doing the dishes in between...
- Testosterone, Total is the amount of testosterone circulating in the bloodstream.
- Approximately 98% is bound to SBHG, thus rendered inactive, and excreted from the body
- Approximately (in average) only 2% is active (bio available) i.e. available for conversion to other, more potent hormones like DHT and Estrogen.
With that said, I am not saying the member who posted the above results sings soprano in the church choir, not at all. All I am saying - buyers, beware. Look comprehensive at your test results. Too much is not always good...
This is the place to talk about body fat. "What body fat have to do with hormones, DragoT" you might ask. Well, a lot!
Estrogens (female hormones) are derived from bio available testosterone via enzyme Aromatase, whereas the highest Aromatase receptors are concentrated in the subcutaneous fatty tissue - belly, love handles, breast tissue area. So, more Sub-Q fat percentage, more receptors, more conversation of precious Free T to Estogens.
And... more Estrogens, more fat storage, more receptors - It is a vicious cycle, indeed.
Don't get me wrong - I am looking from "average aging male" prospective. And yet... sadly... we see see more and more young males exhibiting "feminine" characteristics...
Anyway, back to subject. If you, young folks here, ever had the audacity to spent few minutes on pure TRT boards, you will be amazed how important the control of Estrogens (namely Estradiol) is for overall male functions.
To those of you who say "I don't care about it right now" I'd say - Remember you're mortal
In conclusion, reducing body fat percentage while closely monitoring and balancing Estrogens must be the first step of The Quest of seeking the fountain of youth.
The "shredded" look should not be pressured at any cost, chemically in particular. The opposite, however, is true (not that I will say something new), reducing body fat percentage by healthy diet will ultimately lead to it...
What compounds are you taking?
Test, deca, etc? What are you taking?
I am simply stating the fact as I see it on the posted lab work.
The compounds with which said levels were achieved are irreverent, in my opinion. Yes, this is Estradiol (not E2 Sensitive) so the number will be little high, but almost 7 times?
There are still things I don't understand from bodybuilding prospective (I am trying hard, trust me), but isn't the simplest explanation most probable?
Free T level is not shown, but I will take it is well above "normal" we well. So, if Aromase Inhibitor was taken during the cycle, two goals would have been achieved:
The compounds with which said levels were achieved are irreverent, in my opinion. Yes, this is Estradiol (not E2 Sensitive) so the number will be little high, but almost 7 times?
There are still things I don't understand from bodybuilding prospective (I am trying hard, trust me), but isn't the simplest explanation most probable?
Free T level is not shown, but I will take it is well above "normal" we well. So, if Aromase Inhibitor was taken during the cycle, two goals would have been achieved:
- Keep Estradiol within reference range (unless there is evidence Estradiol is effective for building muscle mass)
- By taking AI, which will bind to Aromatase receptors, more Free T will be available for T to DHT conversion and in general for more adventitious utilization of the bio available Testosterone.
Not if you're using a 19-nor derived compound... Your E2 might be skewed if you are using deca or something.
I mention it because your test to estro ratio seems off.
@Eman
I see your point. I should not have used this particular blood work (since Free T was nor shown) and I've made an assumption. Just... seemed like a nice transition to the body fat section I was getting ready to talk about.
So, what you're saying is - 19-nor derivatives (masteron, tren, etc) would show elevated Total and Free T and the same time will be "immune" or better said "resistant" to Estrogen conversion?
I see your point. I should not have used this particular blood work (since Free T was nor shown) and I've made an assumption. Just... seemed like a nice transition to the body fat section I was getting ready to talk about.
So, what you're saying is - 19-nor derivatives (masteron, tren, etc) would show elevated Total and Free T and the same time will be "immune" or better said "resistant" to Estrogen conversion?
Vita
Member
Let's be hones for a moment. Raise your hand if you have not at least once Googled the string "HGH before after pictures". No one? That's what I thought.
Wow is Susan ever looking good, unless that's not Susan then never mind old guy here fading memory and all.
So what I am interested in is your experience, and practices. Like how often do you take your injections, morning or night or both. How long after eating, how much, do you up it while running gear, you know that sort of information.
As far as looking at pictures, of before and after, for me at least it's not helpful, unless there is data that goes with them. Ok looking at Susan was probably helpful for something but not for gaining any knowledge on hGh. lol
No I'm saying 19nors will show an elevated estro on some tests.
If you're taking a 19nor you probably don't have that high of an estro level. It made sense to be because that's a pretty high estro level for not very much testosterone. You may just aromatize heavily.
I thought everyone knows Susan's story. My bad. suzanne somers hgh - YouTube
As for my regimen... I will continue tomorrow. I am (almost) positive something is OFF with my regimen, and will ask for advice once I lay it down.
As for my regimen... I will continue tomorrow. I am (almost) positive something is OFF with my regimen, and will ask for advice once I lay it down.
@Eman - I am referring to this thread Blood work including IGF on PD's Greys (something I should have done from the beginning.) @fodsod nailed it! (on the AI subject).
Tell that to Sylvester Stallone , haha
I contacted a legit anti aging clinic and the cost of just using 10iu a week is $1200 a month through them!!!I decided to start this thread with specific purpose of having dedicated space for discussion about anti-aging properties of Human Growth Hormone and related peptides over health and quality of life of people past their prime (50 and older). Let's for once restrain from talking about top color, sources and prices and rather share personal experiences and stories.
Let's see what happens, shall we?
D
ironwill1951
New Member
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