Steroid Profile Equipoise

[Type-IIx]

To do the math for anyone reading/caring:

The estrone (E1) result associated with the user from the Help! Primo/EQ Crashed my E2... article using EQ (800 mg) + Tren (600 mg) + Test (300 mg) in pg/mL units = 365.6 pg/mL

The degreee of cross-reactivity in @fike's "nonsensitive" E2 assay between E1 & E2 = 0.54%

0.54% * 365.6 pg/mL = 1.925 pg/mL, or 1.6% of fike's 114 pg/mL E2 result.

Further, given fike's experiencing classical estrogenic symptoms, we can rule out E1's contribution, since it is a mere 2% as potent as E2 at activating ERα, requiring 50-fold greater concentrations than that at which E2 causes these symptoms in men.

 

[fike]

If I were to add anything to Primobolan / Equipoise Crashed my E2 – Help! - MESO-Rx

It would be to bolster the (apparently controversial) evidence that EQ tends to increase E2.

I appreciate you

To do the math for anyone reading/caring:

The estrone (E1) result associated with the user from the Help! Primo/EQ Crashed my E2... article using EQ (800 mg) + Tren (600 mg) + Test (300 mg) in pg/mL units = 365.6 pg/mL

The degreee of cross-reactivity in @fike's "nonsensitive" E2 assay between E1 & E2 = 0.54%

0.54% * 365.6 pg/mL = 1.925 pg/mL, or 1.6% of fike's 114 pg/mL E2 result.

Further, given fike's experiencing classical estrogenic symptoms, we can rule out E1's contribution, since it is a mere 2% as potent as E2 at activating ERα, requiring 50-fold greater concentrations than that at which E2 causes these symptoms in men.

@Type-IIx I care mainly for the sake of the science and in hopes that your extensive knowledge on the subject may help people see past their preconceived notions about how a compound MUST affect a person. Also, I wanted to let you no what you stated in your last post about my blood work was correct. There was no Trenbolone or any other her substance that would have caused a false positive high estrogen reading in my system at the time.

I didn't reply when Pete started in earlier in the conversation for the simple fact that no matter what I said, I felt like it would have just been lost time for me. In no way am I saying that Pete is a bad guy for disagreeing with anything, I just don’t feel like anything I can say will make him, as well as many others, entertain the idea that there may be an error in the way they are looking at topic. It bothers me when some people can’t get past their pride and even begin to admit they they may even be a little bit wrong, because I don’t feel like you’r all the way wrong. In my case, I seem to be an exception to the norm. It’s not that outlandish to believe there are going to be outliers that don’t fit the very anecdotal mold of people that use AASs. Pete, I really am not trying to bash you or anyone else here. That’s not how I operate, but what I don’t understand is why it’s such a hard thing to believe when there is science that backs it as being subject to aramatose, albeit not to the degree of testosterone?

Something inside my body converts this compound to E2 at a high level. I am actually running some EQ right now, I just started it. 2 weeks ago. If I knew the combination of EQ, test, and HCG wouldn’t put my estradiol through the roof and make me gain 20 lbs of water and make my nips sensitive I’d run it without the AI just to show a repeat lab report, but I’m not going to do that, because I know what will happen. I’ll get labs done soon enough though while dialing in my AI and I will report back, but until then, y’all try to be open minded about things. Don’t let’s the AASs get your prides and ego out of whack. It’s okay to admit you may not have all the answers.

 

[29trt]

Maybe. Probably not. Estrogens are usually associated with reduced acnea, androgens the opposite. When most women initiate hormonal birth control most see improved symptoms. Of course, hormones have unclear effects on it.

In females maybe.... but every time I let estrogen get high on cycle I get pimples on shoulders... when I start arimidex they go away.... might there be some other mechanism through which arimidex would do this?

 

[Type-IIx]

In females maybe.... but every time I let estrogen get high on cycle I get pimples on shoulders... when I start arimidex they go away.... might there be some other mechanism through which arimidex would do this?

I frankly just don't know. The dermatological aspects of AAS/estrogens aren't something I invest a lot of time thinking about. My impression is that the association between acne and hormonal status is best described as capricious.

 

[Avarice911]

Myself and a lot of others even to get an increase in acne from simply a large alteration in hormones. I can titrate slowly with no effect but if I jump doses, I get a few cystic suckers on my arms

 

[Nilatac]

Maybe it will help someone


View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CvH2oSbg8pQ/?igshid=MmU2YjMzNjRlOQ%3D%3D

 

[lukiss96]

I feel I'm the only one not getting any estrogen supression from Equipoise, no matter the dose or ratio.

I feel good on it, second best injectable for me overall after Testosterone.

 

[fike]

I feel I'm the only one not getting any estrogen supression from Equipoise, no matter the dose or ratio.

I feel good on it, second best injectable for me overall after Testosterone.

Na, bud. I'm with you. I'm running 500 mg EQ right now with .125 arimidex twice weekly in conjunction with 300 mg Test, 400 Primo, and 500 IU HCG EOD, and my E2 is lower 30's. I'm going to drop the arimidex though. I'd like my E2 a little higher. I believe the primo will keep mine where it needs to be at.

 

[lukiss96]

Na, bud. I'm with you. I'm running 500 mg EQ right now with .125 arimidex twice weekly in conjunction with 300 mg Test, 400 Primo, and 500 IU HCG EOD, and my E2 is lower 30's. I'm going to drop the arimidex though. I'd like my E2 a little higher. I believe the primo will keep mine where it needs to be at.

Cool good to know, never tried primo so I can't say anything on it.

 

[lukiss96]

My most recent experiment included EQ at 250mg + 250mg TU (Test undec).

I enjoyed the moderate blast, nice cosmetic effect from equipoise and I was able to recomp kinda. Eating same caloried I lost fat and some weight, looking better. Strength was good. Almost no side effects. Even less need for anastrozole. Felt good. Overall I liked it a lot. Will repeat in summer 300/300 possibly.

 

[fike]

So, here are a few insights I’m finding out about my estrogen conversion from my current 600 mg EQ run. Also running a 500 mg Test, and 400 mg Proviron and 500 iu HCG EOD. Also running .5 Adex because I knew I would be having some estrogenic sides. I got the lab to run both a roche and sensitive test this go around and check out how it came back. Low E2 and what I assume to be high E1. I’m honestly not sure what I should do. I am having some estrogenic symptoms. That last estradiol from May was when I was on EQ as well

Anyone have any theories or suggestions they want to throw out there?

 

[GuerillaPete]

So, here are a few insights I’m finding out about my estrogen conversion from my current 600 mg EQ run. Also running a 500 mg Test, and 400 mg Proviron and 500 iu HCG EOD. Also running .5 Adex because I knew I would be having some estrogenic sides. I got the lab to run both a roche and sensitive test this go around and check out how it came back. Low E2 and what I assume to be high E1. I’m honestly not sure what I should do. I am having some estrogenic symptoms. That last estradiol from May was when I was on EQ as well

Anyone have any theories or suggestions they want to throw out there?

So what was is saying?
Do a sensitive estrone also to be sure

 

[fike]

So what was is saying?
Do a sensitive estrone also to be sure

Let’s just presume to be with fair certainty that’s it’s high e1 at this point since another estrogen test will be another week. Let’s just go ahead and assume the probable. We have eliminated High e2 as the culprit in my situation. Could be E1(most probable), possibly E3 or E4, but doubtful. Other than bonding the cycle. The treatment from what I can see from almost every direction is still treat with an AI until symptoms are manageable. Does that seem like the reasonable thing to do? @Type-IIx, @malfeasance, do y’all care to chime in since y'all have gotten in on the conversation before?

 

[GuerillaPete]

Let’s just presume to be with fair certainty that’s it’s high e1 at this point since another estrogen test will be another week. Let’s just go ahead and assume the probable. We have eliminated High e2 as the culprit in my situation. Could be E1(most probable), possibly E3 or E4, but doubtful. Other than bonding the cycle. The treatment from what I can see from almost every direction is still treat with an AI until symptoms are manageable. Does that seem like the reasonable thing to do? @Type-IIx, @malfeasance, do y’all care to chime in since y'all have gotten in on the conversation before?

Spoiler alert its not high e1
Its like dbol you can have high estrogen symptoms without it being caused by e2,e1
But whatever you guys will figure it out eventually.
Just make sure e1 is ultra sensitive test also.

 

[fike]

Spoiler alert its not high e1
Its like dbol you can have high estrogen symptoms without it being caused by e2,e1
But whatever you guys will figure it out eventually.
Just make sure e1 is ultra sensitive test also.

Very constructive answer, Pete. Thank you.

 

[Type-IIx]

Let’s just presume to be with fair certainty that’s it’s high e1 at this point since another estrogen test will be another week. Let’s just go ahead and assume the probable. We have eliminated High e2 as the culprit in my situation. Could be E1(most probable), possibly E3 or E4, but doubtful. Other than bonding the cycle. The treatment from what I can see from almost every direction is still treat with an AI until symptoms are manageable. Does that seem like the reasonable thing to do? @Type-IIx, @malfeasance, do y’all care to chime in since y'all have gotten in on the conversation before?

If you are experiencing symptoms of estrogenicity (effects associated with ER-α activation), then an AI is a perfectly reasonable treatment, including for high E1, yes. What are the symptoms associated with high estrogens that you are experiencing?

 

[fike]

If you are experiencing symptoms of estrogenicity (effects associated with ER-α activation), then an AI is a perfectly reasonable treatment, including for high E1, yes. What are the symptoms associated with high estrogens that you are experiencing?

Thanks for replying. Water retention, low energy, and mood shifts mainly and definitely not the manly aggressive types of Mood shifts. More like the “my wife just turned into a crazy person out of nowhere” type of mood shit. Sex drive seems to be down a bit as well. Granted all this being said, we just lost our baby girl at the 12 week pregnancy mark around a month ago which hit both of us pretty hard and can probably have some effects on things with grieving.

No itchy nips or anything gyno related tho. The emotional stuff is definitely not enjoyable. SHBG is always on the low side at 7-10 nmol/l since starting TRT years ago, so it’s not abnormal for my E2 to match that, range even if that’s not where I feel the best.

You confirmed what I thought what I thought a reasonable choice might be and I am open to other suggestions if others have an idea.

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks for replying. Water retention, low energy, and mood shifts mainly and definitely not the manly aggressive types of Mood shifts. More like the “my wife just turned into a crazy person out of nowhere” type of mood shit. Sex drive seems to be down a bit as well. Granted all this being said, we just lost our baby girl at the 12 week pregnancy mark around a month ago which hit both of us pretty hard and can probably have some effects on things with grieving.

No itchy nips or anything gyno related tho. The emotional stuff is definitely not enjoyable. SHBG is always on the low side at 7-10 nmol/l since starting TRT years ago, so it’s not abnormal for my E2 to match that, range even if that’s not where I feel the best.

You confirmed what I thought what I thought a reasonable choice might be and I am open to other suggestions if others have an idea.

Sorry for your loss brother, that is a painful thing to have to experience.

You are experiencing some symptoms that are associated with high estrogens but not the sort of sine qua non one: sensitive nipples. However, this symptom is prone to false positives because of guys obsessively touching them, provoking the very symptom by their paranoia.

Your E2 is lower 30s pg/mL (American units) is it?

It's very borderline.

Additional AI might help or might just be unnecessary. Am I correct that you're already using anastrozole? Then, you might adjust dose is all.

No clear-cut answers here, quite the opposite. But yes, with these estradiol concentrations & assuming all of the above is correct, also having high estrone blood concentrations (note that it is a mere 2% as potent per-pg vs. E2 at activating ER-α) can certainly tip you into experiencing symptoms of high estrogens.

 

[fike]

Sorry for your loss brother, that is a painful thing to have to experience.

You are experiencing some symptoms that are associated with high estrogens but not the sort of sine qua non one: sensitive nipples. However, this symptom is prone to false positives because of guys obsessively touching them, provoking the very symptom by their paranoia.

Your E2 is lower 30s pg/mL (American units) is it?

It's very borderline.

Additional AI might help or might just be unnecessary. Am I correct that you're already using anastrozole? Then, you might adjust dose is all.

No clear-cut answers here, quite the opposite. But yes, with these estradiol concentrations & assuming all of the above is correct, also having high estrone blood concentrations (note that it is a mere 2% as potent per-pg vs. E2 at activating ER-α) can certainly tip you into experiencing symptoms of high estrogens.

Yes, I learned to leave the nips alone a long time ago. My wife an and youngest daughter both have a fetish thing for rubbing my ears and my nipples. Haha. It was hard to break them of the habit of touching my nipples. I still give them my ears, but the nips are off limits.

So, I think moving forward that I’ll adjust my anastrozole dosage by ,25 mg twice per week for a few weeks and see how I feel and repeat bloods in a month. At which point, depending on price of test, I will run a sensitive E1 to go along with everything else to see how things look. Seem reasonable?

 

[Type-IIx]

Yes, I learned to leave the nips alone a long time ago. My wife an and youngest daughter both have a fetish thing for rubbing my ears and my nipples. Haha. It was hard to break them of the habit of touching my nipples. I still give them my ears, but the nips are off limits.

So, I think moving forward that I’ll adjust my anastrozole dosage by ,25 mg twice per week for a few weeks and see how I feel and repeat bloods in a month. At which point, depending on price of test, I will run a sensitive E1 to go along with everything else to see how things look. Seem reasonable?

Yes, it seems reasonable.