Reading now. Thanks for link @Millard and the write up @Type-IIx. I've seen lots of discussions over multiple forums over this with the usual degradation into arguments and no useful interpretations/conclusions because some people think only they have the right answer and everyone else is ignorant.Thank you for sharing! Did you have any noticeable high estrogen symptoms? Or did you experience low estrogen symptoms contrary to the lab test results? Or nothing at all?
I don't know if you've seen it yet but MESO recently published a comprehensive thesis by @Type-IIx seeking to explain the low estrogen symptoms many users have experiencing when adding Equipoise (or Primobolan) to their cycles/stacks: He incorporated a lot labs that users submitted on MESO and other forums.
Primobolan / Equipoise Crashed my E2 – Help!
Understand the complex interaction of Primobolan and Equipoise with estrogen levels, symptoms of low estrogens, and practical decision-making strategies for managing these effects in AAS users.thinksteroids.com
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fike
Member
I was definitely holding a crap ton of what, so my otherwise normal BP shit up quite a bit. I remember my nipples began to get a little sensitive to the touch against my shirt, and I had some issues with making it all the way to orgasm during sex. Other than that, I was all good. Erections were still strong and I never got bitchy or anything. Other than the added weight and sensitive nipples, I actually felt good on it. The added AI took care of all that and I shedded the water weight and looked pretty damn solid.
I saw @Type-IIx's post, but what he and seemingly most other users of this compound describe just wasn't the case for me. The gear was good and came from a very reliable resource with plenty of testing. There was absolutely no low E2 symptoms present in my cycle or blood work, though. It's seems as I could almost run it solo as a TRT because I do seem to get plenty of estrogenic support from this compound. It almost kind of seems that if I dropped it to 200 mg per week, I could run it as TRT. I'm not going to try this, but I don't think it's too far fetched of an idea that it could be done in some people.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
EQ is subject to diverse between-user effects (inter-individual variation), including high & low estrogenicity, that depends on factors like binding hormone expression, 17β-HSD expression, and aromatase expression. Primo more straightforwardly exerts tissue-level antiestrogenic effects. These effects can sometimes be dissociated from bloodwork values. Bloodwork reflects the, well, blood compartment and is a proxy for endocrine activity, that may not reflect the tissue compartments (intracrine activity); there is certaintly dissociation between local aromatase activity and blood estradiol.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
Two questions for you:
First, is the assay used for estradiol sensitive or ultrasensitive?
Second, is it correct that this bloodwork reflects no AI use?
fike
Member
Thanks for your reply, sir. I enjoy reading your posts. A lot is very dense and over my head, but I like taking in what I can grasp.
Firstly, I’m not sure about the the assay used. All I see in the comments is Roche ECLIA methodology. It is not marked as sensitive.
Next, yes, sir. It is correct that no AI was being used. I will also add that I was using 250 IUs every other day. Estradiol levels on 200 mg per week test cyp plus the 250 IUs of HCG every other day never gave an E2 level higher than 40 in the past with no use of an AI. That’s been over three years of continuous use.
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Type-IIx
Well-known Member
Thank you, this is good data of increased E2 (symptomatic to boot) by EQ.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
It does make me wonder if his EQ was something else, though.
Avarice911
Well-known Member
That’s the first thing I thought too. It’s not unheard of to get test instead of eq
fike
Member
Highly doubt it. Came from a tested batch from a highly reliable source with an impeccable track record.
fike
Member
I thought I stated earlier or elsewhere, but maybe not, my E2 has never gone out of range, even when running 500 mg test per week. It could have been something else, but I'm not sure what would get my E2 that high. I wouldn't think EQ would when test doesn't, but I don't know.
I've just never had a problem with E2 running any other compound.
fike
Member
Any ideas on what could cause a false high reading like that?
Avarice911
Well-known Member
Was there anything residual that could’ve been in your system from a previous blast or something? Also not sure but could roche eclia (vs ultra sensitive) pickup e1 increase caused by the eq?
fike
Member
I will have to look back through my logs to verify, but, I want to say no. I think the only thing with a long ester that could have stuck around would have been deca that I was running at around 300 mg around a month before and reduced down to 100 mg per week. I reduced down to 100 mg because I wanted to run a little bit of tren along with the EQ cycle. That's why I got the labs done. As for the tests, I can't answer that question. Maybe type-II, Millard, or someone else would know.
malfeasance
Well-known Member
Tren can show as e2, depending upon which test you run. I cannot tell if you were running trenbolone or not, the way your post is worded.
fike
Member
Sorry for the wording. I was not running it at the time, but I was getting ready to add it into my cycle depending on how my labs came back.
I ended up dropping the EQ and adding in the tren and my E2 actually came back into the reference range...but then my prolactin went out of range a bit, but nothing to where sides were bad.
Type-IIx
Well-known Member
Why? Because of increased E2? Any assumption that this is abnormal is simply incorrect.
fike
Member
This was as I said.
musclesiege
Member
Ok so I got bloods done 8 weeks ago on cruise of 220mg test c per week, e2 was 120. Got bloods back today on 450mg test c, 200mg deca, 400mg EQ and e2 was 41.
Avarice911
Well-known Member
Wow huge difference. Your e2 on 220mg is sky high tho. I take it you aromatize a ton?
fike
Member
You seem to be the among the norm concerning the topic at hand. Your cruise E2 is definitely sky high, though. That's the range where EQ paired with test and HCG puts me without an AI. Having my E2 at 40 is where I feel my best at. I'm not holding too much water, but just enough where my joints feel good. Getting E2 dialed in is a headache for me most of the time unless I'm simply running a cruise dose.
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