Hangin_Low
New Member
Vigorous Steve recently mentioned this article in his podcast, but I had deleted the article already on original website. I am posting it here for this community instead, thank you and be safe - HL
View: https://youtu.be/Voth80ASIG8?t=2688
Shout out to Vigorous Steve for mentioning this article in his podcast, give him a follow!!
By: HanginLow
Boldenone Undecylenate (EQ) has as much bro lore surrounding it as any other AAS. Fateful EQ users claim it produces spider vein vascularity, raging hunger and lean dry gains. While EQ might produce some of these effects, it also has a well-documented history of renal toxicity. In practicality, EQ is an add-on to most cycles and not the focus because of the relative weak anabolic nature of the drug. When we delve deeper, we find there is significant evidence to classify EQ as much more toxic than other injectable AAS and unusable in any scenario in my opinion.
EQ is a derivative of testosterone and shares all the characteristics of its parent compound. Chemically, it is testosterone with a double bond between the C1 and C2 positions.
History
Boldenone Undecylenate was first produced by CIBA in the late 1960s under the name “Parenabol” in 50mg/ml concentration. It was sparsely used in the treatment of Osteoporosis with 25-50mg every 2 weeks for 2-6 months being the standard (https://tinyurl.com/3uev8p3x). It was discontinued in the early 1970’s as doctors shifted away from using AAS to treat Osteoporosis. The rights to the drug was bought by Squibb and turned into a veterinary grade growth promoting drug, named “Equipose”. Treatment was 0.5mg per Lb of bodyweight every 2 to 3 weeks for debilitated horses. That means your average 1000lb horse would receive 500mg every 2 to 3 weeks. It was shortly after this that athletes started using EQ off label for performance enhancement.
Toxicity – Renal
Boldenone has a nasty reputation for impacting renal function in published medical literature. The purpose of this section is to explore the possible renal toxicity of Boldenone in comparison to testosterone. We start in animal models.
My next question is “Well is this more or less than testosterone would produce in these animal models?”. Testosterone relationship with renal health is well studied in chronic kidney disease and gives us some useable data. Testosterone deficiency is a common feature of failing kidneys and testosterone production is suppressed by multiple causes linked to loss of kidney function. Up to two thirds of End Stage Renal Disease patients have low testosterone levels and TRT has been shown to improve sexual function, muscle mass and bone mineral density. Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) is Associated with Delayed Progression of Chronic Kidney Disease: A Retrospective Analysis of Testosterone Normalization in US Veterans
It makes sense that TRT (100-200mg a week) would increase renal function and quality of life in people with low testosterone, but what about supraphysiological doses of test equivalent to the EQ animal models we have seen? Unfortunately, we do not have a head-to-head that I could find, but we do have some data.
Increased RBC Count / Erythropoiesis (EPO)
Something else I will hear is that EQ can make you “vascular” by increasing Red Blood Cell count and subsequently hematocrit and hemoglobin. This is baffling to me, as this is a side effect from all androgens we are trying to avoid. When working with clients I find keeping RBCs in range to be a very common problem. I know there are many who will say androgen induced EPO has not been linked with any heath problems, but with the clotting and heart stuff going around, I like to keep that parameter in range or very close. Making your blood thick is not going to increase anabolism and will likely increase BP and subsequent systemic oxidative stress. Even if you are an endurance athlete specifically looking for this RBC boosting effect, EQ is likely not the best at it. Before synthetic EPO became available, androgens were the most effective agents available for treating the anemia of renal failure. Nandrolone decanoate (Deca) became the androgen of choice for treating anemia because it enables patients to achieve the greatest hematocrit response with the least side effects compared to other androgens studied and approved at that time. https://tinyurl.com/2kuvv9c6 There are even studies showing nandrolone to be as effective as recombinant EPO at increasing RBC in patients on dialysis. However, the use of androgens for the treatment of anemia in CKD patients has been stopped because of inconsistent erythropoietic response, side effects (BP rises) and the availability of recombinant EPO as a more effective and safer agent. And if you want to get more vascular, you can do that without drugs, by doing a damn calorie restricted diet and getting lean you lazy piece of shit.
Increased Appetite
I cannot tell you how many times I have been told that the 600mg EQ in someone’s cycle is “for appetite”. No other anabolic steroid has been associated with increased appetite, so it always confused me why this was the case for EQ. We do find very limited mention of it in the animal models; “Ingestive behavior was significantly affected by administration of EQ, where the frequency times of eating and drinking was significantly higher in treated groups than control. The frequency of caecotrophy (self poop eating) in group (B1) was significantly higher than the control group and not different in comparison to group (B2). This may be due to promotion of body tissue building through protein synthesis indirectly via stimulation of growth hormone, insulin like growth factor secretion and animal appetite (Ferreira et al. 1998).” https://tinyurl.com/2p8w3z6x This is the only evidence I could find between EQ and increasing appetite. If the pathway described above is accurate, then all AAS would induce increases in appetite which I anecdotally have found to be true but not very significant. This effect is not reliable, it has no known mechanism and is attached to a toxic hormone. If you actually want to crank your appetite up use GHRP6 or MK677, they work directly on ghrelin (the "hunger" hormone).
Toxicity – Carcinogen
Boldenone and its metabolites; 17b-T, 17b-Bol and other related substances are under investigation with animal experiments by laboratories for carcinogenic potential. Like the other androgenic steroids, 17b-Bol is classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as a probable human carcinogen, with a carcinogenicity index higher than that of other androgens, such as nandrolone, stanozolol, testosterone and clostebol. A recent study has also demonstrated the role of 17a-Bol in the development of human prostate carcinomas implanted in mice. I was not able to find the specific study showing the head-to-head of all the AAS in a carcinogen model, but it is referenced by many other sources. https://tinyurl.com/msxb4tte I would still take it with a grain of salt.
Possible Reduced Aromatization to Estradiol compared to Testosterone / Anxiety
William Llewellyn famously quoted in his landmark book Anabolics that EQ aromatized about 50% to that of testosterone. This claim was accepted for a long time and is still echoed today but the reality is it might be much less. According to Derek, Boldenone does not aromatize into enough Estradiol, and instead produces a far weaker estrogen (Estrone) with completely different pharmacodynamics. This over conversion to estrone causes estradiol to levels to crash. This is not necessarily positive because of the cardio protective and anabolic nature of estradiol. The protective role of estrogen and estrogen receptors in cardiovascular disease and the controversial use of estrogen therapy MPMD has a deep dive on the subject if you are interested. https://tinyurl.com/ms5x5j9z Also an interesting Eroids post on the subject in agreement with Derek’s hypothesis. https://tinyurl.com/3ksppysa I do want to clarify that this AI effect does not happen to everyone and have seen bloodwork with no crashed estradiol while on heavy doses of EQ. That is why I do not understand people claiming to use it as an AI, unless you have bloodwork to back this up, this is not a reliable effect of EQ. And if you do have bloodwork to back this up, higher estrone levels are associated with a myriad of health risks https://tinyurl.com/3krwpnu9 The theoretic rise in estrone and crash of estradiol might be the mechanism for the infamous "EQ anxiety". If you want to balance your estrogens correctly and safely, use an Aromatase Inhibitor like Exemestane. Here is a study showing it given to women in kidney failure with no deleterious renal effects. https://tinyurl.com/2p99cwfe
Possibly Faked by UGLs
This topic might cause some controversy, but I do not care. I used to be close friends with a local Underground Lab Cook, I would prep him for shows. Over the years he began to tell me insider things involving the underground production of AAS. One of his more shocking claims was that EQ was faked a lot by his fellow sources, himself included. He claimed this is because boldenone raws, do not hold at room temperature, meaning it is semi-liquid not powder like other AAS raws. This means it is shipped in 10-30ml bottles just like what you get from your source, except it is pure EQ. From my understanding, this raw is not drastically more expensive than testosterone, but adds more logistics, and he told me it makes the packages more recognizable by customs. He just used lower dose testosterone as his “EQ 300mg/ml” to get around this shipping issue, but he also told me it was just because EQ was not that popular, and the hassle of the liquid was not worth it - his words. This is information given to me by him and can be left up to your interpretation. His “lab” was not on Eroids and is not around anymore.
Closing thoughts
In the end we have steroid weaker than testosterone, that could crash healthy estradiol levels and is associated with renal toxicity. It does not reliably increase appetite and has no known mechanism for doing so. I think the nail in the coffin is the study involving a small dose of 300mg of EQ drastically increasing renal toxicity in an anabolic stack. https://tinyurl.com/mwukms4c So based on this evidence, I find EQ unsuitable in any situation, as it has no unique characteristics and is less tolerated than other AAS.
Hopefully this causes some interesting conversations, thank you and be safe by friends.
View: https://youtu.be/Voth80ASIG8?t=2688
Shout out to Vigorous Steve for mentioning this article in his podcast, give him a follow!!
Evidence of Renal Toxicity and Ineffectiveness of EQ: Boldenone Undecylenate
By: HanginLow
Boldenone Undecylenate (EQ) has as much bro lore surrounding it as any other AAS. Fateful EQ users claim it produces spider vein vascularity, raging hunger and lean dry gains. While EQ might produce some of these effects, it also has a well-documented history of renal toxicity. In practicality, EQ is an add-on to most cycles and not the focus because of the relative weak anabolic nature of the drug. When we delve deeper, we find there is significant evidence to classify EQ as much more toxic than other injectable AAS and unusable in any scenario in my opinion.
EQ is a derivative of testosterone and shares all the characteristics of its parent compound. Chemically, it is testosterone with a double bond between the C1 and C2 positions.
History
Boldenone Undecylenate was first produced by CIBA in the late 1960s under the name “Parenabol” in 50mg/ml concentration. It was sparsely used in the treatment of Osteoporosis with 25-50mg every 2 weeks for 2-6 months being the standard (https://tinyurl.com/3uev8p3x). It was discontinued in the early 1970’s as doctors shifted away from using AAS to treat Osteoporosis. The rights to the drug was bought by Squibb and turned into a veterinary grade growth promoting drug, named “Equipose”. Treatment was 0.5mg per Lb of bodyweight every 2 to 3 weeks for debilitated horses. That means your average 1000lb horse would receive 500mg every 2 to 3 weeks. It was shortly after this that athletes started using EQ off label for performance enhancement.
Toxicity – Renal
Boldenone has a nasty reputation for impacting renal function in published medical literature. The purpose of this section is to explore the possible renal toxicity of Boldenone in comparison to testosterone. We start in animal models.
- https://tinyurl.com/4nk9dsz5 Deterioration of glomerular endothelial surface layer and the alteration in the renal function after a growth promoter boldenone injection in rabbits
- The aim of the present study was to investigate the possible effect on the renal function and the integrity of the glomerular endothelial surface layer after EQ injection in rabbits.
- Animals of groups 2, 3 and 4 received 1, 2 and 3 intramuscular injections of 5mg/kg bodyweight EQ and dissected after 3, 6 and 9 weeks, respectively
- The results showed a marked alteration in the biochemical parameters and the histological structure of the kidney after different doses of EQ injection. Blood serum showed a significant increase in the total protein, urea and creatinine concentrations but showed a significant decrease in A/G ratio. Histopathological examination elucidated a significant glomerulus mass reduction that accompanied with the widening of the mesangial areas. These changes were adjunct to the severe congestion of the blood vessels and the expression of CD34, a marker for the endothelial cell deterioration. Incidence of glomerulosclerosis also appeared significantly high after EQ injection.
- https://tinyurl.com/ysv8uebr Evaluation of boldenone as a growth promoter in broiler chicks: safety and meat quality aspects
- Boldenone was injected intramuscularly at a single-dose level of 5 mg/kg body weight into 12 broiler chicks at 2 weeks old
- Blood samples were collected after 1, 2, and 3 weeks through the experimental course for hematological and clinic-chemical safety parameters. On the last day, chicks were humanely sacrificed, and livers and kidneys were removed for histopathological examination.
- Kidney and liver biomarkers, including alkaline phosphatase, aspartate aminotransferase, alanine aminotransferase, urea, and creatinine were significantly (p < 0.05) higher than the corresponding control values.
- Degenerative changes were recorded in liver and kidney tissues from chicks treated with boldenone. These data may discourage the use of boldenone as a growth promoter in broilers due to safety and meat quality reasons. (big red flag!)
- Boldenone Undecylenate-Mediated Hepatorenal Impairment by Oxidative Damage and Dysregulation of Heat Shock Protein 90 and Androgen Receptors Expressions: Vitamin C Preventive Role Boldenone Undecylenate-Mediated Hepatorenal Impairment by Oxidative Damage and Dysregulation of Heat Shock Protein 90 and Androgen Receptors Expressions: Vitamin C Preventive Role
- This study investigated the possible preventive activity of Vitamin C against EQ-induced hepatorenal damage.
- EQ intramuscularly injected 5 mg/kg of bw to healthy rats, once a week for 8 weeks
- A significant rise in serum levels of urea, creatinine, and uric acids by 103.01%, 98.19%, 85.45%, respectively, was observed in EQ-injected rats relative to the control ones
- Various nephropathic changes were seen in the EQ-injected animals. These changes involved the glomeruli (hypocellularity, atrophy, necrosis, and sclerosis), tubules (attenuation, vacuolation, pyknosis, single-cell necrosis, and debris and cast formations in their lumens), and the interstitial tissue (congestion, hemorrhage, and inflammatory infiltrates particularly with mononuclear cells). (aka kidney damage!)
My next question is “Well is this more or less than testosterone would produce in these animal models?”. Testosterone relationship with renal health is well studied in chronic kidney disease and gives us some useable data. Testosterone deficiency is a common feature of failing kidneys and testosterone production is suppressed by multiple causes linked to loss of kidney function. Up to two thirds of End Stage Renal Disease patients have low testosterone levels and TRT has been shown to improve sexual function, muscle mass and bone mineral density. Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) is Associated with Delayed Progression of Chronic Kidney Disease: A Retrospective Analysis of Testosterone Normalization in US Veterans
It makes sense that TRT (100-200mg a week) would increase renal function and quality of life in people with low testosterone, but what about supraphysiological doses of test equivalent to the EQ animal models we have seen? Unfortunately, we do not have a head-to-head that I could find, but we do have some data.
- https://tinyurl.com/y3hd64sm (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-29023-3) Amelioratory Effects of Testosterone Propionate on Age-related Renal Fibrosis via Suppression of TGF-β1/Smad Signaling and Activation of Nrf2-ARE Signaling
- Structure of the study is studying aged male Wistar rats after subcutaneous testosterone propionate (2 mg/kg/d, 84-day) injection. That is 2mg per kg so 200mg for 100kg (220lbs) Male PER DAY, a hefty dose.
- Structural changes and declined in renal function due to age were significantly improved in rats following TP injections. This study must be taken with a grain of salt as it was done on aged rats, but the fact that renal function was improved on that high of a dose has some merit and was no reflected in the EQ studies.
- https://tinyurl.com/3jr8pxmk Testosterone Phenyl-Propionate: Androgen Trials
- Six young rabbits weighing approximately 1,300g were used. Four of these (2male, 2 female) were injected subcutaneously with 30.5 mg of TPP three times weekly for four weeks.
- That Is 30.5mg x 3 so around 91.5mg a week of phenyl-propionate which would produce TRT levels of testosterone in some adult males, was given to a 3lb rabbits.
- Organs were autopsied after for histological changes, including the kidney. There were no detectable pathological changes in other tissues examined (myocardium, lung, intestine, pancreas, liver, kidney).
- Prolonged Injections of Male Sex Hormones Prolonged Injections of male sex hormones into normal and senile male rats
- Senile and average age rats were injected with .75mg and 7.5mg of Testosterone Propionate five times a week for a period of 90 to 118 days.
- The weight of kidneys increased by about 12 percent, no pathological or histologically changes were observed.
- https://tinyurl.com/mr3dbsum The Effects of Testosterone Administration (and its 5-alpha-reduction) on Parenchymal Organ Volumes in Healthy Young Men
- For the analyses, participants receiving placebo or dutasteride were pooled according to the dosage of Test Enanthate they were allocated to, generating 4 treatment groups (50, 125, 300 or 600 mg of TE per week for 20weeks)
- No clinically significant changes in renal function tests were observed in any treated groups.
- https://tinyurl.com/dand69xy The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men
- Study: 600mg 1x a week for 10 weeks to healthy males
- Serum creatinine concentrations did not change to any significance. Unfortunately, no imaging was done on the kidneys.
- https://tinyurl.com/mwukms4c Evaluation of anabolic steroid induced renal damage with sonography in bodybuilders
- Group 1: 500mg Test Enanthate, 400mg Deca and 40mg Dbol for 12 weeks
- Group 2: 500mg Test Enanthate, 300mg Deca and 300mg EQ for 12 weeks
- Group 3: Control
- The aim of this study was to investigate the effect of anabolic steroids on kidneys in bodybuilders. Methods: 22 bodybuilders were included in the study. Participants were divided into three groups according to the scheme of steroid usage
- Renal volume, cortical thickness, echogenicity and protein intake value were significantly higher in group 2 than group 1 and 3. Plasma levels of BUN and Creatinine in group 2 were significantly higher than other groups.
- The results of this study indicate that high protein intake, steroid usage, particularly the schemes including boldenone undecylenate, increases cortical echogenicity, thickness of renal parenchyma and renal volume in bodybuilders.
- This is the final bullet in my opinion, boldenone included at a reasonable dose and stacked with other anabolics, unequivocally showing it is more renal toxic.
Increased RBC Count / Erythropoiesis (EPO)
Something else I will hear is that EQ can make you “vascular” by increasing Red Blood Cell count and subsequently hematocrit and hemoglobin. This is baffling to me, as this is a side effect from all androgens we are trying to avoid. When working with clients I find keeping RBCs in range to be a very common problem. I know there are many who will say androgen induced EPO has not been linked with any heath problems, but with the clotting and heart stuff going around, I like to keep that parameter in range or very close. Making your blood thick is not going to increase anabolism and will likely increase BP and subsequent systemic oxidative stress. Even if you are an endurance athlete specifically looking for this RBC boosting effect, EQ is likely not the best at it. Before synthetic EPO became available, androgens were the most effective agents available for treating the anemia of renal failure. Nandrolone decanoate (Deca) became the androgen of choice for treating anemia because it enables patients to achieve the greatest hematocrit response with the least side effects compared to other androgens studied and approved at that time. https://tinyurl.com/2kuvv9c6 There are even studies showing nandrolone to be as effective as recombinant EPO at increasing RBC in patients on dialysis. However, the use of androgens for the treatment of anemia in CKD patients has been stopped because of inconsistent erythropoietic response, side effects (BP rises) and the availability of recombinant EPO as a more effective and safer agent. And if you want to get more vascular, you can do that without drugs, by doing a damn calorie restricted diet and getting lean you lazy piece of shit.
Increased Appetite
I cannot tell you how many times I have been told that the 600mg EQ in someone’s cycle is “for appetite”. No other anabolic steroid has been associated with increased appetite, so it always confused me why this was the case for EQ. We do find very limited mention of it in the animal models; “Ingestive behavior was significantly affected by administration of EQ, where the frequency times of eating and drinking was significantly higher in treated groups than control. The frequency of caecotrophy (self poop eating) in group (B1) was significantly higher than the control group and not different in comparison to group (B2). This may be due to promotion of body tissue building through protein synthesis indirectly via stimulation of growth hormone, insulin like growth factor secretion and animal appetite (Ferreira et al. 1998).” https://tinyurl.com/2p8w3z6x This is the only evidence I could find between EQ and increasing appetite. If the pathway described above is accurate, then all AAS would induce increases in appetite which I anecdotally have found to be true but not very significant. This effect is not reliable, it has no known mechanism and is attached to a toxic hormone. If you actually want to crank your appetite up use GHRP6 or MK677, they work directly on ghrelin (the "hunger" hormone).
Toxicity – Carcinogen
Boldenone and its metabolites; 17b-T, 17b-Bol and other related substances are under investigation with animal experiments by laboratories for carcinogenic potential. Like the other androgenic steroids, 17b-Bol is classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as a probable human carcinogen, with a carcinogenicity index higher than that of other androgens, such as nandrolone, stanozolol, testosterone and clostebol. A recent study has also demonstrated the role of 17a-Bol in the development of human prostate carcinomas implanted in mice. I was not able to find the specific study showing the head-to-head of all the AAS in a carcinogen model, but it is referenced by many other sources. https://tinyurl.com/msxb4tte I would still take it with a grain of salt.
Possible Reduced Aromatization to Estradiol compared to Testosterone / Anxiety
William Llewellyn famously quoted in his landmark book Anabolics that EQ aromatized about 50% to that of testosterone. This claim was accepted for a long time and is still echoed today but the reality is it might be much less. According to Derek, Boldenone does not aromatize into enough Estradiol, and instead produces a far weaker estrogen (Estrone) with completely different pharmacodynamics. This over conversion to estrone causes estradiol to levels to crash. This is not necessarily positive because of the cardio protective and anabolic nature of estradiol. The protective role of estrogen and estrogen receptors in cardiovascular disease and the controversial use of estrogen therapy MPMD has a deep dive on the subject if you are interested. https://tinyurl.com/ms5x5j9z Also an interesting Eroids post on the subject in agreement with Derek’s hypothesis. https://tinyurl.com/3ksppysa I do want to clarify that this AI effect does not happen to everyone and have seen bloodwork with no crashed estradiol while on heavy doses of EQ. That is why I do not understand people claiming to use it as an AI, unless you have bloodwork to back this up, this is not a reliable effect of EQ. And if you do have bloodwork to back this up, higher estrone levels are associated with a myriad of health risks https://tinyurl.com/3krwpnu9 The theoretic rise in estrone and crash of estradiol might be the mechanism for the infamous "EQ anxiety". If you want to balance your estrogens correctly and safely, use an Aromatase Inhibitor like Exemestane. Here is a study showing it given to women in kidney failure with no deleterious renal effects. https://tinyurl.com/2p99cwfe
Possibly Faked by UGLs
This topic might cause some controversy, but I do not care. I used to be close friends with a local Underground Lab Cook, I would prep him for shows. Over the years he began to tell me insider things involving the underground production of AAS. One of his more shocking claims was that EQ was faked a lot by his fellow sources, himself included. He claimed this is because boldenone raws, do not hold at room temperature, meaning it is semi-liquid not powder like other AAS raws. This means it is shipped in 10-30ml bottles just like what you get from your source, except it is pure EQ. From my understanding, this raw is not drastically more expensive than testosterone, but adds more logistics, and he told me it makes the packages more recognizable by customs. He just used lower dose testosterone as his “EQ 300mg/ml” to get around this shipping issue, but he also told me it was just because EQ was not that popular, and the hassle of the liquid was not worth it - his words. This is information given to me by him and can be left up to your interpretation. His “lab” was not on Eroids and is not around anymore.
Closing thoughts
In the end we have steroid weaker than testosterone, that could crash healthy estradiol levels and is associated with renal toxicity. It does not reliably increase appetite and has no known mechanism for doing so. I think the nail in the coffin is the study involving a small dose of 300mg of EQ drastically increasing renal toxicity in an anabolic stack. https://tinyurl.com/mwukms4c So based on this evidence, I find EQ unsuitable in any situation, as it has no unique characteristics and is less tolerated than other AAS.
Hopefully this causes some interesting conversations, thank you and be safe by friends.
