Feedback on my ideas about steroid harm reduction

[weighted chinup]

Stoked that i have done an OK job, thanks so much for the feedback.
I was not aware of these cases of sudden death myself. where they cardiac arrests? don't suppose you know of literature on this?

Several from recent memory:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0379073819303378

Sudden cardiac death in anabolic androgenic steroids abuse: case report and literature review

Sudden Death in Athletes - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Yes, usually cardiac arrest. Re-modelling seems to be the primary culprit.

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Several from recent memory:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0379073819303378

Sudden cardiac death in anabolic androgenic steroids abuse: case report and literature review

Sudden Death in Athletes - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Yes, usually cardiac arrest. Re-modelling seems to be the primary culprit.

Thanks heaps. might add that as a qualifying statement when I talk about how steroid harm reduction has been based on the tenets of psychoactive drug harm reduction (BBV and sudden death) and how these foci don't really apply well to steroids. I'll clarify that there are some cases of sudden deaths, but I suppose they are still dissimilar to 'overdose' as they are more long-term.
Thanks heaps for your thoughts. While steroids seem to be relatively low harm these important counter cases suggest that we need to exercise a fair bit of caution. I wonder if those deaths could have been prevented if they had been using under medical supervision

 

[weighted chinup]

I wonder if those deaths could have been prevented if they had been using under medical supervision

In the cases of sudden death in young otherwise healthy athletes who had only 6 months to a year of AAS use, I'm sure medical supervision could have avoided it but without symptoms you likely aren't going to get a CT Scan of your heart done, especially if nothing shows up on an EKG. If someone is so vulnerable in such a short time frame, is there even anything that can be done aside from never using AAS again? It seems likely that there was a congenital issue at play in those cases, but not certain.

I posted this in another thread but basically my thoughts on sudden death are pretty much this:

I know of one example of a 28 year old otherwise healthy male who had an MI after 1 year of self-administering 200mg T/E week.

The Iranian Trenbolone study is interesting, because he was running it for a year straight I believe, sometimes it's not really a matter of severe / permanent damage to the blood vessels, plaque, or remodeling, sometimes it just comes down to a combination of things and bad luck setting off an MI. Taking trenbolone for 365 days may not be enough to cause significant remodeling, but 365 days where something can fuck up just because of a combination of factors is enough.

When people analyzed Dallas's autopsy report and they noted all these irregularities in his heart, thyroid, etc, you have to wonder how many other 300lb'ers would have those same issues mid-blast. Maybe most? But not all of them are dropping dead. Your body isn't a finely engineered Swiss watch, it's an imperfect biological entity and you can't assume just because you have good health markers nothing will happen. Or even bad...anyone here have grandparents who smoked from childhood and lived till their late 80's?

 

[Iamnatty]

Just watched and I thought that was a great presentation thank you !

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Just watched and I thought that was a great presentation thank you !

My absolute pleasure! So glad you liked it

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

In the cases of sudden death in young otherwise healthy athletes who had only 6 months to a year of AAS use, I'm sure medical supervision could have avoided it but without symptoms you likely aren't going to get a CT Scan of your heart done, especially if nothing shows up on an EKG. If someone is so vulnerable in such a short time frame, is there even anything that can be done aside from never using AAS again? It seems likely that there was a congenital issue at play in those cases, but not certain.

I posted this in another thread but basically my thoughts on sudden death are pretty much this:

Thanks. Makes me think of Zyzz dying at age 22 of a 'congenital heart defect'

 

[bambam333]

It's an academic paper so they're usually about 8-9000 words so it is long (and too academic). Once I get the content right I might try and do a more accessible version that just talks about the strategies in an easier to digest way. Maybe even a podcast or something

Yes I was waiting for that information but my add kicked in and got Ancy. I will try again when I get some time and appreciate the fact of you taking time and researching this

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Yes I was waiting for that information but my add kicked in and got Ancy. I will try again when I get some time and appreciate the fact of you taking time and researching this

my pleasure. thanks for trying and I hope to get the less boring version to you soon

 

[weighted chinup]

Thanks. Makes me think of Zyzz dying at age 22 of a 'congenital heart defect'

His brother however is fine and is still running gear presumably, or at least was a few years ago based on how he looks. (ChestBrah)

If any sibling of mine that ran AAS died I would never touch this shit ever again unless I was certain something else was at play. I am inclined to believe there was an underlying heart condition there but probably other factors involved too. I am referring to recreational drug use despite how many fans insist he was not a party guy by any means (please....).

Sauna's in Thailand are probably not the most wholesome places on earth.

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

I am referring to recreational drug use despite how many fans insist he was not a party guy by any means (please....).

please indeed - i have done a lot of research on Zyzz and he was definitely off his head in a lot of videos and I'm pretty sure he says at much in at least some videos.
I get the impression Chestbrah is not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I kinda pity him. It would be hard to live forever in your dead little brother's shadow

 

[Eman]

i have done a lot of research on Zyzz

Didn't you submit a paper for publication that included zyzz but they asked you to remove the words "fuck" or "cunt" that repeatedly showed up in the paper?

I believe you included the term "dick skin shredded" in a lecture at your uni?

Some of these guys have no idea how well you fit in here at Meso... You need to work this stuff into your posts for street cred.

 

[weighted chinup]

Didn't you submit a paper for publication that included zyzz but they asked you to remove the words "fuck" or "cunt" that repeatedly showed up in the paper?

I believe you included the term "dick skin shredded" in a lecture at your uni?

Some of these guys have no idea how well you fit in here at Meso... You need to work this stuff into your posts for street cred.

I'm surprised they would take issue with this language, you should have seen some of the shit my mom had to read and write about for her PhD program in Sociology.

I'm a freak and I even thought some of that shit was way too crass.

 

[Eman]

I'm surprised they would take issue with this language, you should have seen some of the shit my mom had to read and write about for her PhD program in Sociology.

I'm a freak and I even thought some of that shit was way too crass.

Pray tell.

I think I'm slightly off with my memory about it but I think it was something along those lines...

 

[weighted chinup]

Pray tell.

I'll take "dick-skin shredded" over "bugchasing" any day....

Besides, I think the term "fuck of death" is more endearing ツ

 

[Eman]

bugchasing

Oh yeah... That is a real Google rabbit hole to go down. Yikes.

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

Didn't you submit a paper for publication that included zyzz but they asked you to remove the words "fuck" or "cunt" that repeatedly showed up in the paper?

I believe you included the term "dick skin shredded" in a lecture at your uni?

Some of these guys have no idea how well you fit in here at Meso... You need to work this stuff into your posts for street cred.

Yes the title of my paper contained "Fuuuuuaaaaarrrrrk" which they made me take out but they let me keep all the 'cunts' in the paper (35). I once presented a paper at a conference with 3.4 swear words per minute (most of which were cunt), which has to be an academic record! and yes I talk about dick skin in my lectures and had to apologise to the dean once when one of my lecture slides defining "sick cunt" was put on social media by a student (closest I have ever been to going viral!).
I don't know to work this stuff in especially as the Zyzz focus could do the opposite of giving me street cred in some people's minds!

 

[MairUnderwood(Researcher)]

I'll take "dick-skin shredded" over "bugchasing" any day....

Besides, I think the term "fuck of death" is more endearing ツ

Man, I had a colleague presenting on this kind of stuff last week and I had to say I didn't understand bugchasing. He did try to explain it with something about belonging to the community. Still don't get it myself but each to their own I s'pose

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Several from recent memory:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0379073819303378

Sudden cardiac death in anabolic androgenic steroids abuse: case report and literature review

Sudden Death in Athletes - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Yes, usually cardiac arrest. Re-modelling seems to be the primary culprit.

I can’t help but think these isolated cases are either:
- misdiagnosed as having issues secondary to AAS use when shit would have happened anyways
- too few to be relevant anyways

In the first case, at that young age I would bet none of them ever did an in-depth physical check up to investigate the shape of their heart prior to AAS use.
So they may have had that malformation all along, just happened to be discovered after they had a myocardial accident.


In the second case, those accidents after only 6 months of use are so few that they may indicate a particular reaction to a substance.
Just like those kids who collapse after snorting coke for the first time, when others can have a lifelong of abuse without batting an eye.


Not trying to blind myself away from these studies in a whishful thinking manner, just dubious considering the political agenda against AAS and the distrust I have in general towards the medical world.

 

[Safety First]

I will! But yours, and some of the other responses, have convinced me that once I get the content sorted I should do a more accessible version that is not so academic so I can reach all audiences

Thanks lol

 

[ickyrica]

Bugchasing... Wtf... Good lord.
Wish I never looked that up.