First Cycle Log - Marathon Runner

[amorgan90]

This forum doesn't seem to get a lot of love so I figured I'd post my first cycle log here.

I'm 31, a dedicated distance runner, and have been training seriously since around the time the COVID lockdowns started in 2020. I ran my first sub 3 hour marathon back in March (2:58:20) where I qualified for the Boston marathon and want to spend the rest of my thirties chasing my peak potential. I generally run 70-90 miles a week (have maxed out at 120mi) and have seen great progress natty but wanted to hop on Test to enhance my recovery and boost my red blood cell count.

I have a demanding few months coming up so I decided to do a 16-20 week cycle at 250mg of Test C per week (pinning EOD) leading up to a marathon in December then taper down to a TRT dose for a month before hopping back into another 3 month buildup with 250mg for the Boston marathon. For the final few weeks of each training block and for race day, I also wanted to throw in some lowish dose Winstrol (20-30mg) for a potential performance boost. I also use Armodafinil for harder efforts as well as it seems to help with the mental side of distance running. I started this cycle halfway into my 18 week training plan and have seen some amazing progress that is too significant to consider placebo.

Here were the numbers from my bloodwork at 8 weeks:

Estradiol: 98 pg/ml (37 baseline)

Free Test: 506 pg/ml (92.6 baseline)

Total Test: 3015 ng/dl (870 baseline)

Hematocrit: 47.5% (42.6% baseline)

Hemoglobin: 16 g/dl (14.5 baseline)

Liver & kidney values all in range

 

[amorgan90]

Some experiences so far:

Around the 3 week mark I started to notice some major changes. My heart rate for my marathon paced long run was 5-10 bpm lower than normal and the effort felt considerably easier than the last one. From the first week I was also getting morning wood every day which despite my naturally decent test levels, wasn't happening before. I also noticed that I had more energy in the evening when I would usually start feeling worn out.

My easy runs have been largely the same. Heart rate and perceived exertion is normal. But the speed work and marathon paced long runs have been the days that I've been noticing the effects of the slightly higher hematocrit I think. My heart rate has been 5-15 bpm lower during marathon pace (6:20-6:30 per mile) and aerobic threshold pace (5:55 - 6:05 per mile) workouts.

I'm a month out from race day and had my last hard workout at the end of week 7 of the cycle: 20mi total with 14 mi at marathon pace (6:20-6:30 per mile). I fell into a rhythm early and went out too fast, doing my first few miles around 6:10 and below. It felt roughly the same as what 6:20 felt like before the cycle. The most noticeable part was that my heart rate stayed within zone 3 and wouldn't budge past it even when I sped up to about 6 minutes per mile flat!

I ended up doing 17 mi at 6:14 per mile with a total of 21 mi. Somehow despite stopping twice for stoplights I set my half marathon PR of 1:22:00 during the workout. For context, I'm aiming for a sub 2:50:00 marathon which would be under 6:29 per mile. Based on how I'm feeling midway into this cycle, a 2:45:00 marathon might even be realistic but I don't want to get ahead of myself.

Today, I did my first dose of winny. 20mg in the morning before my 16 mi easy run. I'm going to run it for no longer than a month including race day. I'm hoping that the lower SHBG might help me with recovery during the taper and my performance might see a little boost as well. I've been researching positive olympic drug tests and stanozolol seems to have been used by half a dozen or so marathon/distance runners so I figured it was worth a shot. I was first turned onto the drug after watching the documentary Icarus. During his track running days, Grigory Rodchenkov mentioned that he used it and later when on to say that he won a local marathon.

I just wanted to share my training/cycle to add some life to the endurance part of this site. Obviously most people here are focused on bodybuilding but I think Test and AAS can have substantial benefits for endurance athletes as well.

 

[Andi & Helga]

Hi amorgan90,
how much weight have you gained?

 

[amorgan90]

@Andi & Helga Before the cycle, I was hovering between 167-170lbs and once the test kicked in I've been around 175lbs with no change in diet. I'm 5'10''

 

[Andi & Helga]

Why are you using such high amounts of hormones for the first time? Slight supraphysiological T levels with small amounts of Dht on them might be quite sufficient.With your amount of testosterone I would be much slower especially on climbs and panting like a water buffalo.

 

[amorgan90]

I was unsure how my body would react and was really surprised that my total test went up above 3000 ng/dl. I was considering 200mg but excitement got the better of me and I settled on 250mg per week.

Honestly, the water retention has not been that bad. If I somehow didn't know I was on test, I would not have noticed the weight gain. My easy runs which range from 5-7 miles have been the same and my longer workouts (14-20 miles) have actually been much better. I count calories to make sure I eat around maintenance every day and sometimes above maintenance to carb load the day before big runs. So far so good.

Coming into this cycle I was in the best shape of my life aerobically and so far the test has just been a nice boost. If anything changes I would definitely lower the dosage, but for now I think I should be fine to finish the cycle before tapering down to a TRT dose. The time between training blocks for each race is too short for proper PCT so that's why I plan to cruise.

 

[Adg99]

Man. I’m getting flashback reading this and not in a good way. I started my first cycle after getting prescribed trt from my doctor. I too was right in the middle of my training block for the la marathon last March.

It was one of the worst decisions timing wise I’ve ever made. I gained 10 or so pounds within the first month and running became increasingly more difficult every day. Shin splits and back bumps became the norm on every run toward the end. My heart rate increased on my zone 2 slow runs by 5-10 Bpm.

I ended up finishing above my goal (3:15) at 3:26 I think it was.

This was my third marathon and I regret starting my cycle at the time I did.

I did get big though and I look way better without a shirt today.

Now I just focus on getting big and running is more of a once a week keep my health in check activity. Anything over 6 miles is a chore now.

I will say I am happy with the way I look as I was skinny and not muscular at all.

I do miss the excellent cardio fitness and overall better health marker (hrv and rhr) not to mention my bp hovers around 120-140 over 50-70

 

[amorgan90]

@Adegas I'll make sure to report back after my marathon in December. All I can say now is that 7-8 weeks into the cycle I had the best training run of my life and feel very good about my chances of hitting 2:47 - 2:50 for the race. If anything, the substance that has affected my heart rate the most has been the cialis I sometimes take with the test. I've noticed my RHR is lower without it but it doesn't have a very significant effect on my average heart rate rate for runs.

I do anywhere from 7:45 - 8:30 mile pace for my easy runs and my average HR has been the same as it was before cycle. Like I mentioned before, my HR has been noticeably lower on threshold and marathon pace runs.

My training plan gives me the option to run a 10km time trail a week from now, so I'm considering giving that a go. That would be week 9 on test and about a week into my dosing of winstrol. If my body feels up to it then I'll be attempting to hold a pace of 5:45 per mile for the 10km. I'll be sure to keep you all updated on my experimentation. Would love for this forum to have more info about AAS and endurance training so I'm hoping to contribute what I can.

 

[Adg99]

@Adegas I'll make sure to report back after my marathon in December. All I can say now is that 7-8 weeks into the cycle I had the best training run of my life and feel very good about my chances of hitting 2:47 - 2:50 for the race. If anything, the substance that has affected my heart rate the most has been the cialis I sometimes take with the test. I've noticed my RHR is lower without it but it doesn't have a very significant effect on my average heart rate rate for runs.

I do anywhere from 7:45 - 8:30 mile pace for my easy runs and my average HR has been the same as it was before cycle. Like I mentioned before, my HR has been noticeably lower on threshold and marathon pace runs.

My training plan gives me the option to run a 10km time trail a week from now, so I'm considering giving that a go. That would be week 9 on test and about a week into my dosing of winstrol. If my body feels up to it then I'll be attempting to hold a pace of 5:45 per mile for the 10km. I'll be sure to keep you all updated on my experimentation. Would love for this forum to have more info about AAS and endurance training so I'm hoping to contribute what I can.

Ya please do. I’m very curious. Hopefully the improvements continue for you man.

I wasn’t as strict in my counting back then. Who knows maybe one day I’ll do another race.

I do love it. Also curious to try the modafinil for cardio. 150 Armo makes me a robot and I hate it.

 

[amorgan90]

@Adegas Yeah, I have a love/hate relationship with armodafinil. I assumed it wouldn't be great for running until one day during my last training block for the marathon where I broke 3 hours. I was struggling with race pace workouts (6:45 per mile at the time) and I took 75mg of armodafinil to experiment for a big long run.

First thing I noticed is that my legs seemed to move easier early into the run, almost like my CNS was warmed up. Usually it takes a few miles for me to fall into a rhythm but with armo it happened faster. However, my heart rate can sometimes be a little elevated on days where I take it but not necessarily 100% of the time. I ended up doing around 21 miles that day at an average of 6:56 per mile and it was a great race simulation. It seemed to elevated my runners high towards the end of the run and made the mental effort of running hard much easier. Normally during workouts I would have this small voice of doubt in the back of my head but armo seemed to get rid of it. I felt this laser focused energy on running and it was perfect for racing.

I've also read a study suggesting that you can run longer at lactate threshold level longer on modafinil but idk if thats why it helped my hard runs. I ended up taking 3/4 of a 150mg armodafinil pill with a cup of coffee and oatmeal for my marathon and came in comfortably under 3 hours at 2:58:20. Now, I include it for all of my hard runs because it seems to make them more enjoyable and helps me push for extended periods of time mentally. Seems perfect for tough long distance efforts.

However, I try not to use it more than once a week because it obviously disturbs sleep. If I take it too often it wrecks my recovery and interferes with my progress. I take it strictly on days where I need to perform. Interestingly enough, I've noticed that I bounce back much better from modafinil days on test. In the past I would be super tired the next day, feel like napping, and fall asleep early. But with test, I don't feel that same fatigue the next day which is nice.

 

[Andi & Helga]

Man. I’m getting flashback reading this and not in a good way. I started my first cycle after getting prescribed trt from my doctor. I too was right in the middle of my training block for the la marathon last March.

It was one of the worst decisions timing wise I’ve ever made. I gained 10 or so pounds within the first month and running became increasingly more difficult every day. Shin splits and back bumps became the norm on every run toward the end. My heart rate increased on my zone 2 slow runs by 5-10 Bpm.

I ended up finishing above my goal (3:15) at 3:26 I think it was.

This was my third marathon and I regret starting my cycle at the time I did.

I did get big though and I look way better without a shirt today.

Now I just focus on getting big and running is more of a once a week keep my health in check activity. Anything over 6 miles is a chore now.

I will say I am happy with the way I look as I was skinny and not muscular at all.

I do miss the excellent cardio fitness and overall better health marker (hrv and rhr) not to mention my bp hovers around 120-140 over 50-70

Why did you start a cycle? Have you been diagnosed with hypogonadism?

 

[Adg99]

Why did you start a cycle? Have you been diagnosed with hypogonadism?

Ironically from marathon training

 

[Andi & Helga]

Sounds like functional hypogonadism. Did your doctor put you on trt right away?

 

[T&H]

Good stuff. I too am a runner doing around 40mpw. I'll definitely follow your updates.

 

[Andi & Helga]

Good stuff. I too am a runner doing around 40mpw. I'll definitely follow your updates.

Do you have any experience with exogenous hormones?

 

[T&H]

Do you have any experience with exogenous hormones?

Yeah but I'm not interested in typing anything out.

 

[Andi & Helga]

But with test, I don't feel that same fatigue the next day which is nice.

The exhaustion with all its side effects can also strike. That's why some are caught with cortisone and co, like the Kenyans recently. You can use the training plans to identify the doper. Testosterone has a high potential for addiction, especially in supraphysiological doses, not only because it has a psychoactive effect.

 

[chocolateandjuice]

fascinating. Your experience with test for endurance is very different from mine.
I'm a cyclist (also lift), and going on trt actually lowered my Vo2max, increased resting heart rate etc...
Upping the dose makes it all much worse.

 

[amorgan90]

fascinating. Your experience with test for endurance is very different from mine.
I'm a cyclist (also lift), and going on trt actually lowered my Vo2max, increased resting heart rate etc...
Upping the dose makes it all much worse.

I forgot to mention that my resting HR has increased just a little. I wear an oura ring to track sleep and my RHR has gone from 37-40 bpm to 41-47bpm. Hasn't made a big difference but its definitely something I'm watching. My v02 max has remained the same though. If I get great sleep and lay off the modafinil, my RHR very nearly gets back to baseline.

 

[amorgan90]

Update: Finished my last big long run of the training block - 22 miles, closing out 85 miles for the week. I've been on 30mg of winstrol since Thursday (20mg in the morning, 10 at night taken with 1g of Tudca & 1g of citrus bergamot) and I can start to feel the effects.

Average pace was 7:50 per mile and I was able to keep my HR in zone 2 until mile 17 which is typical. However my lower body felt a little tighter than normal and I feel like my blood pressure might be creeping up since I started the winstrol. Not the best feeling, but I think I might reserve judgement until I run a 10km time trial next weekend or do a final hard workout depending on how my legs feel. I feel more energetic on the winny but I'm not sure how much its really adding vs the test. Hard to tell until I do a hard run.