Yep, even trt level doses increases RHR and decreases HRV in otherwise healthy people. I’ve seen studies showing the opposite effect on clinically hypogonadal sedentary people but in general healthy endurance athletes will have higher HRV and lower RHR when not on exogenous test, if not just from increased sympathetic activity. I used test on and off (mostly on lol) for a year or so and the biggest improvement was increased recovery and more consistency between workouts. Race performance after a taper would be the same on or off, but on test I could perform slightly better on multi-day races and needed less down time.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
First Cycle Log - Marathon Runner
- Thread starter amorgan90
- Start date
Yep, even trt level doses increases RHR and decreases HRV in otherwise healthy people. I’ve seen studies showing the opposite effect on clinically hypogonadal sedentary people but in general healthy endurance athletes will have higher HRV and lower RHR when not on exogenous test, if not just from increased sympathetic activity. I used test on and off (mostly on lol) for a year or so and the biggest improvement was increased recovery and more consistency between workouts. Race performance after a taper would be the same on or off, but on test I could perform slightly better on multi-day races and needed less down time.
If/when you go off, you’ll likely see your RHR go back to 37 and most likely below temporarily, and your zone 2 HR will drop as well. I’d also be careful and monitor your BP. Extreme endurance work elevated BP will lead to increased heart scarring and calcium score.
I’ve had my vo2 measured in a lab on and off test and it didn’t change my numbers, but the longest I ran test before the lab work was only a couple of weeks. That said, running long acting test indefinitely is *not* conducive to winning. Too much CNS stimulation, sleep struggles, etc. Max effective dose for endurance is very low too. Using it during a taper to improve glycogen loading, nutrient partitioning, muscle repair, etc can be helpful. Low dose for some amount of time can be beneficial to help dig yourself out of an overtraining hole or maximize a short training block. Longest I’ve run it without a break is 6 months to see if I would ever adapt to it, but unfortunately my HRV remained lower than normal and RHR stayed 5-7 bpm higher. Power output and recovery temporarily improves, but long term I feel like the net effect is neutral. Maybe if you’re well below the reference range it helps more. I never really exceeded 14-15 hours a week and always took adequate rest periods to avoid overtraining, and never suffered from clinically low t.
chocolateandjuice
Member
on trt for about 1.5 years now. my weight returned largely to pre-trt levels but at a improved body composition (more muscle but lot leaner, my legs are huge tho). My resting heart rate has pretty much returned to pre-trt levels and my performance on the bike is improving again, but at a rate that would be expected with the amount of training volume I do, on or off trt.
Long story short, I don't think there is a significant performance benefit for endurance athletes from trt other than the improved body composition and perhaps a sligthly improved sprint. (not relevant for me as more into ultra endurance, could be relevant for a crit racer).
I tried running low-dose EQ for a few months as well to see if that improved my performance, I can't say it really did.
amorgan90
New Member
RACE DAY UPDATE: 2:38
Hey guys, sorry for the late update. the race was back on April 17th and it went perfectly. Better than expected!
End of training + Pre-race:
I probably mentioned before, but I had been counting my calories this time around and eating at about a 500 kcal deficit most days. I was 163lbs at the time of my last update and by race day I got down to ~158lbs. The fat just melted off my midsection. I haven't been this lean since high school and I have noticeable vascularity on my biceps, sides/front of my abdomen and on my calves. I didn't really notice until one day when I got back from an easy run and saw these massive veins across my calves. I've never been anywhere near this vascular and my abs look pretty damn good. Aside from some light deadlifting, rows, and arm work early on in training a few months ago I haven't been doing any lifting at all. I was so surprised to see myself under 160lbs that I worried for a moment if maybe it might hurt my performance but I saw no sign of that in training.
In the final two months of training, I hit a key marathon pace long run of 17 miles at marathon pace (5:58/mi) with 5 miles of warm up for a total of 22 miles at 6:14/mi pace. It was tough at the very end but I felt very strong and didn't need to push too hard to sustain the pace. It somehow still didn't seem like a realistic marathon pace to me though, especially given the notorious hills of the Boston course. A few weeks later I decided to try a 10km time trial to see what I could do. I dosed 20mg of winny that morning with some Armodafinil and managed to squeak under 34 minutes at 33:57 for an average pace of 5:28/mi. I was pretty damn surprised that I was able to hold that pace. I went out at 5:20 and ran no slower than 5:30 for each of the miles, never fading or losing pace. I was super happy with that result and it as a massive confidence boost going into the taper. I started dosing winny for the final week leading up the marathon. 10mg in the morning, 10 in the evening.
Race
I studied the course pretty closely on the flight over, listening to youtube videos of pros talking about the course and even watching a video of someone with a gopro running the entire race. I developed a strategy to go out around 5:55-6 min/mi for the first 9 miles or so, keep it steady from then until mile 16 where the newton hills would begin. Hopefully, I'd save energy for the stretch from mile 16 ending at mile 21 at the famous Heartbreak hill. The key was to not run too hard on downhills to avoid tiring out my quads for the end of the race. The first half of the course is fast then the hills come later.
I slept pretty well (about 6-7 hours) felt super relaxed the morning of the race. I took a full pill of Armodafinil, 30mg of Winny, 5mg of Cialis, 500mg of meldonium, and 200mg of caffeine in an energy drink (I took a double dose of Test C before leaving home because I would be missing my usual dosing schedule). I had some oatmeal with a banana and tons of water. I felt completely free of the usual pre-race anxiety that it almost worried me a bit. I just felt ready to go. I have to say that the combo of winny, test and armodafinil feels amazing. I feel like I could go to war on that stack. Full of confidence and zero doubts in my mind.
I don't want to ramble about the race details but everything basically went perfectly. First mile was a bit congested and I struggled to find space behind the pack of runners even though I started in the first wave. It was my slowest mile because of that at 6:19. I was basically thinking that I would try to hold on around 6 minutes per mile until I couldn't anymore. If I could, I would break 2:40 and if not, I would probably hang on to break 2:45 and still set a personal record. I took 2 gels in the first half of the race it made me really gassy for some reason, I think the modafinil was to blame. It can do weird things to my metabolism. It put this annoying pressure on my bladder and abdomen and I felt like I had to pee nearly the entire race. Super annoying but I wasn't going to let it deter me unless I was literally about to shit myself. I worked too hard to stop for some bullshit like that.
I was ticking off miles at about 6 flat or just below for most of the first half, then around mile 9 I slowed just a bit to 6:05-6:10 for a few miles just like I planned. I was afraid of the legendary hills that were about to come. I was drinking water quite a bit just like last race thinking I needed it but it just kept making the gas issue feel worse, so after mile 16 I didn't have another gel or drink of water. I felt great and didn't need it.
When the hills came, I was ready. I felt so strong that for segments in what was supposed to be the hardest part of the race, I was breathing through my nose. I was able to pass quite a few people on the uphills without trying to speed up. As you'll see in the mile splits I'll post below, I hardly lost pace during the hilly miles, and even during the biggest period of elevation gain during mile 21 at Heartbreak Hill, I managed a 6:14. Coming off that hill, I felt great. The crowd was amazing and they were literally screaming for most of this race. It gave me the craziest runner's high and I knew I was going to finish strong. I told myself that I would just hold pace until the last 5k, then I would let it rip.
The last 5k ended up being my fastest 5k of the race. I slowly sped up until I turned the final corner and just let loose. My last 2 miles were 5:47 and 5:29. This was the moment were I really think the drugs made a huge difference. I didn't quite feel like myself, I felt like an animal. I gave it everything and dared myself to push even harder. I had one marathon pace long run that ended in a 5:33 mile and this felt just like that but with a crowd cheering me on. It was truly a unique life experience. No matter how hard I pushed, I felt like I could go harder. My cardio didn't even feel like it was being fully tested somehow but my legs couldn't really go any faster. I think I hit close to 5 minute per mile pace for a short stretch. When I passed the finish line, I caught my breath within 10-15 seconds and I already felt close to baseline. It was insane. Most people around me were looking pretty wrecked but I honestly think I could have managed another few miles at 6 minute pace. My GPS time read 6:01 per mile. Just a hair away from a sub 6 minute pace marathon. Nearly a 10 minute improvement from my last race just 4 months ago.
Reflections
I think the weight loss was the biggest part of my success here. I ran more mileage too (peaked at 110 miles per week), but as the weight came down so did my times. I feel more of a bounce to my stride now and the day after this race, I felt way less sore than last time around. It was a huge difference actually. Last time I was struggling to walk and could barely make it down stairs. This time I was still pretty sore, especially in my quads but almost like a super hard training run might feel. I started running again just two days later. The following week, I did a 90 mile week. Literally feeling super human at the moment. As I write this, I'm in the midst of a 100 mile week because next week I plan to run 32 miles for my 32nd birthday. Not super fast but quicker than a normal long run for sure.
I should also mention that I'm down to 155lbs now, still fluctuating up to the high 150s. My blood pressure is also much improved since I last checked when I was 20-30 pounds heavier. Systolic is down 10 points and diastolic is down 15+ to the lowest I've seen it since I've been monitoring. I actually took my last reading in the build up to the race when I was on winny so I was happy to see it looking good/normal. Speaking of winny, I should also mention that I had absolutely zero joint issues. Not even a hint or suggestion of a joint issue. I think last time around might have actually been in my head or perhaps because of the extra weight I was carrying around. This time just felt great all around. Extra energy, aggression, and endurance. Perfect boost for race day.
What's Next?
First thing is the 32 miler as I mentioned, then I will officially take my Test dose down to TRT levels. I need to dial that in but I think 100-120mg should do it. Blood work will be the judge. Everything in my life feels so good that I can't imagine coming off completely now. I plan to throw in some weight training and maintain 80mi+ a week to keep my fitness until the fall/winter when I'll do another marathon. I'll probably start another training block in august or so. Judging my how well things are going and how fast I was able to finish a tough course like Boston, I'd like to set the bar high and go for a sub 2:30 marathon in the winter on a faster course. That would be around 5:40 per mile or so and worst case scenario I definitely think I could hit 2:35. Hell, I may have been able to hit 2:35-2:36 in Boston if I raced less conservatively before the hills. Right now, I'm feeling like the sky's the limit. The stack is working wonders and I don't see any need to tweak anything next time. My heart rate is down to the lowest its ever been during easy runs and some days I feel like a goddamn horse.
I don't think I want to get my weight below 150lbs, but it if it happens naturally without crazy effort I won't complain. I've always been a lean person in the past so this feels like a healthier weight for me. But I've been above natty test levels consistently for about 6 months now, so dialing in a TRT dose will be my priority after the big run next week. Will be interesting to see how it effects daily training, but I'm sure it won't make a huge difference since I'm not going to be pushing it anytime soon.
Anyways, thanks for reading guys. Will update again in a month or two.
Splits:
### Splits
| Mile | Time |
|------|------|
| 1 | 6:19 |
| 2 | 5:54 |
| 3 | 5:58 |
| 4 | 5:52 |
| 5 | 6:02 |
| 6 | 6:02 |
| 7 | 6:00 |
| 8 | 6:02 |
| 9 | 5:58 |
| 10 | 6:07 |
| 11 | 6:09 |
| 12 | 6:00 |
| 13 | 6:07 |
| 14 | 6:04 |
| 15 | 6:08 |
| 16 | 5:58 |
| 17 | 6:11 |
| 18 | 6:09 |
| 19 | 6:07 |
| 20 | 6:07 |
| 21 | 6:14 |
| 22 | 6:01 |
| 23 | 6:06 |
| 24 | 5:57 |
| 25 | 5:47 |
| 26 | 5:29 |
| 27 | 5:22/mi |
Hey guys, sorry for the late update. the race was back on April 17th and it went perfectly. Better than expected!
End of training + Pre-race:
I probably mentioned before, but I had been counting my calories this time around and eating at about a 500 kcal deficit most days. I was 163lbs at the time of my last update and by race day I got down to ~158lbs. The fat just melted off my midsection. I haven't been this lean since high school and I have noticeable vascularity on my biceps, sides/front of my abdomen and on my calves. I didn't really notice until one day when I got back from an easy run and saw these massive veins across my calves. I've never been anywhere near this vascular and my abs look pretty damn good. Aside from some light deadlifting, rows, and arm work early on in training a few months ago I haven't been doing any lifting at all. I was so surprised to see myself under 160lbs that I worried for a moment if maybe it might hurt my performance but I saw no sign of that in training.
In the final two months of training, I hit a key marathon pace long run of 17 miles at marathon pace (5:58/mi) with 5 miles of warm up for a total of 22 miles at 6:14/mi pace. It was tough at the very end but I felt very strong and didn't need to push too hard to sustain the pace. It somehow still didn't seem like a realistic marathon pace to me though, especially given the notorious hills of the Boston course. A few weeks later I decided to try a 10km time trial to see what I could do. I dosed 20mg of winny that morning with some Armodafinil and managed to squeak under 34 minutes at 33:57 for an average pace of 5:28/mi. I was pretty damn surprised that I was able to hold that pace. I went out at 5:20 and ran no slower than 5:30 for each of the miles, never fading or losing pace. I was super happy with that result and it as a massive confidence boost going into the taper. I started dosing winny for the final week leading up the marathon. 10mg in the morning, 10 in the evening.
Race
I studied the course pretty closely on the flight over, listening to youtube videos of pros talking about the course and even watching a video of someone with a gopro running the entire race. I developed a strategy to go out around 5:55-6 min/mi for the first 9 miles or so, keep it steady from then until mile 16 where the newton hills would begin. Hopefully, I'd save energy for the stretch from mile 16 ending at mile 21 at the famous Heartbreak hill. The key was to not run too hard on downhills to avoid tiring out my quads for the end of the race. The first half of the course is fast then the hills come later.
I slept pretty well (about 6-7 hours) felt super relaxed the morning of the race. I took a full pill of Armodafinil, 30mg of Winny, 5mg of Cialis, 500mg of meldonium, and 200mg of caffeine in an energy drink (I took a double dose of Test C before leaving home because I would be missing my usual dosing schedule). I had some oatmeal with a banana and tons of water. I felt completely free of the usual pre-race anxiety that it almost worried me a bit. I just felt ready to go. I have to say that the combo of winny, test and armodafinil feels amazing. I feel like I could go to war on that stack. Full of confidence and zero doubts in my mind.
I don't want to ramble about the race details but everything basically went perfectly. First mile was a bit congested and I struggled to find space behind the pack of runners even though I started in the first wave. It was my slowest mile because of that at 6:19. I was basically thinking that I would try to hold on around 6 minutes per mile until I couldn't anymore. If I could, I would break 2:40 and if not, I would probably hang on to break 2:45 and still set a personal record. I took 2 gels in the first half of the race it made me really gassy for some reason, I think the modafinil was to blame. It can do weird things to my metabolism. It put this annoying pressure on my bladder and abdomen and I felt like I had to pee nearly the entire race. Super annoying but I wasn't going to let it deter me unless I was literally about to shit myself. I worked too hard to stop for some bullshit like that.
I was ticking off miles at about 6 flat or just below for most of the first half, then around mile 9 I slowed just a bit to 6:05-6:10 for a few miles just like I planned. I was afraid of the legendary hills that were about to come. I was drinking water quite a bit just like last race thinking I needed it but it just kept making the gas issue feel worse, so after mile 16 I didn't have another gel or drink of water. I felt great and didn't need it.
When the hills came, I was ready. I felt so strong that for segments in what was supposed to be the hardest part of the race, I was breathing through my nose. I was able to pass quite a few people on the uphills without trying to speed up. As you'll see in the mile splits I'll post below, I hardly lost pace during the hilly miles, and even during the biggest period of elevation gain during mile 21 at Heartbreak Hill, I managed a 6:14. Coming off that hill, I felt great. The crowd was amazing and they were literally screaming for most of this race. It gave me the craziest runner's high and I knew I was going to finish strong. I told myself that I would just hold pace until the last 5k, then I would let it rip.
The last 5k ended up being my fastest 5k of the race. I slowly sped up until I turned the final corner and just let loose. My last 2 miles were 5:47 and 5:29. This was the moment were I really think the drugs made a huge difference. I didn't quite feel like myself, I felt like an animal. I gave it everything and dared myself to push even harder. I had one marathon pace long run that ended in a 5:33 mile and this felt just like that but with a crowd cheering me on. It was truly a unique life experience. No matter how hard I pushed, I felt like I could go harder. My cardio didn't even feel like it was being fully tested somehow but my legs couldn't really go any faster. I think I hit close to 5 minute per mile pace for a short stretch. When I passed the finish line, I caught my breath within 10-15 seconds and I already felt close to baseline. It was insane. Most people around me were looking pretty wrecked but I honestly think I could have managed another few miles at 6 minute pace. My GPS time read 6:01 per mile. Just a hair away from a sub 6 minute pace marathon. Nearly a 10 minute improvement from my last race just 4 months ago.
Reflections
I think the weight loss was the biggest part of my success here. I ran more mileage too (peaked at 110 miles per week), but as the weight came down so did my times. I feel more of a bounce to my stride now and the day after this race, I felt way less sore than last time around. It was a huge difference actually. Last time I was struggling to walk and could barely make it down stairs. This time I was still pretty sore, especially in my quads but almost like a super hard training run might feel. I started running again just two days later. The following week, I did a 90 mile week. Literally feeling super human at the moment. As I write this, I'm in the midst of a 100 mile week because next week I plan to run 32 miles for my 32nd birthday. Not super fast but quicker than a normal long run for sure.
I should also mention that I'm down to 155lbs now, still fluctuating up to the high 150s. My blood pressure is also much improved since I last checked when I was 20-30 pounds heavier. Systolic is down 10 points and diastolic is down 15+ to the lowest I've seen it since I've been monitoring. I actually took my last reading in the build up to the race when I was on winny so I was happy to see it looking good/normal. Speaking of winny, I should also mention that I had absolutely zero joint issues. Not even a hint or suggestion of a joint issue. I think last time around might have actually been in my head or perhaps because of the extra weight I was carrying around. This time just felt great all around. Extra energy, aggression, and endurance. Perfect boost for race day.
What's Next?
First thing is the 32 miler as I mentioned, then I will officially take my Test dose down to TRT levels. I need to dial that in but I think 100-120mg should do it. Blood work will be the judge. Everything in my life feels so good that I can't imagine coming off completely now. I plan to throw in some weight training and maintain 80mi+ a week to keep my fitness until the fall/winter when I'll do another marathon. I'll probably start another training block in august or so. Judging my how well things are going and how fast I was able to finish a tough course like Boston, I'd like to set the bar high and go for a sub 2:30 marathon in the winter on a faster course. That would be around 5:40 per mile or so and worst case scenario I definitely think I could hit 2:35. Hell, I may have been able to hit 2:35-2:36 in Boston if I raced less conservatively before the hills. Right now, I'm feeling like the sky's the limit. The stack is working wonders and I don't see any need to tweak anything next time. My heart rate is down to the lowest its ever been during easy runs and some days I feel like a goddamn horse.
I don't think I want to get my weight below 150lbs, but it if it happens naturally without crazy effort I won't complain. I've always been a lean person in the past so this feels like a healthier weight for me. But I've been above natty test levels consistently for about 6 months now, so dialing in a TRT dose will be my priority after the big run next week. Will be interesting to see how it effects daily training, but I'm sure it won't make a huge difference since I'm not going to be pushing it anytime soon.
Anyways, thanks for reading guys. Will update again in a month or two.
Splits:
### Splits
| Mile | Time |
|------|------|
| 1 | 6:19 |
| 2 | 5:54 |
| 3 | 5:58 |
| 4 | 5:52 |
| 5 | 6:02 |
| 6 | 6:02 |
| 7 | 6:00 |
| 8 | 6:02 |
| 9 | 5:58 |
| 10 | 6:07 |
| 11 | 6:09 |
| 12 | 6:00 |
| 13 | 6:07 |
| 14 | 6:04 |
| 15 | 6:08 |
| 16 | 5:58 |
| 17 | 6:11 |
| 18 | 6:09 |
| 19 | 6:07 |
| 20 | 6:07 |
| 21 | 6:14 |
| 22 | 6:01 |
| 23 | 6:06 |
| 24 | 5:57 |
| 25 | 5:47 |
| 26 | 5:29 |
| 27 | 5:22/mi |
amorgan90
New Member
Great to see such a fast runner here! I aspire to run your times and maybe hit an OTQ for the 2028 trials. I'm actually going to be 32 next week. I haven't really done much weight training at all recently. As I mentioned in the race report I just posted, I was trying to get in the habit of doing light work with deadlifts for stability and some arm or bench work for vanity but it felt didn't feel like a good use of my time. I plan to get back at it soon though but recently its just been all running.
As for mileage, I actually haven't dropped at all recently not sure which post you're referring to. For CIM I maxed out at around 90 miles a week, then maintained around 70-80 before hopping into training for Boston which was a 3 month plan that peaked at 110 miles a week. In the past when I was natty I went up to 120 so I'm no stranger to higher mileage but it was obviously a lot tougher to stay injury free at that level back then. I plan to increase mileage for my winter training block to peak around 120, but until then I'll probably just maintain fitness around 80-100 miles a week. The higher mileage has been making a huge difference for me and now that I'm on Test, I no longer need to worry as much about over training. Its still a mental block I'm trying to get past. My body feels capable of so much more now but I don't think I've quite found a way to fully tap into that because I always used to be scared of getting injured and having to take time off. Also with the 25lb+ weight loss, my blood pressure and cholesterol have improved a ton so I'm really happy about that. Who knows where I'd be without running right now.
For the last question, its funny for me to give you advice as a runner who is 13 minutes slower in the marathon haha. But I would say keep it simple. You achieved a great time natty, so just increase the dose for your training block and see how things go. I'm at 250mg a week split over 4 shots but everyone reacts differently at different doses. Maybe try 1.5x or double your TRT dose then do some bloodwork mid training block to see where you're at. As for weight gain, if you're at maintenance with calories or a bit below then you'll be fine. You might notice some water retention at first but that went away for me as my body seemed to adjust. My SHBG rose and I'm sure my body adjusted in other ways that helped my system adapt to the high test. The main thing I noticed is that I didn't have to eat or sleep as much during marathon training to fully recover. So if you're afraid of gaining weight just count calories and you should be fine. Remind yourself that with super human levels of test, you don't necessarily need to be at a calorie surplus to recover from hard workouts like when you were natty. It takes some getting used to, but you'll come to trust how your body can endure conditions it simply couldn't before.
For example, this week I've still been losing weight + eating at a deficit yet have easily done four middle distance runs or longer in a row (14mi, 16mi, 17mi, 14mi). When I was natty, I would have to split those up into doubles and eat/sleep a ton to compensate but now my body can somehow just handle it and wake up fresh again tomorrow. I haven't even been getting great sleep this week. It's weird because on the one hand I think it can reinforce bad habits, but on the other hand, your body adapts so well to the training and recovery that it simply doesn't matter. I hardly took any time off after Boston and my first run back was 10 miles. You don't need to be as careful because conventional wisdom doesn't necessarily apply when you're juiced lol.
So to sum it up: watch your calories, get bloodwork proactively midtraining, and trust that your body can do more than you think. Personally, I think if you take a dose that makes you feel like you need an AI, then you should probably dial it back. I've never needed an AI at my dose. I think we could probably hit our best times on a TRT dose or slightly higher. Endurance running doesn't require too much test. Just having even levels all day/night is probably enough of an advantage by itself. Not to mention that you'll probably see a bump in your hematocrit levels which will help boost endurance as well.
As a new poster and long-time lurker, I really appreciate this thread. Congratulations on Boston. Really impressive improvement. I have been a life-long runner and after 40 started with TRT. I'm curious about your experience with orals. I tried a low dose of Oxandrolone (10mg daily) a couple months ago. I loved the strength increase and how I felt lifting weights. That said, when I was doing a harder workout running or nordic skiing, the lower back pumps were crippling. I DNFed a nordic ski marathon 5 miles in because my lower back felt so light I could barely stand up. It sounds like you haven't had any of those issues with Winstrol. Would you recommend it?
How are you using it? Taking consistently and then higher doses for big workouts/races or only as a pre-workout?
How are you using it? Taking consistently and then higher doses for big workouts/races or only as a pre-workout?
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amorgan90
New Member
@Fishsjy Thanks man, I'm glad my experiences can provide some value. There isn't a ton of public info like this on PEDs for endurance athletes, so I thought I'd contribute what I can.
I've heard a lot of stories of people experiencing back pumps like that on orals, its unfortunate that you felt those effects on such a low dose. From what I've read, Anavar is pretty mild so I can't imagine that Winstrol would behave much differently for you. May you can experiment with things like Taurine that people have been taking to help reduce those pumps, but I'm no expert on the matter. I've only ever tried Winstrol and thankfully haven't experienced any real negative side effects apart from possible join discomfort when I was heavier.
I intend to keep my cycles very simple to minimize the chance of any potential stress or short term damage to my body. So during training, I run 20mg winny only before very hard workouts or time trials (probably less than 5-6 total days out of 3 months of training before race week). After that, I ran it for a week leading up to my marathon (20mg per day split between morning and evening then 30mg on race day) and it worked out well for me. I think I might have gotten the same result just taking it on race day only but who knows. Since I'm not a body builder taking it to get stage ready, there doesn't seem to be any point in running it consistently for 2 weeks or more. Seems to be perfect as an extra boost for races and tougher workouts. From what I can tell from my bloodwork and blood pressure readings, this approach has kept everything looking healthy as well.
I've heard a lot of stories of people experiencing back pumps like that on orals, its unfortunate that you felt those effects on such a low dose. From what I've read, Anavar is pretty mild so I can't imagine that Winstrol would behave much differently for you. May you can experiment with things like Taurine that people have been taking to help reduce those pumps, but I'm no expert on the matter. I've only ever tried Winstrol and thankfully haven't experienced any real negative side effects apart from possible join discomfort when I was heavier.
I intend to keep my cycles very simple to minimize the chance of any potential stress or short term damage to my body. So during training, I run 20mg winny only before very hard workouts or time trials (probably less than 5-6 total days out of 3 months of training before race week). After that, I ran it for a week leading up to my marathon (20mg per day split between morning and evening then 30mg on race day) and it worked out well for me. I think I might have gotten the same result just taking it on race day only but who knows. Since I'm not a body builder taking it to get stage ready, there doesn't seem to be any point in running it consistently for 2 weeks or more. Seems to be perfect as an extra boost for races and tougher workouts. From what I can tell from my bloodwork and blood pressure readings, this approach has kept everything looking healthy as well.
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Wow! A big congratulations! I really enjoyed reading your update and post-race analysis. Running essentially a 6 minute per mile paced marathon is incredible. And your fastest mile 5:22 at the end - amazing!
The hills didn't seem to slow you down much. While mile split correspond with the hills?
The lower bodyweight clearly had a big impact. How will you determine your optimal BW without overdoing it?
Which fast courses are you considering for the next race? A sub-2:30 would practically put you an exclusive elite category of runners!
2:25 is definitely next level. How much improvement are you seeking to achieve? What have been stats for previous OQT?
It's interesting to hear how you incorporate weight training into your running training blocks. How does it translate specifically? I've read a lot about weight training shining in keeping injuries at bay. What else?
hawkberry04
New Member
Any plans to give HGH a shot? Avid runner here.. just ordered my first kit. Excited to see what impact it has.
chocolateandjuice
Member
In terms of performance ? Expect to be disappointed.
In terms of recovery and aesthetics it's amazing tho.
hawkberry04
New Member
Recovery is why I want to try it. Is your recovery time basically cut in half? Can you train every day?
chocolateandjuice
Member
No it doesn't do anything crazy, you just get a slightly quicker recovery but mostly that will still be nutrition and sleep dependent. (be careful with insulin resistance, even with high levels of aerobic training my blood glucose still trended upward). It did make me much more injury-proof, and if I did get injured it healed much faster.
HGH also makes my muscles "prettier" in a way steroids alone just don't. hard to explain but they just do.
hawkberry04
New Member
Good info. What time of day did you inject?
chocolateandjuice
Member
I did a shot first thing in the morning and one pre-workout, which works well for me.
Before bed doesn't work for me as I can't sleep if I do, but it seems to work for a lot of people. (Had the same experience with pharma grade and UG)
hawkberry04
New Member
Did you happen to have any existing gyno when you started? I have a little bit and concerned it’ll grow.
UncleBuns
Well-known Member
Dudes, take this to your own thread and stop muddying up this one. Your conversation is not relevant in this thread.
sketch7
New Member
That's awesome man. Those splits are insane. My splits are like 10m + since starting TRT. I've always been slow, but the added muscle from my standard weightlifting protocol slowed me down a great deal.
beastmode_b
New Member
you still out here grinding?
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