Fluoroquinolone

[CubbieBlue]

Talking to OHno. Saw what looked like a recent post where he was still complaining. I am not in doubt of long term consequences BY ANY MEANS. I have felt the wrath of FQs. Fortunately they left me about as quickly as they came. I figured you had further issues. But his track, as I followed, seemed like it should have subsided based on what he was presenting.

Still, If I were you, I would do my best to forget about it and try to let the body heal. Even if that means just going to bed and work for the next year. If the damage is neurological and real, its not going any where unfortunately. I wish I could say better, but adult Neurological just doesnt have that much ability to repair.

Have you researched GH as a fix? (not to futher encourge fixating on it). But always worth a read... I dont know, Just offering a thought..

OK... I just went back and read a few. Are you not the runner too that I am thinking of?? I could be thinking of someone else there. But based on all the stuff you have there "Walked a mile in Birks". WTF. YOU need to just cut it out too. STOP DOING ANYTHING PHYSICAL FOR PETE"S SAKE... I speculate you are aggrivating the aggrivated. You HAVE to let everything try to settle back down to a baseline of NOTHING. Let it heal... WHy are you still doing these things if you are hurt??!!??

Stop walking to a restaurant? Dude, I'm not killing myself, I'm just not living my life like a cripple. Quite honestly, the less I do the worse I seem to feel. At the beginning I did continue exercise, sports, etc. and it probably did make it worse to some extent. Although, I am not convinced that the continued degeneration wouldn't have continued anyway.

Luckily, I have been spared the majority of the neuro effects. The ones I did have are mostly gone/lessened.

As far as GH, yeah, I'm on board with that. I do think at this point that GH and stem cells are the only two shots at reversing damage. Stem cells are not gonna happen, but GHRP is doable.

 

[BBC3]

Get a hold of yourself.. NO ONE WALKS ANYWHERE!!![)] You are in a rare percentile of energetic/physically active people. What seems normal to you is not for most. If you are habing issues with the achilles then stop walking. Seriously, if I just walked a mile a day I would be 30lbs lighter. You underestimate how intensive all that bi-peding around is..

Stop walking to a restaurant? Dude, I'm not killing myself, I'm just not living my life like a cripple. Quite honestly, the less I do the worse I seem to feel. At the beginning I did continue exercise, sports, etc. and it probably did make it worse to some extent. Although, I am not convinced that the continued degeneration wouldn't have continued anyway.

Luckily, I have been spared the majority of the neuro effects. The ones I did have are mostly gone/lessened.

As far as GH, yeah, I'm on board with that. I do think at this point that GH and stem cells are the only two shots at reversing damage. Stem cells are not gonna happen, but GHRP is doable.

 

[zkt]

Have been up and down (as usual).


At this point I am 100% functional and able to do everything I was able to do prior to being floxed, I just suffer afterwords/during. I kind of feel like I am around 60 years old.

Come on up on the 60 degree roof and rappell around in the 90 degree heat for a few hours. THEN you`ll feel 60 years old. [)]

 

[hardasnails1973]

I walked into the gym other day and not had seen my friend in almost 2 years. I notice all the black and blue marks on his triceps and shoulders. We started talking and he asked how i was doing and told him about infections that where in my gut. I told him how i was prescribe levaquiin and how my joints where killing me 4-5 days in and just did not feel right on it so i stopped also due to the information I read on line. He then told me that the dr prescribed the same thing to him for sinus allergies for 40 days resulting in tearing his triceps, biceps, and rear delt, almost his hamstring. He told me he still is recovering from this happening over 2-3 months ago. Its happening more often then you know ...

 

[CubbieBlue]

I walked into the gym other day and not had seen my friend in almost 2 years. I notice all the black and blue marks on his triceps and shoulders. We started talking and he asked how i was doing and told him about infections that where in my gut. I told him how i was prescribe levaquiin and how my joints where killing me 4-5 days in and just did not feel right on it so i stopped also due to the information I read on line. He then told me that the dr prescribed the same thing to him for sinus allergies for 40 days resulting in tearing his triceps, biceps, and rear delt, almost his hamstring. He told me he still is recovering from this happening over 2-3 months ago. Its happening more often then you know ...

I know it man. You are lucky you stopped when you did. You would have ended up fucked.

 

[hardasnails1973]

joint pains are now gone and I have gotten stronger in my shoulders and knees are not as achey. It was a blessing, The genome file also was the red flag as well because I can not properly handle the detoxification of certain meds. Quinolones would have probably made my life living hell in another few weeks..

 

[CubbieBlue]

joint pains are now gone and I have gotten stronger in my shoulders and knees are not as achey. It was a blessing, The genome file also was the red flag as well because I can not properly handle the detoxification of certain meds. Quinolones would have probably made my life living hell in another few weeks..

Keep an eye on yourself for another month or so. Mine initially was bad...then got better...than a bomb went off in my body.

 

[OhNoYo]

BBC3, other than my knees, especially the right one which is REALLY starting to bother me, I feel 100%. I am almost completely positive that the knee problem isn't directly related to this, and am actually going to post about my knees in a new thread with the hopes someone will have some answers for me.

As for Cubz, I hope you get better soon, Brotha!

 

[CubbieBlue]

Well, here are my current theories as to why this is happening and seemingly won't stop:

1.) Direct toxic effects to the tendons/muscles/cartilage of a human being
2.) Toxic vascular effects which inhibit bloodflow, and thus healing
3.) possibility of an autoimmune component (unlikely I think so far)
4.) possibility of some sort of inflammation cycle

But why the cycling and the freaking longevity of this beast?
And why does cortisol supplementation (in the form of predpacks or even topical 1% cream) cause flare ups and worsening of symptoms almost exclusively??

The problem is that the issue is completely systemic...it has effected nearly every area of my body, including my teeth and eyes.

I need to test if an extreme amount of anti-inflammatories bring me any relief. If they do, it doesn't really eliminate any of the above, but at least it will tell me that I am on track.

 

[BBC3]

Good to hear! And funny you mention knee. I have NEVER had knee problems. Until recently. one day I was leaning up agains the step rail on the SUV, which happens to correspond just at the same height as the knee. I was kinda leaning in to get something out of the car, and my foot was planted. No big deal or sudden movements, but I noticed when I walked away that the outside of my left knee was hurting (the area pressing agains the step rail). Shit you not, I actually damaged something and every now and then when I twist with my foot planted too well it starts up. Minimal indications, but I can tell you that I AM CERTAIN that knee problems would be a PAINFULL BITCH....!. I am sure just being 40 years old and too much aggressive RacquetBall at 260lbs+ is the reason as catching up with me. But really has me wondering.

IT JUST SEEMS TO START UP OUT OF NO WHERE NOW AND LASTS for 5- 20 mins tender Maybe once every two weeks. But it has me on notice and scared to run around at this weight anymore...

So, GOOD TO HEAR YOU ARE WELL. I certainly wish CUBBIE the best. Now if he will just quit all that excercise...LOL[)]

BBC3, other than my knees, especially the right one which is REALLY starting to bother me, I feel 100%. I am almost completely positive that the knee problem isn't directly related to this, and am actually going to post about my knees in a new thread with the hopes someone will have some answers for me.

As for Cubz, I hope you get better soon, Brotha!

 

[CubbieBlue]

Anyone have a really good doctor/rheumatologist/toxicologist/whatever they think I should look into for this?

 

[CubbieBlue]

Fluoroquinolone-induced tendonitis mri - The Risk of Fluoroquinolone-induced Tendinopathy and Tendon Rupture: What Does The Clinician Need To Know? | JCAD

 

[CubbieBlue]

PBS Newshour just did a 20 minute segment on quinolones and their dangers!!!!!!!!

WOOHOO!!!!

It's not up yet, but probably sometime later tonight or tomorrow. It will appear on this page:
PBS NewsHour Recent Programs | PBS

I would appreciate it if you folks watch it and spread the word just so you can save yourself the misery I've been dealing with for 6 months.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Full video here:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/jan-june11/antibiotics_06-16.html

Also, this thread has a TON of views.

Is there a way a mod can tell me if they are being referred from search engines or direct from the forum? I am just curious.

Millard can you help?

Thanks

 

[OhNoYo]

Full video here:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/jan-june11/antibiotics_06-16.html

Also, this thread has a TON of views.

Is there a way a mod can tell me if they are being referred from search engines or direct from the forum? I am just curious.

Millard can you help?
Thanks

You can send MB a private message regarding this. I had problems with not being able to post new threads or replies and he got back to me really quick and fixed the problem immediately.

 

[CubbieBlue]

You can send MB a private message regarding this. I had problems with not being able to post new threads or replies and he got back to me really quick and fixed the problem immediately.

Thanks ONY.

 

[karter]

Hi, CubbieBlue.

i came across your thread today. I'm very sorry to learn of your trials with quinolones.

I read this thread with some interest as your experiences parallel my own to some degree- in severity, cycling, and timeframe. I had read most of the materials you reference but learned a lot as well.

Thank you so much for taking the time to publicly log your experiences.

OhNoYo, BBC3, ThinIce . . . I'm sorry to hear of your trials as well and wish you all a continued recovery.

I'm going to post a short diary of my experiences in the next post. The persistence of my right wrist issues is due to having had a local cortisone injection into my right wrist only weeks before taking the Cipro The right wrist remains, by far, my most debilitating issue.

I look forward to following everyone's progress and to hearing that we all eventually pull out of this.

 

[karter]

1/14/2011 Ingestion 2x 500mg Cipro: extreme tendinitis in both wrists

1/15/2011 Ingestion 2x 500mg Cipro: extreme tendinitis in both wrists

1/16/2011 Ingestion 1x 500mg Cipro: extreme tendinitis in both wrists, anxiety, panic

1/14 - 2/14 Initial acute onset: body-wide tendinitis, extremely painful wrists. Anxiety and acute panic attacks throughout first week. Continually iced wrists, shoulders, extremely limited use of left shoulder, difficulty with right.

2/14/2011 Peak of first phase: can walk only a few blocks (returned home on valentine's day, didn't know if I could make it home). Wrists, shoulders unusable.

2/14 - 2/28 Some alleviation of symptoms, esp shoulders, knees, ankles

Mar / Apr Much improvement in all tendons, with the exception of right wrist - still largely unused

Apr Right elbow, knees, ankles, shoulders, left wrist all remain impacted, but am largely functional at this point for minimal daily activities. Right wrist remains immobilized, without utility, but chronic pain is significantly reduced.

4/29/2011 Onset of dry eye syndrome.

5/23/2011 Start of first relapse: Tendinitis in achilles, knees, both wrists, shoulders. Difficulty walking. Dry eyes continue. First entrance of real depression. Suicidal thoughts over next few weeks.

6/13/2011 First panic/anxiety attack since acute onset - recurs every day of this week.

6/16/2011 Anxiety/panic continues, but tendinitis less acute. Depression lifts rapidly on this day. Dry eyes continue. Right wrist still immobilized.

 

[karter]

By way of introduction ....

I'm a 40yr old male, live in Chicago, father of two young children, work in IT, have been an athlete and musician most of my life.

I developed mild tendinitis in my wrists in late 2008, which I attributed to supporting the weight of our daughter with my wrists while carrying her. I changed my carrying habits, knocked off wrist curls when lifting weights, and in a few months no longer had a problem. When I tried to resume curls in 2010, I again developed mild tendinitis in my right wrist. In Sep of last year I decided to consult a physician: I was 40yr old, I didn't intend to stop lifting weights, or bowl, or play tennis, etc, because of a ridiculous wrist issue. My Dr prescribed me anti-inflammatory drugs and told me stop taking them if I developed stomach issues. I quickly did get stomach pains so stopped taking them. In Dec of last year, because I couldn't tolerate anti-inflammatories he administered a cortisone injection to my right wrist. And because the stomach pains persisted, I consulted another Dr who - unbelievably - prescribed me Cipro "just in case" the stomach pains were due to an infection.

Two 500mg pills that Fri and I went to bed thinking it strange that my wrists had become so painful and tender. I awoke 5am Sat morning to get in a few hours of piano practice before my family awoke to find that I could not play - extreme pain in both wrists at the touch of the keys. Two more pills in Sat. One more pill in Sun before my wife suggested that I check whether there were any side effects to the medication I had been prescribed...?

Thus began my now five month journey into the toxicity of fluoroquinolones.

 

[CubbieBlue]

By way of introduction ....

I'm a 40yr old male, live in Chicago, father of two young children, work in IT, have been an athlete and musician most of my life.

I developed mild tendinitis in my wrists in late 2008, which I attributed to supporting the weight of our daughter with my wrists while carrying her. I changed my carrying habits, knocked off wrist curls when lifting weights, and in a few months no longer had a problem. When I tried to resume curls in 2010, I again developed mild tendinitis in my right wrist. In Sep of last year I decided to consult a physician: I was 40yr old, I didn't intend to stop lifting weights, or bowl, or play tennis, etc, because of a ridiculous wrist issue. My Dr prescribed me anti-inflammatory drugs and told me stop taking them if I developed stomach issues. I quickly did get stomach pains so stopped taking them. In Dec of last year, because I couldn't tolerate anti-inflammatories he administered a cortisone injection to my right wrist. And because the stomach pains persisted, I consulted another Dr who - unbelievably - prescribed me Cipro "just in case" the stomach pains were due to an infection.

Two 500mg pills that Fri and I went to bed thinking it strange that my wrists had become so painful and tender. I awoke 5am Sat morning to get in a few hours of piano practice before my family awoke to find that I could not play - extreme pain in both wrists at the touch of the keys. Two more pills in Sat. One more pill in Sun before my wife suggested that I check whether there were any side effects to the medication I had been prescribed...?

Thus began my now five month journey into the toxicity of fluoroquinolones.

Sorry to hear your story Karter. Have you seen the facebook page? (Search "levaquin" on facebook, over 1,000 members) There is also a yahoo newsgroup called FQ Toxicity (just google it) and join that.

I've taken 3 levaquin and a handful of cipro throughout my life. Not sure of the dosages of either and don't really care to call the pharmacy to find out because it's not going to change a damn thing. I took mine back in November '10, had a mild reaction that was delayed in real severity for about a month, then a bomb went off. I'm a little over 200 days out. A lot of stuff is better, a lot of stuff is the same, and some stuff is mildly worse.

I guess a cliff notes version of stuff for you:
- if you don't have brain damage or neuropathy consider yourself one of the lucky ones
- you might recover 100%, 90%, 70% or not at all. It depends. It takes time. Don't expect a full recovery in under 6 months, and think more in terms of 1-2 years.
- even though you think only your wrist hurts now, if you started running I bet your achilles, post tib. tendons, and all sorts of other stuff would flare up
- you are now in a bizarro world where everything seems like a conspiracy theory - that's cuz it is. No lawyer will take a case like yours (or mine), you have no one to sue, and J&J and Bayer ignore the issue completely...as does the majority of the medical community. That PBS news show was the most press this issue has gotten since just after 2001 when all the post office workers took cipro for anthrax. Kind of a funny aside, remember when GW Bush blew out his knee jogging and had to stop jogging and ride his bike for exercise? You know what he took just before that? Cipro.
- I've spent probably $5,000 on supplements, growth hormones, phys. therapy, chiro, doctors, whatever, you name it, I've tried it! Most of it doesn't do a damn thing. If I had to pick a few supps to aid in recovery I would say:
magnesium glycinate
Gingko biloba
Pyncogenol
A good multi vitamin
a lot of luck
- shit pops up randomly, don't be surprised if your teeth start to get a little thin and ache..that happened to me a few months back...it sucked.

Anyway, let me know if you have any questions, either here or PM. I used to live in Chicago but now I'm a little bit downstate. The guy who is running the quinolone toxicity foundation (saferpills.org) lives in Pontiac IL. We might have like a "meeting" of illinois floxxies if you are ever interested...just to kinda commiserate and vent. Its hard getting sypmathy from others for this condition because no one understands.