Fucked by Finasteride / calling all expert steroid users

[Bill Roberts]

It costs about $80 to buy a kit which includes microscope, slides, and necessary solution that will enable testing of sperm count at home. Perhaps that can give some reassurance: I hope so.

It is a very frustrating situation when an unusual medical condition requires seeing doctor after doctor before finally finding the one that has the insight and determines -- usually quickly -- exactly what is going on. I still think that you are in that situation, where the problem is not in fact understood, but quite likely there will be a doctor expert in precisely your problem.

 

[Stev7667]

At the moment my current issue isn't so much what I think might be low sperm count its... the inability to get and maintain erections without constant stimulation.

Even though my sperm count might be low (I have yet to get this tested) Last time I had blood work done my Serum T was over 800 (250-1100) thats pretty good, my free T was literally off the charts high (but I was just coming off letrozole at the time), my LH, and FSH were also on the high normal range.

I still have testicular atrophy from the one long cycle I did in my early 20's... but my testicles appear to be functioning properly even though they are only 27 ML... probably about 50% of what they used to be.

Although I don't have complete ED and I do sometimes now wake up with decent morning wood... thanks to the HcG/HMG (hopefully it stays when I'm done) I am not in anyway near what I was.

 

[Claude Monnet]

@Stev7667 Just out of curiosity, what was your protocol for the letrozole? i.e. duration, doses etc

I'm not at all surprised by your mention of supraphysiological free T values, considering this study:

http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/full/158/5/741 (Letrozole once a week normalizes serum testosterone in obesity-related male hypogonadism -- Loves et al. 158 (5): 741 -- European Journal of Endocrinology)

and others. I'm currently the test subject for my own experiment with letrozole.

 

[Stev7667]

@Stev7667 Just out of curiosity, what was your protocol for the letrozole? i.e. duration, doses etc

I'm not at all surprised by your mention of supraphysiological free T values, considering this study:

http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/full/158/5/741 (Letrozole once a week normalizes serum testosterone in obesity-related male hypogonadism -- Loves et al. 158 (5): 741 -- European Journal of Endocrinology)

and others. I'm currently the test subject for my own experiment with letrozole.

2.5 MG every 1.5 - 2 weeks... I would crush a pill and mix it in water and take a daily sip and finish the bottle over the course of two weeks.

I was on it for 3 months...

Serum Test was 804 free test was 254 when I came off (max normal on free test was like 145 or something about that.)

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Re: OnLine First

Irwig MS, Kolukula S. Persistent Sexual Side Effects of Finasteride for Male Pattern Hair Loss. The Journal of Sexual Medicine. Persistent Sexual Side Effects of Finasteride for Male Pattern Hair Loss - Irwig - 2011 - The Journal of Sexual Medicine - Wiley Online Library

Introduction.? Finasteride has been associated with reversible adverse sexual side effects in multiple randomized, controlled trials for the treatment of male pattern hair loss (MPHL). The Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency of the United Kingdom and the Swedish Medical Products Agency have both updated their patient information leaflets to include a statement that “persistence of erectile dysfunction after discontinuation of treatment with Propecia has been reported in post-marketing use.”

Aim.? We sought to characterize the types and duration of persistent sexual side effects in otherwise healthy men who took finasteride for MPHL.

Methods.? We conducted standardized interviews with 71 otherwise healthy men aged 21–46 years who reported the new onset of sexual side effects associated with the temporal use of finasteride, in which the symptoms persisted for at least 3 months despite the discontinuation of finasteride.

Main Outcome Measures.? The types and duration of sexual dysfunction and the changes in perceived sexual frequency and sexual dysfunction score between pre- and post-finasteride use.

Results.? Subjects reported new-onset persistent sexual dysfunction associated with the use of finasteride: 94% developed low libido, 92% developed erectile dysfunction, 92% developed decreased arousal, and 69% developed problems with orgasm. The mean number of sexual episodes per month dropped and the total sexual dysfunction score increased for before and after finasteride use according to the Arizona Sexual Experience Scale (P < 0.0001 for both). The mean duration of finasteride use was 28 months and the mean duration of persistent sexual side effects was 40 months from the time of finasteride cessation to the interview date. Study limitations include a post hoc approach, selection bias, recall bias for before finasteride data, and no serum hormone levels.

Conclusion.? Physicians treating MPHL should discuss the potential risk of persistent sexual side effects associated with finasteride.

 

[Mens Rea]

Such a dirty drug.


I, too, an a finasteride sufferer with all the associated sexual sides.

At 25 years old, i'm not exactly thrilled.


I do think there's hope yet but it takes alot of time, money and resouces. IMO its a multi-faceted problem - adrenals, thyroids and other sex hormones (Testosterone, Estrogen, Progesterone, DHT etc). Re-balancing all of these is a highly complex process. Our systems have become "stablised" in their newly degraded states. This is why, in my opinion, we often experience short bursts of improvement followed by a return to base. Our systems' have new defaults. These need reset.

Check out propeciahelp.com/forum

It seems there has been recoveries from lots of different things; time being the biggest factor but also things like hcg etc. The fact that different people have found different success with different protocol shows me, that although our problems are of the same origins (root cause) the treatment plan will depend on how your body is now in terms of adrenals, thyroids etc.

I'm currently trying to optimise my T/E ratio via arimidex. I've got the benefit of bloods on tap, thankfully. Am monitoring my progress closely and trying to establish a sweet spot. I'm currently tweaking my dosage to drive down my estrogen. I do believe there is a chance (Esepcially at a young age) to successfully reset these levels over a few months and then taper off the drug. That's the theory anyway.

Failing that it'll be clomid perhaps. I'm also looking into a good approach of Pregnenolone along with T3 (if necessary) as this seems to have a lot of science behind it, too.

 

[sade]

Without a doubt, anyone that states they did AAS for a year without any adverse effects upon stopping is not to be listened to.

..

 

[ergomaniac]

..

stop drinking.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Öztekin ÇV, Gur S, Abdulkadir NA, et al. Incomplete Recovery of Erectile Function in Rat after Discontinuation of Dual 5-Alpha Reductase Inhibitor Therapy. The Journal of Sexual Medicine. Incomplete Recovery of Erectile Function in Rat after Discontinuation of Dual 5-Alpha Reductase Inhibitor Therapy - []ztekin - 2012 - The Journal of Sexual Medicine - Wiley Online Library

Aim.? The association of 5-alpha reductase inhibitor (5ARI) therapy and sexual dysfunction has been reported. Some patients claim persistent erectile dysfunction despite long-term discontinuation of 5ARI treatment. The aim of this study was to assess erectile function after cessation of 5ARI therapy using a rat model.

Methods.? Twenty-six adult male Sprague-Dawley rats were randomized into three groups: (i) control (N = 10); (ii) 8-week dutasteride treatment (0.5 mg/rat/day, in drinking water, N = 8); and (iii) 6-week dutasteride treatment followed by a 2-week washout period (N = 8). The experiments were performed after 8 weeks from the initiation of treatment in all groups. In vivo erectile activity and in vitro contractile and relaxant responses of cavernosal smooth muscle were investigated.

Results.? In vivo erectile activity (intracavernosal pressure [ICP]/mean arterial pressure [MAP] and total ICP) in treatment groups were significantly decreased compared with controls (ICP/MAP: P < 0.001 for 2.5 v, 5 v, and 7.5 v; total ICP: P < 0.001 for 5 v and P < 0.01 for 7.5 v). Acetylcholine-induced relaxations were diminished in treatment groups (P < 0.05). Relaxant responses to electrical field stimulation (EFS) were decreased in the 8-week treatment group (P < 0.05) but were similar to controls in the washout group. Sodium nitroprusside (SNP)-induced endothelium-independent relaxations were reduced in the 8-week dutasteride treatment group (P < 0.01), while these responses were restored in the washout group. The contractile responses to the alpha1-adrenergic agonist phenylephrine were decreased in treatment groups compared with controls (P < 0.01). Direct neurogenic contractile responses in the dutasteride groups were significantly lower than controls between 1 and 15 Hz frequencies (but not at 20 Hz) and washout partially restored the responses at 10 and 15 Hz.

Conclusion.? Discontinuation of dutasteride improved the relaxant responses to EFS and SNP, while cholinergic and adrenergic responses remained depressed. Our findings suggest a time-dependent detriment of dutasteride on erectile function. The withdrawal/washout effect of 5ARIs on parameters of human sexual function warrants further investigation.

 

[Reginald]

Hello there, I am one of the poor unlucky individuals who have been decimated by the use of finasteride for 1 month at 1mg/day.

Side effects after quitting

2 years of no libido whatsoever, no erections, no sexual thoughts, very low ejaculate, no orgasms

3 years of heavy metabolic problems, a.k.a. adrenal and thyroid issues, now partly recovered

last year been facing extreme testicular regression and shutdown for no apparent reason, since the drug is out of my system 7 years now. Yet my last testing shows very low activity of 5-ar II, which converts T to dihydrotestosterone and very high estradiol levels.

My testicles have lost three quarters of their size and keep atrophying in extreme pains every day as we speak.

I have tried many many substances, drugs and herbs to stop this. The problem is that no matter how much i try to raise testosterone it mostly (90%) goes into estradiol and very very little if any goes to dihydrotestosterone which is what is needed for my testicles to survive.

I am thinking lately of running a cycle with high doses of Proviron (50-75 mg/day) and HcG in order to try and boost my androgenicity and give my testicles a chance to recover.

The question is!!!

1. is it possible to run an androgenic cycle in the same logic as an anabolic cycle?? That is instead of reaching high testosterone levels to try to reach high DHT levels and at the same time try to keep testicles alive or recover them with using HcG medium doses + dht??

2. Is it possible that dht acts as an anti-estrogen and brings my very high estradiol levels down in due time??

3. Does anyone know if high levels of DhT express higher 5-ar II levels or the opposite??

IMHO you need 1-2 shots of GnRH. it's the only stuff in the world capable to "jump-start" your T production how it did/was.
When you "fuck" an hormone and cause a deficiency at that hormone production, so you need to use some shots of the hormone responsible for the secretion of the one you caused the shutdown.
For example: i used some synthetic t4 administrations then i had a hypothyroidism (which continuos). The only thing in the world able to recover my condition now, is the hormone rtesponsable for the t4 secretion. i.e TSH (thyroid hormone hormone ..or thyrotropin).
The bad point is: just Genzyme has it (Thyrogen) yet/but costs a "mountain of dollars" ..so i've a big problem now (not to mention i've no prescription for that, so no one is going to give me).
About you: gnrh is cheap enough than thyrogen ..so don't wait too much and catch it. ci@o

 

[Pochii]

I too am a finasteride Sufferer... All of my blood tests have come back just like OP's Hight E and Low DHT. I have been researching ways to increase 5-ar activity. I am interested in Protodioscin but do not have any access to research articles. If anyone could help that would be great.


I mean, if Finasteride supresses 5-Ar isn't there a drug out there that can increase 5-ar? or do they just care about helping men save their hair? this drug has put me in ruins.

 

[Enden]

I realize that this is an old thread, but the topic is still relevant. I just want to inform people with PFS that there's a new private forum, that's centered around blogging, research and experimental treatments. To maintain a certain quality, only people that have an account on propeciahelp.com will be accepted. You can register there first if you don't have an account, and then you're welcome to join http://www.solvepfs.com (SolvePFS.com)

I hope that the moderators here will allow this post. I apologize if you don't.

 

[man muscle]

Propecia (finasteride) Permanent Sexual Dysfunction Risk..
Please Google it..and never take.