MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Giant Semaglutide Thread (and other GLP-1 / GIP agonists)
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OilCarrier
New Member
say: someone is on 1mg a week of Reta (which is 50% of the minimum effective dose for fat loss), would a dose of 1mg Tirz be of equal effect? or is there an adjustion needed to be made in that case to get an equal effect to the 1mg a week of reta?
(no advice needed for higher doses)
(no advice needed for higher doses)
Trenbolonetax
New Member
@Ghoul
I would be curious to hear your opinion on type 1 diabetics using Tirzepatide / other GLP1s alongside their exogenous insulin. I don’t believe this has been covered much at all and there appear to be very few anecdotal reports.
I would be curious to hear your opinion on type 1 diabetics using Tirzepatide / other GLP1s alongside their exogenous insulin. I don’t believe this has been covered much at all and there appear to be very few anecdotal reports.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
You're right, the research is really thin (like non-existent), probably because these compounds are incredibly effective at enhancing natural glucose control on their own, they completely replace the need for diabetics to use anything else.
FYI I'm not a diabetic or pre-diabetic.
I can only add my own anecdotal experience. On more than one occasion, when using a GLP alongside other things that lower blood glucose, like Metformin or Clenbuterol, I experienced brief hypoglycemia symptoms, like blurred vision within moments of dosing the GLP. This is dangerous, since it doesn't take long for nerves in the eye to become damaged from low blood sugar. I've wanted to get a continuous glucose monitor to confirm this was from low blood sugar, but the fact eating an orange a few minutes before injecting the GLP would prevent it was enough to convince me. Even without the orange, it would resolve within a few minutes, as if the GLP enhanced glucose regulation would kick in and tell the liver "holy shit, get more sugar into the blood now!". But still, a few minutes of that on a regular basis could build nerve damage over time.
So in general, if you experience blurred vision immediately reevaluate what you're taking for anything that lowers blood sugar when on a GLP. More compounds than you'd expect lower blood glucose.
That said, insulin improves cells ability to use glucose as energy, it doesn't just cut down production of it like metformin, and the way Clen improves blood glucose control is unknown, so insulin's different mechanism of action may mean there's no problem at all.
Just be careful. Hypoglycemia is no joke, permanent damage can happen fast. Start low with insulin and be on the lookout for blurred vision, it's not subtle and an important warning sign. If it doesn't happen, I'd think you're good to go.
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There’s actually a drug called Xultophy, a combination of insulin degludec and liraglutide. However, upon reading the warnings it’s not recommended to type 1 diabetics.
But just like any medication which are uncommon, I would suggest asking a medical professional for proper usage.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
@iris, I want to be clear, I don't think you're coming to this debate with ill intent borne out of the same contempt as many of the commenters.
Declan, by far the smartest of the anti-GLP crew, makes compelling, "common sense" arguments that trigger the knuckle draggers who see their visceral "fattie hatred" justified by reasons they could never articulate themselves, to crawl out of the woodwork. His statements about "too good to be true", or "better to avoid pharmaceutical interventions" are actually all good general points that I follow myself, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. I prefer to let a few million other guinea pigs take the lead, since we've seen some awful outcomes from previous "miracle drugs". Drugs that are actually beneficial to be taken indefinitely, instead of being something one should try to use for as short a time as possible are the rare minority.
That's the crux of the matter, however. These aren't some novel "miracle" drugs that just appeared in the last few years. The evidence of safety and benefits is not only substantial, it's overwhelming. By the same standard, ibuprofen is cyanide in comparison. GLPs taken even when not used for weight loss, appear to improve the long term health of nearly every organ and extend life.
It's understandable that most people don't have the time to really dig into this. Some of the worst, most emotionally heated opposition to GLPs came from general practitioner doctors, of all people (mostly very fit ones). Luckily their numbers have been shrinking in the face of so much evidence they look stupid to their colleagues. You can sense the crumbling opposition even here, on Meso. It's far less of a hostile place to GLPs than just 6 months ago.
What's taken the place of the "don't be lazy just eat less move more" narrative is the more nuanced "use it if you must" but just as a "crutch" narrative.
That's the last stand of resistance to the ever clearer science connecting genetics, hormones, and their influence over behavior, in an environment of easily available, often poor quality food to feed this built-in "addiction" as being the root cause of obesity. Not some mass collapse in willpower worldwide that's only avoided by the best people who will themselves to a lower BMI, permanently. Yes of course individual choices play a part. Yes bodybuilders set a great example of the care and discipline that should be taken regarding nutrition, and many other aspects of health the population as a whole should learn from. Not necessarily motivated by health, after all, if a twinkie and ice cream diet led to a great looking body that would be the standard, but nevertheless, good looks and health track pretty closely together. Carefully managed nutrition is seen in those who've been most successful with GLPs, putting it into practice once they don't have to battle with "food noise" every moment of every day. The demand for healthier food by GLP users is changing what people are buying, for those paying attention, and companies are scrambling to meet that demand. Since we all pay for others healthcare and productivity lost to illness this is a reason to celebrate.
But "crutch" is unfair and incorrect for what these drugs are addressing, a chronic, hormone based problem. Those who internalize "crutch, only for temporary use" are going to hurt themselves.
I came across the article below by coincidence, and since most won't read it, I've summed it up to connect the dots about "crutch". This woman didn't come up with that term independently. She heard it from somewhere. Family, media, maybe some clown of an incompetent doctor. But now she's positioned herself to experience some nasty consequences just to erase the stigma of GLP use that's been laid on her:
---------------
Mayo Clinic:
Doctors who treat obesity stress that the disease is a chronic condition that must be managed indefinitely, like heart disease or high blood pressure. The new injection drugs work by mimicking hormones in the gut and the brain to regulate appetite and feelings of fullness. They were designed — and tested — to be taken continuously, experts said.
“We are not an injection shop,” said Dr. Andres Acosta, an obesity researcher and medical adviser at the Mayo Clinic. “I don’t think they should be used in intermittent fashion. It’s not approved for that. They don’t work like that.”
....
Some patients who stop the drugs and start again find they can’t tolerate the medication, winding up with severe gastrointestinal side effects, Acosta said. Others find the drugs don’t work as well when they restart them, Saunders added.
....
Donna Cooper has heard that people gain back weight when they stop the drugs, but she hopes to be an exception.
“I just needed a crutch to get everything back in order,” said Cooper.
https://apnews.com/article/wegovy-ozempic-zepbound-obesity-0d2b4e3f055dfd1b02a1d330db805c52
Declan, by far the smartest of the anti-GLP crew, makes compelling, "common sense" arguments that trigger the knuckle draggers who see their visceral "fattie hatred" justified by reasons they could never articulate themselves, to crawl out of the woodwork. His statements about "too good to be true", or "better to avoid pharmaceutical interventions" are actually all good general points that I follow myself, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. I prefer to let a few million other guinea pigs take the lead, since we've seen some awful outcomes from previous "miracle drugs". Drugs that are actually beneficial to be taken indefinitely, instead of being something one should try to use for as short a time as possible are the rare minority.
That's the crux of the matter, however. These aren't some novel "miracle" drugs that just appeared in the last few years. The evidence of safety and benefits is not only substantial, it's overwhelming. By the same standard, ibuprofen is cyanide in comparison. GLPs taken even when not used for weight loss, appear to improve the long term health of nearly every organ and extend life.
It's understandable that most people don't have the time to really dig into this. Some of the worst, most emotionally heated opposition to GLPs came from general practitioner doctors, of all people (mostly very fit ones). Luckily their numbers have been shrinking in the face of so much evidence they look stupid to their colleagues. You can sense the crumbling opposition even here, on Meso. It's far less of a hostile place to GLPs than just 6 months ago.
What's taken the place of the "don't be lazy just eat less move more" narrative is the more nuanced "use it if you must" but just as a "crutch" narrative.
That's the last stand of resistance to the ever clearer science connecting genetics, hormones, and their influence over behavior, in an environment of easily available, often poor quality food to feed this built-in "addiction" as being the root cause of obesity. Not some mass collapse in willpower worldwide that's only avoided by the best people who will themselves to a lower BMI, permanently. Yes of course individual choices play a part. Yes bodybuilders set a great example of the care and discipline that should be taken regarding nutrition, and many other aspects of health the population as a whole should learn from. Not necessarily motivated by health, after all, if a twinkie and ice cream diet led to a great looking body that would be the standard, but nevertheless, good looks and health track pretty closely together. Carefully managed nutrition is seen in those who've been most successful with GLPs, putting it into practice once they don't have to battle with "food noise" every moment of every day. The demand for healthier food by GLP users is changing what people are buying, for those paying attention, and companies are scrambling to meet that demand. Since we all pay for others healthcare and productivity lost to illness this is a reason to celebrate.
But "crutch" is unfair and incorrect for what these drugs are addressing, a chronic, hormone based problem. Those who internalize "crutch, only for temporary use" are going to hurt themselves.
I came across the article below by coincidence, and since most won't read it, I've summed it up to connect the dots about "crutch". This woman didn't come up with that term independently. She heard it from somewhere. Family, media, maybe some clown of an incompetent doctor. But now she's positioned herself to experience some nasty consequences just to erase the stigma of GLP use that's been laid on her:
---------------
Mayo Clinic:
Doctors who treat obesity stress that the disease is a chronic condition that must be managed indefinitely, like heart disease or high blood pressure. The new injection drugs work by mimicking hormones in the gut and the brain to regulate appetite and feelings of fullness. They were designed — and tested — to be taken continuously, experts said.
“We are not an injection shop,” said Dr. Andres Acosta, an obesity researcher and medical adviser at the Mayo Clinic. “I don’t think they should be used in intermittent fashion. It’s not approved for that. They don’t work like that.”
....
Some patients who stop the drugs and start again find they can’t tolerate the medication, winding up with severe gastrointestinal side effects, Acosta said. Others find the drugs don’t work as well when they restart them, Saunders added.
....
Donna Cooper has heard that people gain back weight when they stop the drugs, but she hopes to be an exception.
“I just needed a crutch to get everything back in order,” said Cooper.
https://apnews.com/article/wegovy-ozempic-zepbound-obesity-0d2b4e3f055dfd1b02a1d330db805c52
Damn, I think the 40 minute HIIT cardio I just did is easier than reading your lengthy post crying about I don’t know what.
Let’s go eat cake buddy.
G,
Thanks for the reply, I am in the middle of something + lazy bi**h hasn't done cardio yet so I will reply to you late tonight, ok?
Ghoul
Well-known Member
Wasn't written for you, but i'll extract all you should get out it.
Stop advising people to use GLPs intermittently. We now know it causes harm. Nobody knew before, but it's clear now.
Then don’t mention my name, stop talking about glps because you don’t know how to use them. 7+ years on it and still faaaatt yet you have the audacity to tell people what to do on it.
You should ask guys here who had changed their body composition instead, maybe you can learn how to become healthy.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
Max dose of Tirz is 15mg. It doesn't "lose effectiveness". You've just plateaued at the weight that dose sets your baseline at. Gain, weight, appetite suppression will kick in again. Otherwise, increase the dose to 12.5, then 15. If you plateau again after 4 weeks of 15, only then consider a different or add on compound.
4 weeks is the point at which you reach stable blood plasma levels after a dose change, with weekly injections.
FWIW I find 12.5+ is a major threshold for effectiveness with Tirz.
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Ghoul
Well-known Member
I tried to play nice, but the way you scoff at an entire army of researchers and medical professionals who've dedicated careers to carefully studying these compounds, in a way that will lead to unquestionable harm, is fucking nauseating.
Your limited observational experience is meaningless, and your smoking addiction says all that's necessary about care for your own health, or the health of your children.
You're just a narcissist with body dysmorphia, not someone pursuing optimal health.
Oh, well what if I have already ordered reta on the way and tirz is OOS? I can always get more just turnaround has been so bad so probably wont get for another 4 weeks ish?
BuildABro
Member
In my experience, there are no humans on the face of the planet more adept at altering their body composition (seemingly at will) than amateur and professional body builders. It's what they do after all, and they are damn good at it.
Some soccer Mom on a GLP1 'journey' is not even in the same dimension. Some of the feats I have seen from the body building community even in my relatively short tenure in this gig defies all comprehension and it inspires me in turn to be the best that I can be and to never give up on pushing myself to the next level.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
I don't see a problem with it. Reta is GLP, GIP so it's "Tirz" with glucagon added. I just wouldn't want to get committed to a compound that's far less cost effective, and still has some questions about what glucagon is going to do long term. It's not even FDA approved yet.
If you think Tirz is out of stock though you should be checking other suppliers. It's widely available.
OilCarrier
New Member
not trying to start something, but the continuous hijacking of the thread for a personal attack is getting annoying. You did this yesterday, now again. It detracts from the valuable info that's in here, which is a bummer when you are trying to read up on the new posts.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
Unfortunately these clowns have been successfully to a degree. The number of members who DM me rather than post here is an indicator of how effective the intimidation of these idiots that wear their ignorance as a point of pride has been.
They have no interest in "harm reduction" for the people most interested in this thread. They think those in here looking for accurate info on using GLPs to improve their health, rather than to tweak their appearance the way they do, are "fatty trash", less then them, and deserve nothing but being unhealthy.
The irony is most of these guys are losers by every other real life metric. More likely to be digging out old cesspools or power washing dog shit off decks by the order of some fat guy than leading a company or being top in any field.
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