GLP-1 agonists: Roughly half of the pounds lost are in the form of muscle protein

[Millard]

I saw this in a recent article by Patrick Arnold:

"GLP-1 agonists were a breakthrough in obesity treatment as no other obesity drugs ever came close to delivering the dramatic weight loss that they could. There is one problem with GLP-1 agonist promoted weight loss though, and that is the fact that roughly half of the pounds lost are in the form of muscle protein. This is not the healthiest of things, nor is it an optimally desired outcome cosmetically speaking."

https://www.patreon.com/posts/new-muscle-drug-91899603

 

[M@NU]

Might has to do with the massive caloric restriction most had when they were on such a drug? I assume if you dont work your muscles and use a massive caloric restriction its more likely to lose muscle tissue
if i remember correctly, @Type-IIx stated it preserves lean muscle mass or even promotes muscle gain (not sure whch it was)

 

[Isrrike]

Would this be true even on a therapeutic dose of testosterone?

 

[lukiss96]

Would this be true even on a therapeutic dose of testosterone?

I doubt it, as these obese individuals didn't exercise enough. Severe calorie restriction leads to lean mass loss as we read it million times before. And yes they were definitely not on trt let alone other anabolics.

Fun anecdotal fact is I used to starve myself before I even lifted I was eating 1000-1600 calories as 17-19 year old and was developing anorexic issues so I was skinny bitch at one point like really lean but no six pack and lost muscle, but then I started training doing pullups and dips and I started to eat more I gained all that lost muscle and blew up in a month. I became bigger than ever and experienced steroid like gains.

Tldr: starvation and not training leads to significant lbm and weight loss for naturals.

 

[Isrrike]

I doubt it, as these obese individuals didn't exercise enough. Severe calorie restriction leads to lean mass loss as we read it million times before. And yes they were definitely not on trt let alone other anabolics.

Fun anecdotal fact is I used to starve myself before I even lifted I was eating 1000-1600 calories as 17-19 year old and was developing anorexic issues so I was skinny bitch at one point like really lean but no six pack and lost muscle, but then I started training doing pullups and dips and I started to eat more I gained all that lost muscle and blew up in a month. I became bigger than ever and experienced steroid like gains.

Tldr: starvation and not training leads to significant lbm and weight loss for naturals.

Yes I was off of everything for 2 years getting my fertility back. My natural test was hovering around 9 nmol (260 ngdl). Looked and felt like a blob of shit lost a bunch of muscle from no motivation or energy to workout could only do light bike work for 45 minutes 3-4x a week. Once I jumped back on a trt dose everything started coming back within a month. Crazy what your body can remember and hold onto

 

[Millard]

Might has to do with the massive caloric restriction most had when they were on such a drug?

Would this be true even on a therapeutic dose of testosterone?

Of course, I think the caloric restriction had a lot to do with it. And we know, from bodybuilding, that there are lots of things that can be done to minimize muscle loss.

The whole point of Patrick's article was that bigpharma is looking to develop/market a drug to minimize such muscle loss. This next expensive new drug could be one answer. An inexpensive therapeutic dose of testosterone could very well accomplish the same or more.

Yet if bigpharma could add another super-expensive drug to stack with the super-expensive GLP-1 agonists, this is what you will hear about.

The new drug BGE-105/Azelaprag may have its own merit as an "anabolic drug" tempting athletes and bodybuilders that may be additive to AAS.

@RiceNKimchi started a thread about it for that discussion here --> BGE-105/Azelaprag, Pat Arnold blog

 

[Millard]

if i remember correctly, @Type-IIx stated it preserves lean muscle mass or even promotes muscle gain (not sure whch it was)

And FYI, I have a new article about this from @Type-IIx. I just need to get it online!

 

[UncleBuns]

It makes sense for people who are overweight and don't exercise. They take a drug that makes it easy for them to starve themselves, continue to not exercise, and lose mass of every kind. I wonder what their protein intake was. Seriously doubt this info applies to most folks here who are eating high protein, training, and taking anabolics. Even without anabolics involved I bet just training and keeping protein high would mitigate the muscle loss.

 

[M@NU]

And FYI, I have a new article about this from @Type-IIx. I just need to get it online!

ah great.
And tbh.. Patrick Arnold was one of my idols when ive started to dive deeper into the "chemicals" side of bodybuilding.
But lately, he really seems to be a bit out of his mind with his different posts on social media and co.. not sure what to think about him now.
But of course on topic, developing another oral drug to minimize the side effect of GLP-1 agonists would be a win for pharma.
I wrote oral by purpose because i believe this is far more interesting for pharma than any injectable due to patients favoring orals.
Would love to see a sales comparision of Semaglutide vs Rybelsus

 

[Scruf]

I have lost 65 pounds with the help of a Tirz. and I haven't really lost much muscle. Granted, i am taking 200mg test, 200mg Primo a week, and 4iu of HGH ed. My results have been really really good. I highly recommend it. In fact i think it should be free to everyone, think of all the healthcare savings we would enjoy, in USA, if we reduced the obese population.

 

[primojuju]

I think most of this community are using the glps to religiously stick to their planned prep/cut diet and just mitigate the hunger variable so they can sleep better and only eat enough to not break down much if any muscle. I usually can only stick to about .75-1.0lbs a week weight loss but with tirz I can stick to losing 1.5-2.0 lb a week and its easy. If I go more than 2lbs a week the fatigue takes over and I will just get hurt in the gym and not recover well. I think its just another variable to push and optimize, some folks dont want to use clen or stimulants or hgh, so more options more better. I do 1.2g/lb daily protein and haven't lost any measurable strength in the gym, If I have lost lean mass I dont think its much.

 

[Isrrike]

Wondering if a glp1 helps while using dnp to curb the appetite or if it’s detrimental

 

[SupremeGainzzz]

all I can do is just sit back and laugh when I see silly shit like this buwhahahah!

 

[Niela]

I can say from my own personal experience that I lost 60lbs using a GLP-1 and only 4 lbs of it were muscle as verified by Dexascan. I just kept up my protein intake and lifted weights regularly along with daily cardio (no other PEDs). I’m about 5lbs from my goal weight, but that involves dropping another 15lbs of fat and adding about 10lbs of muscle. So, I am thinking of adding CJC1295(no DAC)/Ipamorelin.

 

[laclark89]

Tldr: starvation and not training leads to significant lbm and weight loss for naturals.

Of course starvation and not training or even starvation and training, will lead to weight loose. I'm my opinion the muscle will come off quicker than the fat. For naturals

I do remember hearing john meddows say, for him self and some clients he liked to go down to no mans l mand land. I think around 1,200 cal,for part of prep.

 

[slpanico]

I can say from my own personal experience that I lost 60lbs using a GLP-1 and only 4 lbs of it were muscle as verified by Dexascan. I just kept up my protein intake and lifted weights regularly along with daily cardio (no other PEDs). I’m about 5lbs from my goal weight, but that involves dropping another 15lbs of fat and adding about 10lbs of muscle. So, I am thinking of adding CJC1295(no DAC)/Ipamorelin.

I am in the same situation, dropped the weight maintained the majority of muscle wt. If you don't keep up with your protein intake, and have a good weight lifting program you def will have dramatic muscle loss.
I am waiting on my order of CJC/Ipa to help give a kick to my regime.

 

[eery]

No lifting + big calorie deficit + not enough protein would cause that.

Add lifting, make sure your deficit isnt too excessive depending on your bodyfat and eat enough protein feedings throughout the day and im sure you would see a big improvement in the results in regards to LBM loss vs fat loss. Add superphysiological doses of AAS and you should be good.

 

[Type-IIx]

No lifting + big calorie deficit + not enough protein would cause that.

Add lifting, make sure your deficit isnt too excessive depending on your bodyfat and eat enough protein feedings throughout the day and im sure you would see a big improvement in the results in regards to LBM loss vs fat loss. Add superphysiological doses of AAS and you should be good.

Exactly. Rather than muscle protein catabolic, tirzepatide & the incretins are true insulin sensitizing agents. I argue that they're in fact mild partitioning agents, but not potent enough to overcome third factor (i.e., negative energy balance & insufficient protein ingestion) catabolism.

 

[Type-IIx]

I'm just glad to see Patrick Arnold back posting. I've heard musings that he may be ramping up to sell this stuff, azelaprag. I know he's had some personal issues; but we can only benefit from having the mad chemist himself back in the fold. I'd be very keen to see him do a deep-dive into his understanding of myokine signalling, it's interesting.

 

[BloatLord]

I'm just glad to see Patrick Arnold back posting. I've heard musings that he may be ramping up to sell this stuff, azelaprag. I know he's had some personal issues; but we can only benefit from having the mad chemist himself back in the fold. I'd be very keen to see him do a deep-dive into his understanding of myokine signalling, it's interesting.

New Trial Will Test Whether Weight Loss Drugs Can Work Without Shedding Muscle Mass

The diabetes drug Mounjaro—which is sometimes used to lose weight—will be tested alongside an experimental muscle loss treatment, a combination one executive said could “promote healthier weight loss.”

www.forbes.com

I can see this being the next craze. Patrick Arnold is a mad scientist