GLPs: Anti-Consumption agents, of far more than just food.

[Ghoul]

For those suffering from any condition related to excess consumption, or know someone who is, keep this in mind and consider pointing them in this direction, regardless of weight:

"Anti-consumption agents: Tirzepatide and semaglutide for treating obesity-related diseases and addictions, and improving life expectancy"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033062024001798

 

[Rakusa]

Wonder if it works for PEDs too
Some of you big guys be like "I don't feel like 3g anymore"

Now while the study mentioned retatrutide, only in regards to greater weightloss, I wonder how reta would rank in regards as an anti-consumerism agent. Probably worse than sema and tirz?

 

[Ghoul]

Wonder if it works for PEDs too
Some of you big guys be like "I don't feel like 3g anymore"

Now while the study mentioned retatrutide, only in regards to greater weightloss, I wonder how reta would rank in regards as an anti-consumerism agent. Probably worse than sema and tirz?

The anti-Consumption mechanism is all in the GLP receptor agonist, from what I can see. Theoretically, that puts them in the order of effectiveness: Sema, Reta, Tirz.

I would have to agree, as Sema "feels" like it has the most profound psychological impact.

What we need is the law to lift the artificial limit of 40 amino acids in new protein drugs, so pharma can make the GLP portion more potent. For Tirz to add GIP, and Reta to add GIP and Glucagon, GLP had to be weakened in order to make "room" to fit within that artificial limit.

 

[29trt]

Greeatt... let's see how this fucks up humanity even more in the long term....no free lunch in this universe

 

[Ghoul]

Greeatt... let's see how this fucks up humanity even more in the long term....no free lunch in this universe

I know there's been a lot of "looking for the brown lining" since Ozempic took off, but would you say there's been one found in, say, Insulin?

The parallels are very close. Insulin and GLP are both naturally produced peptide hormones. Metabolic dysfunction (and with GLP apparently disorders of compulsive overconsumption, like alcoholism) arises from insufficient production of, or resistance to either.

I often think if there was a straightforward test that could easily indicate "You're producing too little GLP" or "You're GLP resistant", that objective measure would take away a lot of the stigma. There are recently developed tests BTW, I'm surprised it hasn't taken off since they're only about $300.

Few dispute the sensibility of supplementing insulin in a diabetic, testosterone in a hypogonadal man, or growth hormone in a stunted child. The difference with all of those vs GLPs is an easy to determine "number" that takes away the "you don't have enough willpower, you're just weak" reaction that many have towards treatment with GLPs.

 

[Rakusa]

for the consumers of us people, here is an AI generated podcast about the mentioned study: Anti-consumption agents: Tirzepatide and semaglutide for treating obesity-related diseases and addictions, and improving life expectancy [2024]

 

[Rakusa]

I often think if there was a straightforward test that could easily indicate "You're producing too little GLP" or "You're GLP resistant", that objective measure would take away a lot of the stigma. There are recently developed tests BTW, I'm surprised it hasn't taken off since they're only about $300.

I think the fact that people respond differently ("the smallest dose killed my appetite" vs "appetite was untouched for like 8 weeks") shows that people have different sensitivity to GLP-1, it's enough proof for me.

My question still stands, what if you indulge in bad behavior WHILE on glp-1? could you further desensitize yourself to bad actions (ultimately when the drug wears off)? Like doing coke on GLP-1 would make you even more addicted upon stopping GLP-1.

 

[Ghoul]

I think the fact that people respond differently ("the smallest dose killed my appetite" vs "appetite was untouched for like 8 weeks") shows that people have different sensitivity to GLP-1, it's enough proof for me.

My question still stands, what if you indulge in bad behavior WHILE on glp-1? could you further desensitize yourself to bad actions (ultimately when the drug wears off)? Like doing coke on GLP-1 would make you even more addicted upon stopping GLP-1.

I don't think so.

Just as the long term clinical trials prove there's no such thing as GLP "tolerance" ever developing, there no reason to believe the "enjoyment" of substances returns to a pre-GLP level.

The way desire for food is reduced, not just through physical "stick" means of punishment, the same things that happen when we force ourselves to eat beyond our appetite, the same effects(acid reflux, nausea) many here struggle to overcome while trying to take on more calories but physically can't without an appetite stimulant, but the psychological "carrot" portion of the effect reducing desire, then making even the thought of "more" nauseating. The "that doesn't even sound appetizing" for foods one once craved without limit.

Sure, it's possible to force oneself to consume despite the lack of appetite, But not only is the pleasure from doing so greatly diminished, eventually there's a point hit where consumption becomes increasingly unpleasant, and willpower, just like the guys struggling to eat another chicken breast, eventually gives out and you just can't do it.

 

[Rakusa]

I don't think so.

Just as the long term clinical trials prove there's no such thing as GLP "tolerance" ever developing, there no reason to believe the "enjoyment" of substances returns to a pre-GLP level.

The way desire for food is reduced, not just through physical "stick" means of punishment, the same things that happen when we force ourselves to eat beyond our appetite, the same effects(acid reflux, nausea) many here struggle to overcome while trying to take on more calories but physically can't without an appetite stimulant, but the psychological "carrot" portion of the effect reducing desire, then making even the thought of "more" nauseating. The "that doesn't even sound appetizing" for foods one once craved without limit.

Sure, it's possible to force oneself to consume despite the lack of appetite, But not only is the pleasure from doing so greatly diminished, eventually there's a point hit where consumption becomes increasingly unpleasant, and willpower, just like the guys struggling to eat another chicken breast, eventually gives out and you just can't do it.

While its good that there is no evidence that GLP-1 desensitize over time I have some theories:

While I agree, that there are physical limitations and "punishments" to food intake, there are none or only small consequences of drug abuse (like cocaine or heroin).

Some people might stop their drug use in treatment with GLP-1. But for those that don't I see the following risks:

1. compensation of the brain by increasing reward to drug use, despite the modulation of GLP-1 receptors
2. higher drug craving rebound after cessation of the GLP-1 (oversensitivity of receptor activity like dopamine signaling or decreased sensitivity to gaba)
-- especially when triggers are not removed from daily life (like stress, boredom, or even dependence)

I think the last part is the most important one. Work on yourself and your habits or stay on GLP-1 indefinitely.

 

[rexy]

Since getting to 0.5mg+ of Sema, my perception of food really has changed. I'm mostly indifferent to it now and have to remember to eat sometimes. Compare that to a binge-eating personality which has stalked me for my entire adult life. Game changer for me. I honestly didn't think it'd work this well but it's truly been miraculous.

 

[Ghoul]

While its good that there is no evidence that GLP-1 desensitize over time I have some theories:

While I agree, that there are physical limitations and "punishments" to food intake, there are none or only small consequences of drug abuse (like cocaine or heroin).

Some people might stop their drug use in treatment with GLP-1. But for those that don't I see the following risks:

1. compensation of the brain by increasing reward to drug use, despite the modulation of GLP-1 receptors
2. higher drug craving rebound after cessation of the GLP-1 (oversensitivity of receptor activity like dopamine signaling or decreased sensitivity to gaba)
-- especially when triggers are not removed from daily life (like stress, boredom, or even dependence)

I think the last part is the most important one. Work on yourself and your habits or stay on GLP-1 indefinitely.

Personally I see no reason, and strong arguments against, ever coming off GLPs, if they were needed to begin with.

No one suggests diabetics learn to "manually" manage glucose, an extremely difficult, but theoretically possible feat, or hypogonadal men learn to naturally maximize testosterone levels then live with the ill effects of whatever deficiency remains.

One definition of addiction is "continuing a behavior despite being harmful". Take away the reinforcing pleasure from the "reward center" being targeted by these compounds, and the "addictive" property of something you know is causing harm, goes away, allowing the conscious mind to decide whether to continue or not.

Whether the chronic overeater, or someone in the throes of addiction (the cigarette smoker, coke addict, whatever), the thought "ugh, I want to stop this" routinely crosses their mind. But then the desire, the *appetite* increasingly asserts itself, the "xx noise" gets louder until it takes up all bandwidth, and eventually the substance is consumed to take away the increasing discomfort that psychological mechanism imposes to drive behavior the way it wants it to go.

The way the removal of both "food noise" and the anti-addictive properties are described is similar and one of surprise.... "I saw the cake/pipe/bottle and just didn't care about it any more"..

 

[29trt]

Don't get me wrong I am all for advances in medicine that will help us overcome all of our shortcomings both physical and mental...but
Insulin is a good example as it seems to treat exactly what is intended to treat ,even so the actual illness is more complex than just a lack of insulin or overused receptors with time all diabetics suffer the same faith,kidney ,heart issues and dementia being the most difficult to handle ...
Metabolic disease is complex and comprises a miriade of genes, just supplying a GLP to those that need it will probably not solve the issue just postpone it ,still better than nothing I agree but when it comes to effects on the brain you can bet your house its going to do some funny things in different people over the long term )
Hey I am just a bystander and am happy to enjoy the show let the experiment continue!

 

[Rakusa]

One definition of addiction is "continuing a behavior despite being harmful". Take away the reinforcing pleasure from the "reward center" being targeted by these compounds, and the "addictive" property of something you know is causing harm, goes away, allowing the conscious mind to decide whether to continue or not.

It would save so many lives, if this were true. Fuck methadone and shit like that, GLP-1 would be the new methadone. It would be insane to even have it covered by insurance and not let GLP-1 be off label as anti-addiction drugs, paid out of your own pocket.

29trt:

just supplying a GLP to those that need it will probably not solve the issue just postpone it

exactly, people need to work on their triggers or habits that made them cope with drugs/food

 

[Ghoul]

It would save so many lives, if this were true. Fuck methadone and shit like that, GLP-1 would be the new methadone. It would be insane to even have it covered by insurance and not let GLP-1 be off label as anti-addiction drugs, paid out of your own pocket.

exactly, people need to work on their triggers or habits that made them cope with drugs/food

Still early days for this, but the roughly 40% reduced incidence of opioid overdose in populations (with a history of opioid prescriptions, often the first step to addiction), all other factors being equal, prescribed GLP class meds is far too large to be insignificant. This was no small study, with 30,000+ patients.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16679

 

[Anonymous35]

It also change you desire for social activitys

I have also less desire to play at ps5 too

To be more general you’re not happy or eitheir sad, it’s like neutral
And yes less interest in food especially since i had retatrutide
With tirz i was still tempted to eat but i was feeling full
Now with reta added i don’t have any interest in food what so ever

 

[29trt]

It also change you desire for social activitys

I have also less desire to play at ps5 too

To be more general you’re not happy or eitheir sad, it’s like neutral
And yes less interest in food especially since i had retatrutide
With tirz i was still tempted to eat but i was feeling full
Now with reta added i don’t have any interest in food what so ever

That sounds pretty bad actually if you think about it.... Sounds closer to anhedonia than anything else... Never got that even from BPC ( and thats supposed to be more common)

 

[SubparMarioBro]

Wonder if it works for PEDs too
Some of you big guys be like "I don't feel like 3g anymore"

Now while the study mentioned retatrutide, only in regards to greater weightloss, I wonder how reta would rank in regards as an anti-consumerism agent. Probably worse than sema and tirz?

Reta has made me buy all of the supplements and all of the drugs. I used to be normal.

So not good.

 

[Ghoul]

That sounds pretty bad actually if you think about it.... Sounds closer to anhedonia than anything else... Never got that even from BPC ( and thats supposed to be more common)

It's not anhedonia.

20 years since the first GLP prescription
and tens of millions of patient years of clinical experience, along with 15,000,000+ currently prescribed users wouldn't have missed that.

I know what genuine anhedonia is like, and that's not what's induced by GLP.

"Satiety" is a more accurate description.

Excessive gaming is a psychological addiction, hitting the same reward center like gambling, compulsive shopping, or substance addiction, so not surprised to hear the impact to that.

I'm sure plenty of gamers, myself included, have thought in the past "Fuck, I should get off the couch and go do something more interesting / productive / different.".

 

[Anonymous35]

It's not anhedonia.

20 years since the first GLP prescription
and tens of millions of patient years of clinical experience, along with 15,000,000+ currently prescribed users wouldn't have missed that.

I know what genuine anhedonia is like, and that's not what's induced by GLP.

"Satisfaction" is a more accurate description.

Excessive gaming is a psychological addiction, hitting the same reward center like gambling, compulsive shopping, or substance addiction, so not surprised to hear the impact to that.

I'm sure plenty of gamers, myself included, have thought in the past "Fuck, I should get off the couch and go do something more interesting / productive / different.".

Yeah i agree

 

[Ghoul]

I'll add this regarding the psychological impact. Initially it was proposed a suicide warning be put on the box of Ozempic/Wegovy, but research showed less of a risk than the general population, not more.

Yet there's still conflicting data showing increased and decreased rates of depression. I suspect what's happening is that the sudden loss of food as a reward, from the appetite suppression, occurs before the brain adjusts to no longer need the dopamine hit. So you can't eat, but still feel one of the primary drivers that people experienced causing them to eat. That is, eating relieved depression with a dopamine hit.

Then in time, the brain adjusts, the "addiction" lifts, and along with all the other benefits of weight loss, lessened inflammation, greater mobility, and improved satiety in many things, mood improves, depression lifts, and suicide risk drops below the non-GLP using population.

At least that's what the data seems to suggest. An initial increase in depression(for some who were already depressed and medicating with food), then as time goes on, a steady improvement.