goodlyfe test e bloods + qsc hcg(possibly bunk hcg)

[Jin23]

Sure, buddy.

Test enanthate:
1) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...0QFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0p8iNd22_uXmkGrzyWFPdr
2)https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/andro.2020.0002

Test cypionate:
1)https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/andro.2020.0002

Appreciate your reply, "buddy". However, your tone towards @HB_22 is unwarranted. There is no need for such aggression where everybody is talking politely. Also, I don't think anybody was referring to Free T, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok let me unravel this. Testosterone Tmax should, to my knowledge, be around the 14h mark, as I said in my post above. This info provided by me was not just a shot in the dark, but an estimate taken from studies; human and primate.

This is the main source for my info: Comparative pharmacokinetics of testosterone esters and it states a 10h Tmax.

Regarding the studies you cited:

1) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...0QFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0p8iNd22_uXmkGrzyWFPdr

This study says Tmax was reached in day 1, looking at the graphs it looks just a shoot over 24h: Serum levels of tT were 2.56 ± 0.69 ng/mL before ART, increased significantly after administration, peaked (7.62 ± 4.47 ng/mL) on day 1 after administration and remained within the normal range on days 2 to 5 after administration (Fig. 1A).

2)https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/andro.2020.0002

This study says as previously mentioned, 1.7 days: The mean Tmax of TT was 1.7 days, and all cases reached Cmax within 3 days.

Test cypionate:
1)https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/andro.2020.0002

This is the same study as the previous.

Just for reference, N=1, my own PK reflect those of less then a day for Tmax and app 5 days HL, maybe a bit less.

Regarding studies, this varies a lot by site of injection, the volume of injection and also the carrier oil used in the testosterone preparation. But I'd also add that how and when the values were actually measured also plays a role and if the values were calculated, how precise the calculations are also matters. I don't know how much ethnicity plays a role though.

That is correct. Between 8-36h according to different studies with a few individuals peaking at 48h, but the general consens is as you said that it peaks within 24hrs after administration.

Comparative pharmacokinetics of testosterone enanthate and testosterone cyclohexanecarboxylate as assessed by serum and salivary testosterone levels in normal men - PubMed

The pharmacokinetics of 2 testosterone esters, testosterone enanthate and testosterone cyclohexanecarboxylate, were compared in a single blind crossover study in healthy young men. Their effects on serum and salivary levels of testosterone, as well as on the serum levels of LH, FSH and prolactin...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yes, this is my impression too, the general consensus, as far as I know is between 10 - 20h ... The above study says: After the injection of either testosterone enanthate or testosterone cyclohexanecarboxylate, testosterone concentrations in serum and saliva increased sharply and reached maximum levels, 4-5 times above basal 8-24 h after injection.

Maybe @Type-IIx or @PeterBond can chime in and confirm or correct some of our notions.

 

[Type-IIx]

Appreciate your reply, "buddy". However, your tone towards @HB_22 is unwarranted. There is no need for such aggression where everybody is talking politely. Also, I don't think anybody was referring to Free T, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok let me unravel this. Testosterone Tmax should, to my knowledge, be around the 14h mark, as I said in my post above. This info provided by me was not just a shot in the dark, but an estimate taken from studies; human and primate.

This is the main source for my info: Comparative pharmacokinetics of testosterone esters and it states a 10h Tmax.

Regarding the studies you cited:



This study says Tmax was reached in day 1, looking at the graphs it looks just a shoot over 24h: Serum levels of tT were 2.56 ± 0.69 ng/mL before ART, increased significantly after administration, peaked (7.62 ± 4.47 ng/mL) on day 1 after administration and remained within the normal range on days 2 to 5 after administration (Fig. 1A).



This study says as previously mentioned, 1.7 days: The mean Tmax of TT was 1.7 days, and all cases reached Cmax within 3 days.



This is the same study as the previous.

Just for reference, N=1, my own PK reflect those of less then a day for Tmax and app 5 days HL, maybe a bit less.

Regarding studies, this varies a lot by site of injection, the volume of injection and also the carrier oil used in the testosterone preparation. But I'd also add that how and when the values were actually measured also plays a role and if the values were calculated, how precise the calculations are also matters. I don't know how much ethnicity plays a role though.



Yes, this is my impression too, the general consensus, as far as I know is between 10 - 20h ... The above study says: After the injection of either testosterone enanthate or testosterone cyclohexanecarboxylate, testosterone concentrations in serum and saliva increased sharply and reached maximum levels, 4-5 times above basal 8-24 h after injection.

Maybe @Type-IIx or @PeterBond can chime in and confirm or correct some of our notions.

I just see this thread as a lot of hair-splitting. You are correct that PK varies by factors that include injection site, volume, carrier oil, etc. The OP's bloodwork results can be viewed as a binary test that proves that he is indeed injecting testosterone. Nomothetic research applies statistical methods to data that tend to aggregate about the mean for several subjects, and do not predict an individual's particular blood values at an arbitrary time-point. For granularity regarding any preparation's potency and such, @janoshik provides HP/LC testing for a fee.

 

[Ooohlala]

in reality im not too worried about the total test[...]
im more concerned about my free test?

Also, I don't think anybody was referring to Free T, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Sure, no problem. Just read above (the quote from the OP).

Your "reading" of the studies has stopped the soon as you read the values of TT (total testosterone), completely disregarding what came next (some confirmation bias going on, huh, buddy?).


Why do you care for "total testosterone" ? You can inject a whole enanthate or cypionate dose directly into your vein with a proper carrier, and your total testosterone serum levels will be sky high... And what? It's bioavailability will be close to 0% - you see, it's attached to the ester. The total levels you so much care for don't mean much, and they'll go high after injection simply because testosterone is being absorbed and carried to the blood. Once the ester is metabolized, then it becomes bioavailable and able to be used by muscle (and other) tissue. So, free testosterone should be your - or anybody's - concern.

You can search whatever you want. Just head over to Google scholar and type "testosterone [whatever ester you want] serum levels". The studies on enanthate that include free testosterone analysis will be consistent: free testosterone will peak after 24h and will remain that way for an average of 3 days (with some individual AND circunstancial variations. So, assuming your test is high from day 1-4 after injection is a good estimate for most people).

Even when you're focusing on your non-bioavailable "total test":

This study says Tmax was reached in day 1, looking at the graphs it looks just a shoot over 24h: Serum levels of tT were 2.56 ± 0.69 ng/mL before ART, increased significantly after administration, peaked (7.62 ± 4.47 ng/mL) on day 1 after administration and remained within the normal range on days 2 to 5 after administration (Fig. 1A).



This study says as previously mentioned, 1.7 days: The mean Tmax of TT was 1.7 days, and all cases reached Cmax within 3 days.

These results are consistent: levels hit their max levels after (keyword: "after") 24h.
1.7 days is > 36h (1.7 x 24 = [I'm on my phone, do the math yourself]). So, it is far away from your ≈ 12h mark.


You guys are quoting a single study from the 80's that's measuring both serum and salivary, but from the abstract one cannot discern what was measured (salivary or serum) at what times (and you would be surprised by how much variance there is between the use of "and" in abstracts relative to the methods used in the studies - specially, but not only, back in the day).


One thing that all contemporary studies also point out is that the levels of exogenous serum testosterone will vary greatly by administered dose (way more than injection site). You can read different studies with different dosages, and even studies that directly compare different dosages during a significant period of time, and check that out for yourself. From the abstract of your study from the 80's, it is not clear what's the dosage they used. They say: " injection of doses equivalent to 140 mg free testosterone". What's that? 150mg of enanthate? 200mg? What's the equivalence formula? As far as I know, you and me can inject exactly the same total amount of test enanthate, and end up with many mg difference of free testosterone at same periods after injection, depending on our physiological idiosyncrasies, diet, environmental exposures and so on.

The consensus in several recent studies is what I pointed out. The consensus in this forum is, well, the consensus in this forum.

I'm on my phone, so I won't bother gathering all the studies, but I encourage you to head over to Google scholar and check that out for yourself.

And read a little more than the abstract, please. Head over to the results section and give it a try. Also, pay attention if you're not reading results from salivary test.

 

[TRENdy07]

Lh and FSH will crash from test alone. Not everyone shutdown though so this isn’t a good indication of your hcg being legit or not

 

[CApump]

in reality im not too worried about the total test coming in at 5x my dose 60 hours later is pretty good? in the past even on higher doses im usually around 5x what im taking
im more concerned about my free test? why is it so low? should i pull shbg and see if thats sky high?
also yeah 500iu on the hcg my bad. and even when taking hcg would your lh/fsh come back crashed? thats why im thinking its bunk?

From what I understand, hcg mimics LH but suppresses your own LH production. So I think it’s expected that your LH value is low.

 

[Smashshit]

From what I understand, hcg mimics LH but suppresses your own LH production. So I think it’s expected that your LH value is low.

This is my understanding of hcg as well. Putting it on a pregnancy test will tell if it’s real or not.

 

[easyroller91]

Put some of the QSC HCG on a pregnancy test came back positive one line was less visible than the other
Received a new pack of ZyHCG which i put on another pegnancy test and got the same reading so they both seem GTG.
I was getting some PIP from the QSC HCG area was red for 1-2 days post injection and a little sore which ive never experienced before from any other source so thats why i was a little concerned

regarding the less than optimal free test level though should i pull SHBG to see if thats high or just keep things going as is?

 

[HB_22]

I was getting some PIP from the QSC HCG area was red for 1-2 days post injection and a little sore which ive never experienced before from any other source

I have that too from QSC's hcg, but I had other hcg from different where ocassionally I got some pip too. Not sure how or why this is happeneing, but I don't think it's a big problem. The hcg itself is working.

 

[BigJ89]

Pregnancy test isn’t very reliable. It’s either HPLC or get your HCG levels tested when you pull bloods, that’s what I was doing but even then you have no idea if it’s dosed right but it will atleast show elevated HCG levels if it’s legit

 

[DocThomas]

I might have missed this BUT..

What is your normal baseline bloods including liver function tests? Or did I miss that? Yes im new here but this is an interesting thread. Are you taking any medications such antidepressants etc or other meds that can interfere with the endocrine system indirectly? This is just to satisfy my curiosity of this thread topic.