HCG worth it?

[Type-IIx]

Thx Guys; You are absolutley correct. I appreciate you both taking the time to respond. My reference terminology (due to brain rust) is incorrect but my point (question) is valid between SERM and AI. My apologies for the confusion. I meant to say that Clomid would target receptor sites specific to the Testes/Leydig cells and if so, provide added benefit, vs using Adex alone (Is this correct?) So, has there been added benefit in using a SERM like Clomid and HCG simultaneously while on TRT - due to the specific action of ""reduction of intratesticular E2 concentrations?"

Basically, does the SERM potentiate the effects of HCG within the leydig cells due to the "reduction of intratesticular E2 concentrations?" - I've looked for scientific articles specifically mentioning this, but didn't find any via query in the Science Direct database.

Everything that everybody need to know about efficacy/tolerability and the rationales supporting the use of SERMs vs. AIs, etc.:

Anabolic Steroids and Fertility

Anabolic steroids don’t only affect the endogenous testosterone production, but also sperm production—a process called spermatogenesis. In this article I will walk you through how spermatogenesis works, how anabolic steroid use ties into this, and what you can possibly do about this.

thinksteroids.com

Enclomiphene - A SERM That was Seeking FDA Approval for the Treatment of Hypogonadism - MESO-Rx

Repros Therapeutics Inc, made an attempt at making a SERM approved by the FDA for the treatment of secondary hypogonadism. Before I continue about how this process went, I’d like to provide some background on their SERM: enclomiphene citrate (brand name Androxal, later rebranded to EnCyzix).

thinksteroids.com

I will reply to you answer, as concisely as I can:

There is no benefit to a SERM in combination with an AI. In fact, the two often oppose one another, reducing bioavailability.

One may be rationally used, I suppose, but don't see as well supported, to modulate increased E2 from hCG.. since Leydig cell T synthesis leads to early/rapid E2 increases... but still, not advisable.

Don't try to be clever, bros. It's usually not your strong suit. Accept that, it's OK. KISS; Occam's razor, etc.

 

[RockoJocko]

Everything that everybody need to know about efficacy/tolerability and the rationales supporting the use of SERMs vs. AIs, etc.:

Anabolic Steroids and Fertility

Anabolic steroids don’t only affect the endogenous testosterone production, but also sperm production—a process called spermatogenesis. In this article I will walk you through how spermatogenesis works, how anabolic steroid use ties into this, and what you can possibly do about this.

thinksteroids.com

Enclomiphene - A SERM That was Seeking FDA Approval for the Treatment of Hypogonadism - MESO-Rx

Repros Therapeutics Inc, made an attempt at making a SERM approved by the FDA for the treatment of secondary hypogonadism. Before I continue about how this process went, I’d like to provide some background on their SERM: enclomiphene citrate (brand name Androxal, later rebranded to EnCyzix).

thinksteroids.com

I will reply to you answer, as concisely as I can:

There is no benefit to a SERM in combination with an AI. In fact, the two often oppose one another, reducing bioavailability.

One may be rationally used, I suppose, but don't see as well supported, to modulate increased E2 from hCG.. since Leydig cell T synthesis leads to early/rapid E2 increases... but still, not advisable.

Don't try to be clever, bros. It's usually not your strong suit. Accept that, it's OK. KISS; Occam's razor, etc.

 

[RockoJocko]

thank you.

I do appreciate everyone's time and effort to respond. The combined knowledge and care are what make this Forum such a treasure.

 

[DarkStalker]

I use HCG, makes a difference!

 

[runway]

I took about 2500-5000 hcg per week for 3 weeks now (on a blast, 250-500 iu daily, tried to kickstart my balls), even dropped the npp for the last 3 weeks, but my balls didn't really grow, maybe about 10%.

How over is it? I got higher estrogen sides, even some ED issues instead.

I'm aware i'm probably overdoing the dose, was kinda experimenting. But now i'm curious if a lower dose will do anything at all.

I got the last QSC batch, which was between 2500-5000 iu per vial, so i can't say how much i took really.

Am I expecting too much from hcg? Guess i shouldn't expect enclomiphene-like tennis balls from it on a blast.

 

[Eddie.]

I took about 2500-5000 hcg per week for 3 weeks now (on a blast, 250-500 iu daily, tried to kickstart my balls), even dropped the npp for the last 3 weeks, but my balls didn't really grow, maybe about 10%.

How over is it? I got higher estrogen sides, even some ED issues instead.

I'm aware i'm probably overdoing the dose, was kinda experimenting. But now i'm curious if a lower dose will do anything at all.

I got the last QSC batch, which was between 2500-5000 iu per vial, so i can't say how much i took really.

Am I expecting too much from hcg? Guess i shouldn't expect enclomiphene-like tennis balls from it on a blast.

First i'm not sure how long does nandrolone to metabolize fully, perhaps you need more time, but there are guys that can't swole their balls back with HCG while they can regain fertility and there are guys like me for example that my balls shrunk even after one month at 210 test and they don't come back with HCG most probably because i have a varicocele and the blood flow down there is messing my balls. If i don't fix it surgically and continue blasting it will lead to atrophy. I tried 250 IU 3x week for 2 months from a UGL, it didn't do anything at all and then switched to pharma ovitrelle just to be sure that it wasn't because of a bunk or underdosed HCG and ended up doing 500IU 3 times a week for a month and still balls don't get any fuller. Maybe slightly, but it's negligible (if any). This simply means that even if i want to come off and pct it's impossible if i don't do the surgery. Have you used HCG in the past and experienced your balls growing full? If it's not that hard to visit a urologist to do a ultrasound (it's not bad afterall, you'll have medical screening about your reproductive organs) i suggest you to do it. So now i'm reading your post again, you say with enclomiphene they get swole? I have stacked some enclo but i've never tried it

 

[runway]

Have you used HCG in the past and experienced your balls growing full? If it's not that hard to visit a urologist to do a ultrasound (it's not bad afterall, you'll have medical screening about your reproductive organs) i suggest you to do it. So now i'm reading your post again, you say with enclomiphene they get swole? I have stacked some enclo but i've never tried it

Never tried hcg before. When I tried enclomiphene, i didn't do any steroids for years. Balls were bigger than ever from it. Most probably doesn't work on a trt/blast though.

Enclo made me highly emotional and bitchy, also made me feel like i had alzheimer... i forgot simple things like turning off the oven. So i will not try it again, even though the ball gains were insane.

 

[Eddie.]

Never tried hcg before. When I tried enclomiphene, i didn't do any steroids for years. Balls were bigger than ever from it. Most probably doesn't work on a trt/blast though.

Enclo made me highly emotional and bitchy, also made me feel like i had alzheimer... i forgot simple things like turning off the oven. So i will not try it again, even though the ball gains were insane.

Do you remember if you had bigger loads with enclo? This time with hcg did it raise your loads? Because many guys saying they're cumming buckets compared while on steroids without HCG. After just 3 months on test and loads are way less than when i was natty, HCG didn't do anything on that too. I've read the best for this though is clomid..is one of the pornstars secret, i'm guessing along with caber, proviron and who knows what else

 

[runway]

Do you remember if you had bigger loads with enclo? This time with hcg did it raise your loads? Because many guys saying they're cumming buckets compared while on steroids without HCG. After just 3 months on test and loads are way less than when i was natty. I've read the best for this though is clomid..is one of the pornstars secret, i'm guessing along with caber, proviron and who knows what else

Loads were bigger on enclo. On hcg, not really. Maybe i need to take it longer or wait until the supression from nandrolone stops. Ngl, expected way more from hcg.

 

[Eddie.]

Loads were bigger on enclo. On hcg, not really. Maybe i need to take it longer or wait until the supression from nandrolone stops. Ngl, expected way more from hcg.

Cool. I think there was not a reason to go that high that soon, you could start with 1000 or 1500 IU per week max and stay there, because you went on too much too soon and it's not sustainable, or doesn't worth it unless you're trying to regain fertility asap to make a child. If i was you i would stick to 1000 for sometime, to make sure nandrolone has cleared out and then proceed accordingly. I was expecting way more too tbh but in my case it may be due to the medical issue

 

[alpinism77]

When i am on hcg my libido is way higher and i deel better. But that can be plasebo too. Its mostly for natural production and fertility

Hey man. Was just curious what lab you run for HCG?
I've been on Test for a while. Girlfriend is not yet pregnant. Going to hop on some and try get the sperm up

Thanks for your help

 

[alpinism77]

Mine swelled back up after my second shot. I was doing 250-300iu eod for two weeks to jump start them. Now I’m doing 250iu M-W-F to keep them big.

Did you hear VigorousSteve talk about the HCG Losing potency when exposed to the water/air?
Just curious if you followed his advice to do the ampules instead, and if you did use the vial, did you notice any effect on potency as the bottle went on?

 

[Jabroni_Meathead]

Did you hear VigorousSteve talk about the HCG Losing potency when exposed to the water/air?
Just curious if you followed his advice to do the ampules instead, and if you did use the vial, did you notice any effect on potency as the bottle went on?

After i reconstitute i keep the vial in the fridge and I never had issues with it stop working so far.

 

[Eddie.]

Did you hear VigorousSteve talk about the HCG Losing potency when exposed to the water/air?
Just curious if you followed his advice to do the ampules instead, and if you did use the vial, did you notice any effect on potency as the bottle went on?

Use the vial for 2 weeks and then draw the rest into the slin pins and put them in freezer.

 

[alpinism77]

After i reconstitute i keep the vial in the fridge and I never had issues with it stop working so far.

Awesome, glad to hear man!

 

[Musmadar]

How about using UROFOLLITROPHIN for bigger balls and bigger loads, anyone did try it?

 

[EXCELLENTMENTALHEALTH]

I used it for years, 300iu MWF (900 total). No idea if it did anything (pharma and UGL). Been off it for a few months, will be happy to go back in when it arrives in a few weeks. But my e2 is always managed whatever I'm doing.

Does anyone run significantly higher doses of HCG though? Everyone and their mother runs 750-1000iu a week, curious if doing more would be like, bigger balls, better loads...

 

[Chips7]

I used it for years, 300iu MWF (900 total). No idea if it did anything (pharma and UGL). Been off it for a few months, will be happy to go back in when it arrives in a few weeks. But my e2 is always managed whatever I'm doing.

Does anyone run significantly higher doses of HCG though? Everyone and their mother runs 750-1000iu a week, curious if doing more would be like, bigger balls, better loads...

I am actually on TRT now, no AI, 500ui HCG a week in TOTAL .

I already tried between 1000 - 1500ui at the same TRT dose, but i feel the high E2, more bloated, difficulty to control my emotion ect,

But no real difference in Ball/Flacid Size or Load.

for me just find the right dosage that fit your E2 range.

for me 1000ng/dl Test For 50 Estrogen, Its perfect.

 

[OmL]

Just my own observation;

I have not used any HCG (or an equivalent) in over a year and I still have testicles. They kinda disappear after sex for a while, but they are there. Big enough to grab and/or hold.

 

[Bigbicep]

If I need some hcg I’ll just shoot my pregnant gfs piss lol