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[Richard322]

I am looking to add more mass , would I need I need to up the dose? Looks wise hgh is not doing anything

For an anabolic purpose, you said you were doing 6iu a day, you would be better of doing 12iu mon,wed,fri post workout. I’ve done 20iu everyday the side effects are a full time job to keep from getting out of control if you can. Right now I’m doing 15 mon, wed, fri and have zero sided besides I don’t sleep as well at higher doses. Methyl mike posted a good interview with Dorian Yates, in the interview he said one year he did 8iu everyday and another he did 16iu mon,wed,fri and made slot more progress as far as putting size on. If you do 12iu every other day make sure you get a blood sugar monitor to watch your bs. Go to the Walmart Pharmacy tell them you want over the counter novelin R insulin. It’s fast acting. You should always check my blood sugar before You use insulin so you know how much to take and how many carbs. I use a wieght gainer that has 223 carbs per serving. I usually do around 10iu of insulin pre workout with my wieght gainer and I drink about a 1/4 of it about 15 min after insulin and then another 1/4 or so during my workout. So get get about 110 carbs with 10 iu of insulin. But I always have extra so I can garuntee I will not go HYPO. The novelin R has 2 spike 15 min after injection and 2-3 hour after injection. So timing is important!! So 10iu of insulin, then workout hit it hard massive pump get home in time to take your HGH ready to eat for the 2nd insulin spike. The 2nd spike is the dangerous one because people forget! And when that spike hits you better have carbs ready or you got a serious problem! That’s why make your workout carb drink for the first spike double the carbs you need and only drink half so just in case that 2nd spike hits your good. Sound like a lot but I just don’t want to leave any detail out because it can be very dangerous if your not fully informed and needs to be taken very serious. So that’s the protocol I’m doing now. A much better way than 20iu of gh everyday, feel better, blood sugar has been good, blood pressure has been good, my hands haven’t went numb at all, my ankles aren’t swollen, I don’t have sleep apnea like I did and my joints do hurt either. These are all horrible side effects I dealt with using 20iu everyday. I’m at 15 iu EOD 3 days a week and side effect free so far and look full all the time as well. Hope this is helpful, hope the best for you.

 

[Richard322]

Why would it be hard on your pancreas? I never heard that before.

Growth hormone is a counter acting hormone to insulin. It inhibits insulin from getting to the receptor to lower your blood sugar so you pancreas has to produce a lot more insulin to get your blood sugar in check. When I use insulin with no growth hormone 10iu of insulin will drop my blood sugar 100 points or so. When I’ve used 20iu of growth everyday with with insulin, 10iu of insulin will drop my my blood sugar 20 to 40 points. At 20iu of growth I can do 30iu of insulin and 100 carbs will enough. While no growth I’d probly need closer to 300 carbs. And then you also go insulin resistant with high doses of hgh and the pancreases in forced to work even harder.

 

[Richard322]

Why would it be hard on your pancreas? I never heard that before.

That is high doses of hgh. Some will argue anything over 6iu a day, some will argue anything over 4iu a day. I’ve don’t 8 a day and my fasted blood sugar creeped over 100 after a couple months. At 20 iu every it takes 2 to 3 weeks to creep over 100. My fasted blood sugar got over 120, to fix it I took Dave palumbos advise and went keto and did long acting insulin at night. After a month I was back below 85. He says the long acting insulin at night giveD your pancreas a rest allowing the beta cells that are stressed time to heal.

 

[mtt]

Growth hormone is a counter acting hormone to insulin. It inhibits insulin from getting to the receptor to lower your blood sugar so you pancreas has to produce a lot more insulin to get your blood sugar in check. When I use insulin with no growth hormone 10iu of insulin will drop my blood sugar 100 points or so. When I’ve used 20iu of growth everyday with with insulin, 10iu of insulin will drop my my blood sugar 20 to 40 points. At 20iu of growth I can do 30iu of insulin and 100 carbs will enough. While no growth I’d probly need closer to 300 carbs. And then you also go insulin resistant with high doses of hgh and the pancreases in forced to work even harder.

10ius of slin will drop your blood sugar by 100 points? You'd be dead before that happens, unless, of course, you having a fasting blood sugar level of at least 175. But if that's the case then you have more problems than GH levels.

And it's just the opposite in the body's natural state. Insulin inhibits GH, not vice versa. That's why one shouldn't eat simple carbs, or carbs in general before going to sleep. This will raise blood sugar suppressing GH release.

Now if you are injecting GH, natural insulin production will increase depending on the blood sugar level. You can inject all the GH you want but it will not suppress insulin. If blood sugar is high insulin production will increase. Think about it. Can you survive with very low GH, or even none at all? Can you survive or even remain conscious with very low blood sugar? My natural baseline IGF level is at 53 ng/ml so I am producing very little GH at my age (61) but this has had zero effect on my fast blood sugar level which is well within the reference range.

Yeah seems like a waist of money at this point , I was expecting much more. I have lost body fat but I have also increased cardio so and diet is good. I’m dropping weight pretty quick which was not the goal. I wanted to stay away from gear , I take prescription test and deca every 7 months for my shoulder. So am I wasting my money here since I was expecting to pack on size with hgh ?

How old are you? Unless you intend to compete and need to get to 275-300lbs, I wouldn't use it if you are under 30 or 35 years old. You will do fine with just gear. Remember, Arnold, Zane, Oliva, Nubret all got physiques without HGH.

 

[mtt]

Also all this talk the gains you make on hgh is the gains you keep . So that’s not the case ?

Nothing lasts forever but if you keep training and juicing you will not only keep your "gains" but increase it as well. But that would happen whether you use GH or not. But that's assuming you are still young. As you get older you will begin to lose everything or near everything as the years wear on.

 

[Venroc]

10ius of slin will drop your blood sugar by 100 points? You'd be dead before that happens, unless, of course, you having a fasting blood sugar level of at least 175. But if that's the case then you have more problems than GH levels.

And it's just the opposite in the body's natural state. Insulin inhibits GH, not vice versa. That's why one shouldn't eat simple carbs, or carbs in general before going to sleep. This will raise blood sugar suppressing GH release.

Now if you are injecting GH, natural insulin production will increase depending on the blood sugar level. You can inject all the GH you want but it will not suppress insulin. If blood sugar is high insulin production will increase. Think about it. Can you survive with very low GH, or even none at all? Can you survive or even remain conscious with very low blood sugar? My natural baseline IGF level is at 53 ng/ml so I am producing very little GH at my age (61) but this has had zero effect on my fast blood sugar level which is well within the reference range.

How old are you? Unless you intend to compete and need to get to 275-300lbs, I wouldn't use it if you are under 30 or 35 years old. You will do fine with just gear. Remember, Arnold, Zane, Oliva, Nubret all got physiques without HGH.

I am 32 and I am trying to stay away from gear and just use my TRT and GH. That was the plan

 

[Richard322]

10ius of slin will drop your blood sugar by 100 points? You'd be dead before that happens, unless, of course, you having a fasting blood sugar level of at least 175. But if that's the case then you have more problems than GH levels.

And it's just the opposite in the body's natural state. Insulin inhibits GH, not vice versa. That's why one shouldn't eat simple carbs, or carbs in general before going to sleep. This will raise blood sugar suppressing GH release.

Now if you are injecting GH, natural insulin production will increase depending on the blood sugar level. You can inject all the GH you want but it will not suppress insulin. If blood sugar is high insulin production will increase. Think about it. Can you survive with very low GH, or even none at all? Can you survive or even remain conscious with very low blood sugar? My natural baseline IGF level is at 53 ng/ml so I am producing very little GH at my age (61) but this has had zero effect on my fast blood sugar level which is well within the reference range.

How old are you? Unless you intend to compete and need to get to 275-300lbs, I wouldn't use it if you are under 30 or 35 years old. You will do fine with just gear. Remember, Arnold, Zane, Oliva, Nubret all got physiques without HGH.

If your blood sugar is at 110 and you take 10iu of insulin and you wait until you start feeling hypo which I’ve done and check your blood sugar again and it’s 50 it dropped 60 points and you eat 100 carbs and it takes back to 80 when you started at 110 that mean it dropped it a total of 100 points with 100 carbs. Yes with zero carbs it would kill you.

Yes your body won’t produce GH while insulin is present that doesn’t mean you body won’t produce it because the growth is oppressing it. Yes obviously they are not suppose to be naturally present at the same time but why the body does it could be for many different reasons. As far GH prevent insulin from getting to the insulin receptor to lower your blood sugar could be wrong. Colette Nelson who is an expert says that. Dave palumbo also and a couple other professional body builders have said the same. Colette Nelson said a lot of her aids patients become type two diabetics because of the many years of growth hormone use wears out the beta cells in the pancreas. I myself experienced High fasted blood sugar from too much growth. That why we take insulin with high doses Of growth hormone to assist the pacreas from out extra strain on it. Without insulin with high doses of hgh you will become a type 2 diabetic where your pancreas won’t produce enough insulin from burning out the beta cells by over working them.

 

[Richard322]

If your blood sugar is at 110 and you take 10iu of insulin and you wait until you start feeling hypo which I’ve done and check your blood sugar again and it’s 50 it dropped 60 points and you eat 100 carbs and it takes back to 80 when you started at 110 that mean it dropped it a total of 100 points with 100 carbs. Yes with zero carbs it would kill you.

Yes your body won’t produce GH while insulin is present that doesn’t mean you body won’t produce it because the growth is oppressing it. Yes obviously they are not suppose to be naturally present at the same time but why the body does it could be for many different reasons. As far GH prevent insulin from getting to the insulin receptor to lower your blood sugar could be wrong. Colette Nelson who is an expert says that. Dave palumbo also and a couple other professional body builders have said the same. Colette Nelson said a lot of her aids patients become type two diabetics because of the many years of growth hormone use wears out the beta cells in the pancreas. I myself experienced High fasted blood sugar from too much growth. That why we take insulin with high doses Of growth hormone to assist the pacreas from out extra strain on it. Without insulin with high doses of hgh you will become a type 2 diabetic where your pancreas won’t produce enough insulin from burning out the beta cells by over working them.

Sorry had a math error on calculating blood sugar it would be 90 but the concept of how you calculate the drop is there or how you know 10iu will drop it 100 point with 100carbs without dying.

 

[Richard322]

10ius of slin will drop your blood sugar by 100 points? You'd be dead before that happens, unless, of course, you having a fasting blood sugar level of at least 175. But if that's the case then you have more problems than GH levels.

And it's just the opposite in the body's natural state. Insulin inhibits GH, not vice versa. That's why one shouldn't eat simple carbs, or carbs in general before going to sleep. This will raise blood sugar suppressing GH release.

Now if you are injecting GH, natural insulin production will increase depending on the blood sugar level. You can inject all the GH you want but it will not suppress insulin. If blood sugar is high insulin production will increase. Think about it. Can you survive with very low GH, or even none at all? Can you survive or even remain conscious with very low blood sugar? My natural baseline IGF level is at 53 ng/ml so I am producing very little GH at my age (61) but this has had zero effect on my fast blood sugar level which is well within the reference range.

How old are you? Unless you intend to compete and need to get to 275-300lbs, I wouldn't use it if you are under 30 or 35 years old. You will do fine with just gear. Remember, Arnold, Zane, Oliva, Nubret all got physiques without HGH.

View: https://youtu.be/jiuZ9Jd89Jw

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Richard322]

10ius of slin will drop your blood sugar by 100 points? You'd be dead before that happens, unless, of course, you having a fasting blood sugar level of at least 175. But if that's the case then you have more problems than GH levels.

And it's just the opposite in the body's natural state. Insulin inhibits GH, not vice versa. That's why one shouldn't eat simple carbs, or carbs in general before going to sleep. This will raise blood sugar suppressing GH release.

Now if you are injecting GH, natural insulin production will increase depending on the blood sugar level. You can inject all the GH you want but it will not suppress insulin. If blood sugar is high insulin production will increase. Think about it. Can you survive with very low GH, or even none at all? Can you survive or even remain conscious with very low blood sugar? My natural baseline IGF level is at 53 ng/ml so I am producing very little GH at my age (61) but this has had zero effect on my fast blood sugar level which is well within the reference range.

How old are you? Unless you intend to compete and need to get to 275-300lbs, I wouldn't use it if you are under 30 or 35 years old. You will do fine with just gear. Remember, Arnold, Zane, Oliva, Nubret all got physiques without HGH.

Not saying I’m right but that’s the way I understand it. That’s my experience with high doses of hgh. Blood sugar always creeps on me unles I use insuilin with it. If you have good info or advice I’d be thankful for the help.

 

[TheDogSoldier]

You guys are playing with fire. Your sugar is creeping up because the GH is making your body *resistant* to your own insulin. Then you pin insulin, which makes your body *more* resistant to insulin. Can you say diabetes?

 

[Heavy Iron]

You guys are playing with fire. Your sugar is creeping up because the GH is making your body *resistant* to your own insulin. Then you pin insulin, which makes your body *more* resistant to insulin. Can you say diabetes?

Yeah bro that sounded fucking crazy...

@Richard322 I take it you compete?


I view HGH almost as a very expensive supplement for anabolics. I have never ran it but am about to. And it seems like there is a big diminishing return as far as how high maintenance it can be when running high doses.

 

[Neewbiest guy]

Yeah bro that sounded fucking crazy...

@Richard322 I take it you compete?


I view HGH almost as a very expensive supplement for anabolics. I have never ran it but am about to. And it seems like there is a big diminishing return as far as how high maintenance it can be when running high doses.

Is there a Specific reason that a lot of guys run high doses like that? I’ve read where guys that are only running 2 to 4 IU a day are getting benefits from running GH, without the sides due to the lower doses. I haven’t run it myself but I’ve been reading a ton because I’d like to try and run it.

 

[Richard322]

You guys are playing with fire. Your sugar is creeping up because the GH is making your body *resistant* to your own insulin. Then you pin insulin, which makes your body *more* resistant to insulin. Can you say diabetes?

Bingo that’s 1 or 2 problems with hgh doses of hgh. And not saying take more insulin, yes that would make the problem worse. That’s why you watch your fasted blood sugar when it starts creeping up you stop the hgh and go keto.

 

[Richard322]

You guys are playing with fire. Your sugar is creeping up because the GH is making your body *resistant* to your own insulin. Then you pin insulin, which makes your body *more* resistant to insulin. Can you say diabetes?

Number two it’s hard on your pancreas, that’s where insulin come into play.

 

[Heavy Iron]

Is there a Specific reason that a lot of guys run high doses like that? I’ve read where guys that are only running 2 to 4 IU a day are getting benefits from running GH, without the sides due to the lower doses. I haven’t run it myself but I’ve been reading a ton because I’d like to try and run it.

That's why I was asking him. My plan is to work up to 4iu and just roll with that and see where it takes me. I see absolutely no reason to run so much that you're risking your health on a serious level unless you compete on a high level.

Lol like Seth Feroce says .... I'm just trying to look good naked.

 

[Richard322]

You guys are playing with fire. Your sugar is creeping up because the GH is making your body *resistant* to your own insulin. Then you pin insulin, which makes your body *more* resistant to insulin. Can you say diabetes?

View: https://youtu.be/jiuZ9Jd89Jw

Watch and you’ll full understand the use of insulin in body building with growth hormone. Most people think it’s for performance purpose and that’s just not the case.

 

[B Ware]

When I’ve used 20iu of growth everyday

Got any labs to share? Don’t think I’ve ever seen any from guys who run 10iu+. Would be interesting and educational to see where these high doses put igf1 and thyroid levels at.

 

[Richard322]

Got any labs to share? Don’t think I’ve ever seen any from guys who run 10iu+. Would be interesting and educational to see where these high doses put igf1 and thyroid levels at.

I’m getting blood work Monday I’ll throw in an igf1 test with it curious myself. I’m doing 15 3 days a week now but I’ll do 20iu for the test.

 

[mtt]

You guys are playing with fire. Your sugar is creeping up because the GH is making your body *resistant* to your own insulin. Then you pin insulin, which makes your body *more* resistant to insulin. Can you say diabetes?

I'll address Richard's post later when I have more time as I want to watch the vid he posted and our discussion is a lot more involved.

I want to question your claim that exogenous insulin will make you more insulting resistant. How so? You become more insulin resistant, eventually getting to the stage where you have type 2 diabetes, by your body constantly producing insulin due to being in a constant state of having high blood sugar. Long term use of high dosages of HGH and/or constantly eating carbs and sugar base foods will keep your blood sugar levels high causing this constant release of insulin.Your pancreas is working overtime. By taking exogenous insulin you relieve that stress on your pancreas because it lowers blood sugar.

We all become more insulin resistant as we get older because of decades and decades of just eating. Not to the stage where it's a problem but it's not the same in your 60s as it was in your 20s. If you compare your blood sugar level at 21 years old, say it's around 75, by the time you are 60 it will be higher, maybe 95, even though nothing has changed. It's just from getting older.

There are some doctors that believe that if you are getting on in years and your fasting blood sugar level is starting to get over a hundred, you should take a long-acting insulin injection so that you will have more slin running through your system to aid the pancreas which is starting to "wear out".

Insulin lowers blood sugar. I don't see how that would make you more resistant to it. I see how it will burn out the pancreas by forcing it to constantly produce insulin but not by injecting it.