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mtt said:
I'll address Richard's post later when I have more time as I want to watch the vid he posted and our discussion is a lot more involved.

I want to question your claim that exogenous insulin will make you more insulting resistant. How so? You become more insulin resistant, eventually getting to the stage where you have type 2 diabetes, by your body constantly producing insulin due to being in a constant state of having high blood sugar. Long term use of high dosages of HGH and/or constantly eating carbs and sugar base foods will keep your blood sugar levels high causing this constant release of insulin.Your pancreas is working overtime. By taking exogenous insulin you relieve that stress on your pancreas because it lowers blood sugar.

We all become more insulin resistant as we get older because of decades and decades of just eating. Not to the stage where it's a problem but it's not the same in your 60s as it was in your 20s. If you compare your blood sugar level at 21 years old, say it's around 75, by the time you are 60 it will be higher, maybe 95, even though nothing has changed. It's just from getting older.

There are some doctors that believe that if you are getting on in years and your fasting blood sugar level is starting to get over a hundred, you should take a long-acting insulin injection so that you will have more slin running through your system to aid the pancreas which is starting to "wear out".

Insulin lowers blood sugar. I don't see how that would make you more resistant to it. I see how it will burn out the pancreas by forcing it to constantly produce insulin but not by injecting it.
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Great discussion, totally agree 100% and well put. I think the insulin resistance comes into play when taking carbs to chase insulin rather than taking the right amount of insulin for the carb you plan on eating to aid the pancreas to take the stress off it. I think when you take 20iu of insulin because you were told that’s what you take to get big or for performance purposes then youR forced hammer 300 carbs to keep up with the insulin to prevent from going hypo is where insulin resistant comes into play. But with growth hormone in high doses in my experience it takes a lot more insulin to lower your blood sugar. So its a two edged sword, meaning wheather it’s used for appropriatly or abused. In the case of high dose hgh I would be curious to know how many pro body builders that have gone diabetic from long period use of high doses. I heard Dave palumbo say that he knew of a lot of guys in the 90s that went diabetic from high doses in those days before they started using insulin with hgh to prevent that. But I even with the use of insulin with hgh over time you get insulin resistant, from my experience the last time I did 20iu of hgh everyday which I will never do again and was a nightmare side effect wise, in the end I was taking 40iu of fast acting novilin R with hgh. and what 40iu of insulin did in end was doing the same as 10iu when I started. And what a nightmare. In the end I weighed 250 left with high fasted blood sugar, swollen ankles, high blood pressure, hands completely numb, pain in hands and feet to the depth of my bones to the point I couldnt sleep and my joints hurt to the point I modified my workout to high intensity high rep training 20 to 30 reps to failure, all this happened in 6 weeks of 20iu of hgh everyday no break. In the process of getting healthy no hgh, no gear except testosterone, keto diet lots of cardio, a month later 220 pounds. I lost 30 pounds much of that water weight and carbs, I guess I’m putting it all out there hoping my experience will inform or help others on the dangers, insanity and stupidity of doing what I did thinking I was going to get a permanent muscle gain or divide some muscle cells as they claim. I just wanna say there are ways to do it with out all that unnecessary risk. I’m going on my third week at 15iu hgh 3 days a week with zero side effects so far weighing in between 235 and 240 depending on how much time I spend in the sun at work. I plan on doing one more week then back to 2iu in the am.
 
Got my blood order in for basic hormone/metabolic panel with igf1 and growth hormone serum. Will be getting blood drawn Monday and will 20iu of hgh 2-1/2 to 3 hours prior depending when they draw it. I’m just hoping I don’t score like Boston loyd.
 
mtt said:
Yes

Yup, blast and cruise. High dose 8-12 weeks, maintenance 4-8 or however you prefer.
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Ok so been hitting 6ius a day and starting to ge the numb hands . Going to try go back down to 5iua or 4uis a day depending on how it feels. Any help with anything to take for the numb hands?
 
Venroc said:
Ok so been hitting 6ius a day and starting to ge the numb hands . Going to try go back down to 5iua or 4uis a day depending on how it feels. Any help with anything to take for the numb hands?
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The numb hands is a tuff one. Most guys have success with starting at 1 iu a day and titrating up 1 unit every 2 to 3 weeks. I’d go 6 iu EOD and take the weekend off till it goes away, that is if it does. Sometimes you have to completely stop depending on how bad it is.
 
Venroc said:
Hwl

How long do you cycle GH at a time ? Do people cruise on this shit
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Got on feb 2019 haven’t got off since …prob won’t ever get off it as long as opti is in business ….normally every 6 months I walk pass the mirror and I’m like dayummm who’s the cut stud ….I think hgh is more for a cut and lean look …if you wanna lean out and look like a Greek statue or a dorito then hgh is great but gaining mass I can’t say I did …I just sculpted what’s there
 
Richard322 said:
The numb hands is a tuff one. Most guys have success with starting at 1 iu a day and titrating up 1 unit every 2 to 3 weeks. I’d go 6 iu EOD and take the weekend off till it goes away, that is if it does. Sometimes you have to completely stop depending on how bad it is.
Click to expand...
Ok I will try that and see how it goes. Otherwise stop completely till it goes away and tHen work my way up again ?
 
Breedingbull said:
Got on feb 2019 haven’t got off since …prob won’t ever get off it as long as opti is in business ….normally every 6 months I walk pass the mirror and I’m like dayummm who’s the cut stud ….I think hgh is more for a cut and lean look …if you wanna lean out and look like a Greek statue or a dorito then hgh is great but gaining mass I can’t say I did …I just sculpted what’s there
Click to expand...
Lol that’s funny. How many ius do you take or what’s your cycles? I don’t want to come off either depending on the numb hands. Been on for about 4 months now , started at 1uis and worked up to 6uis. My diet is good and been hitting more cardio, I want to say my veins are popping out more and leaning out. Also at my lowest weight 185 and everyone at the gym still thinks I’m 205-210lbs so something must be working where I thought nothing was.
 
mtt said:
We all become more insulin resistant as we get older because of decades and decades of just eating. Not to the stage where it's a problem but it's not the same in your 60s as it was in your 20s. If you compare your blood sugar level at 21 years old, say it's around 75, by the time you are 60 it will be higher, maybe 95, even though nothing has changed. It's just from getting older.
Click to expand...
You can restore fasting blood sugar even as you age with fasting or restricting calories.

Most folks as they age never do this. Most folks as they age add bodyfat, both subcutaneous and visceral, especially around the pancreas.

Starvation removes that fat around the pancreas, too.
 
Richard322 said:
Great discussion, totally agree 100% and well put. I think the insulin resistance comes into play when taking carbs to chase insulin rather than taking the right amount of insulin for the carb you plan on eating to aid the pancreas to take the stress off it. I think when you take 20iu of insulin because you were told that’s what you take to get big or for performance purposes then youR forced hammer 300 carbs to keep up with the insulin to prevent from going hypo is where insulin resistant comes into play. But with growth hormone in high doses in my experience it takes a lot more insulin to lower your blood sugar. So its a two edged sword, meaning wheather it’s used for appropriatly or abused. In the case of high dose hgh I would be curious to know how many pro body builders that have gone diabetic from long period use of high doses. I heard Dave palumbo say that he knew of a lot of guys in the 90s that went diabetic from high doses in those days before they started using insulin with hgh to prevent that. But I even with the use of insulin with hgh over time you get insulin resistant, from my experience the last time I did 20iu of hgh everyday which I will never do again and was a nightmare side effect wise, in the end I was taking 40iu of fast acting novilin R with hgh. and what 40iu of insulin did in end was doing the same as 10iu when I started. And what a nightmare. In the end I weighed 250 left with high fasted blood sugar, swollen ankles, high blood pressure, hands completely numb, pain in hands and feet to the depth of my bones to the point I couldnt sleep and my joints hurt to the point I modified my workout to high intensity high rep training 20 to 30 reps to failure, all this happened in 6 weeks of 20iu of hgh everyday no break. In the process of getting healthy no hgh, no gear except testosterone, keto diet lots of cardio, a month later 220 pounds. I lost 30 pounds much of that water weight and carbs, I guess I’m putting it all out there hoping my experience will inform or help others on the dangers, insanity and stupidity of doing what I did thinking I was going to get a permanent muscle gain or divide some muscle cells as they claim. I just wanna say there are ways to do it with out all that unnecessary risk. I’m going on my third week at 15iu hgh 3 days a week with zero side effects so far weighing in between 235 and 240 depending on how much time I spend in the sun at work. I plan on doing one more week then back to 2iu in the am.
Click to expand...

So you found a way that sucks for you to build mass.

What has worked the best for you in terms of how to build mass? I am not hearing you exactly raving about the 15 iu 3 days a week as your best bulker ever.

Are you still in the stage of experimenting to discover what works for you?
 
malfeasance said:
So you found a way that sucks for you to build mass.

What has worked the best for you in terms of how to build mass? I am not hearing you exactly raving about the 15 iu 3 days a week as your best bulker ever.

Are you still in the stage of experimenting to discover what works for
Click to expand...

malfeasance said:
Sometimes I feel like building mass without getting fat is impossible. For this gh thing i was told that you split 1 big cell into 2 small muscle cells, then you have to develop those cells to get the gain so you really don’t see the result until the next year. I don’t know if that’s true but I’ll be able to testify in the next 8 months to a year. 15iu 3 days a weeks has so far is been the best proto call for me and most enjoyable. I’m still learning, still trying to figure out this thing. When I did 20iu gh I used anadrol with it for the first four weeks. This go around just test. I wish I could say gained 15 to 20 pounds of mass but the truth is how much water how much carbs and excess fat with it? I weighed 238 this morning, if I carb depleted I can weigh 228 in 5 days. Lose some water and be close back to 220 although I’m not retaining nearly as much water as I was at 20iu protocol. So I guess this protocol I like the best but am I building real muscle mass, actual muscle tissue? Time will tell but I just wanna learn how to do it without ruining my health which I was heading down that road.
Click to expand...
 
Venroc said:
Ok I will try that and see how it goes. Otherwise stop completely till it goes away and tHen work my way up again ?
Click to expand...
If you take a break since you’ve been using it already you can probably start again at 4iu ED or 8 EOD and be fine. When I ran up to 20iu ED and completely stopped when I started again I started at 15iu EOD and no numb hands at all so far and on my third week. I’m still learning brother but that’s my experience.
 
Venroc said:
Lol that’s funny. How many ius do you take or what’s your cycles? I don’t want to come off either depending on the numb hands. Been on for about 4 months now , started at 1uis and worked up to 6uis. My diet is good and been hitting more cardio, I want to say my veins are popping out more and leaning out. Also at my lowest weight 185 and everyone at the gym still thinks I’m 205-210lbs so something must be working where I thought nothing was.
Click to expand...
I started at 1 and slowly worked up to 3 within 6 months …some black tops I was doing gave me crazy sides for months but once I broke the threshold I could handle 4 iu with minimal sides

now I run between 4-5 iu and have for at least a year on opti ……cycles ? Lol 24/365 x 2 years

I was attacked by 4 dudes a few weeks ago and my wrist was so strong it was taking blows from a crow bar and didn’t fracture or nothing and I fully believe that’s bc of my extensive growth usage

my beard is thick AF

libido is strong

Sleep like a baby and feel refreshed when I wake up

skin soft
 
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