Thegodofwar
New Member
100 percent it’s from the hcg….
Do you realise that hcg raises e2 through the roof?
Cmon man you must know this
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
High e2 on 2.5mg anastrozole per week
- Thread starter HUGE McBIGLARGE
- Start date
Do you realise that hcg raises e2 through the roof?
Cmon man you must know this
Thegodofwar
New Member
Brother you are using hcg everyday what do you expect???
Cut out the hcg and then retest you will realise I am right.
Of anyone tells you otherwise I would be weary of their advice.
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
Yeah that’s what I’m gonna do.
Im gonna do just T and proviron, AI the e2 into range, then retest twice to confirm my e2 is stable. Then add HCG at the same dose for a month and test again to see how much my e2 rises. If it is the HCG I’ll then have a big think about how much I regret buying a few years worth of HCG
readalot
Member
In addition, if you really want to go down the rabbit hole do a series of experiments with (+)hCG at different letro dosing and populate your dose response curve
.Good luck with the (-)hCG experiment.
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
Yeah I’ll consider that. Bit harder for me to get letro thoughIn addition, if you really want to go down the rabbit hole do a series of experiments with (+)hCG at different letro dosing and populate your dose response curve
Good luck with the (-)hCG experiment.
I might just ditch the HCG entirely if I feel fine. I’ve had a vasectomy anyway so it’s not like I wanna preserve fertility. I just wanted the theoretical downstream hormone effects from the HCG. But if it means indiscriminately inhibiting aromatase, I think I’d fare better with a low/no AI dose than a big AI dose and HCG.
readalot
Member
Agreed. Was just speaking more hypothetically. Take care of yourself. Personally I can't justify running an AI long term for myself.
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
Thanks man. Glad I’ve got a plan going forward now.
And thanks to everyone else for the help
I have used HCG for over 20 years regularly with no issues. Many have no problem when taking it. But if you have some studies showing different i am more then willing to read them.. Thanks.
Grey Spartan
Member
I second this. I did an experiment, took 350-400iu Every other day and dropped the AI. My estrogen only raised to 40. I was also taking 100mg Test C twice a week.
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
any idea why my e2 was so high then?
As I wrote before...
Taking HCG increases aromatase activity in Leydig cells in the testes. Under normal circumstances, there is roughly 20% aromatization of TST in the testes. If men start taking AAS, which are suppressive and reduce the production of endogenous TST in the testes, aromatization in the testes will decline. Adding HCG to the cycle will in turn return it to its original level, which should not exceed 20% at normal HCG doses of 250 to 500 iu every 3 to 4 days. In other words, at normal doses of HCG, you don't have to worry about too much increased aromatization activity and therefore high E2 levels.
“Hcg increases e2 to the roof is just fucking broscience”
Taking HCG increases aromatase activity in Leydig cells in the testes. Under normal circumstances, there is roughly 20% aromatization of TST in the testes. If men start taking AAS, which are suppressive and reduce the production of endogenous TST in the testes, aromatization in the testes will decline. Adding HCG to the cycle will in turn return it to its original level, which should not exceed 20% at normal HCG doses of 250 to 500 iu every 3 to 4 days. In other words, at normal doses of HCG, you don't have to worry about too much increased aromatization activity and therefore high E2 levels.
“Hcg increases e2 to the roof is just fucking broscience”
Whats your test on bloods?
Shbg?
do 500ui 2x week instead of pinning every day, max peak in e2 is around 24hr from your pin
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
I don’t have a better explanation though.
The below are the results of a test I did a few years ago while on 1000mg test undeconate every 70 days. No HCG. No AI. E2 nice and normal.
The below was 6 months ago. I was on the 54mg TE EoD for about a month at the time. 1mg anastrozole per week. I had stopped Testogel for 96 hours; enough for a full washout. 200iu HCG every other day.
And here’s what I last tested as. Less TE, 2.5x the AI, and 50% more HCG dosed daily instead of EOD. I also took 0.5mg anastrozole 16 hours prior to the blood draw, rather than 24 hours with the previous test
The only other explanation is that my testosterone was somehow much higher on those doses, but I doubt it. Or maybe that the mt2 or pt141 is somehow estrogenic.
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HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
Testosterone? Not sure. I can guess around 50nmol/l, but I didn’t test it as most of the time the tests cap at 52.
SHBG wasn’t tested either. Likely around 30nmol/l
Would daily pinning cause a disproportionate rise in e2 relative to the total weekly dose? If so, that might explain it.
Grey Spartan
Member
We all respond differently. The HCG defiantly raises your e2, so start with that and check blood work. Pinning daily could cause a build up, but I have never tried it on myself so I can not give you a "for sure" answer.
readalot
Member
To be clear for future readers, the post I shared shares references that indicate letro absolutely does cross into testes.
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
Got my estradiol tested.
Was on:
-90mg test E every other day subq for 2 weeks
-0.5mg anastrozole 5x per week for 2 weeks
-Not taken HCG for nearly a month
At 224pmol/L I’m thinking it wasn’t the HCG causing the high e2 after all. Here are my two previous tests:
Ignore the testosterone level. The sample was likely contaminated with my Testogel. My testosterone is actually around 80nmol/L on 300mg testosterone
I’m guessing I’m just a high aromatiser. But why? Should I be using something other than anastrozole? Could it be because I’m injecting subq?
I’m thinking of switching to the following:
-60mg test EOD
-100iu HCG ahain
-3mg anastrozole per week
I feel like I shouldn’t be even taking an AI on 210mg testosterone, so to be taking 3mg seems insane.
Any ideas?
Was on:
-90mg test E every other day subq for 2 weeks
-0.5mg anastrozole 5x per week for 2 weeks
-Not taken HCG for nearly a month
At 224pmol/L I’m thinking it wasn’t the HCG causing the high e2 after all. Here are my two previous tests:
Ignore the testosterone level. The sample was likely contaminated with my Testogel. My testosterone is actually around 80nmol/L on 300mg testosterone
I’m guessing I’m just a high aromatiser. But why? Should I be using something other than anastrozole? Could it be because I’m injecting subq?
I’m thinking of switching to the following:
-60mg test EOD
-100iu HCG ahain
-3mg anastrozole per week
I feel like I shouldn’t be even taking an AI on 210mg testosterone, so to be taking 3mg seems insane.
Any ideas?
HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
I’ve had a dig through more of my past blood tests, and it seems like the e2 is pretty much random every time. The testosterone enanthate and anastrozole dosage are poor predictors of e2.
I have done exclusively subq injections on my last two tests, and those are the two where my e2 was the most unexpectedly high. On the other tests I altered between subq or IM depending on what I fancied doing on the day.
Looking at when I used to take Testogel, 1mg of anastrozole per week was enough to half my e2. So I’m really confused here.
Going forwards I’m going to do the following:
-60mg Test E EoD shallow IM with a half inch needle into quads. I figure if I don’t get a lump afterwards that it was successfully IM and not subq
-100iu HCG daily
-0.5mg anastrozole every day
Then retest in a few weeks.
If my e2 is not any lower, I guess I am immune to anastrozole and I need a different AI.
If my e2 is lower but still above range, I’ll add even more anastrozole
If my e2 is in range I’ll switch to subq and retest to see if it’s the subq causing my high e2
If the e2 is low I’ll lower the anastrozole
I have done exclusively subq injections on my last two tests, and those are the two where my e2 was the most unexpectedly high. On the other tests I altered between subq or IM depending on what I fancied doing on the day.
Looking at when I used to take Testogel, 1mg of anastrozole per week was enough to half my e2. So I’m really confused here.
Going forwards I’m going to do the following:
-60mg Test E EoD shallow IM with a half inch needle into quads. I figure if I don’t get a lump afterwards that it was successfully IM and not subq
-100iu HCG daily
-0.5mg anastrozole every day
Then retest in a few weeks.
If my e2 is not any lower, I guess I am immune to anastrozole and I need a different AI.
If my e2 is lower but still above range, I’ll add even more anastrozole
If my e2 is in range I’ll switch to subq and retest to see if it’s the subq causing my high e2
If the e2 is low I’ll lower the anastrozole
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HUGE McBIGLARGE
Member
I have some gel left and I’ll use it if I want to be able to rapidly clear or rapidly raise my testosterone levels.
Because it reaches peak serum levels within 48 hours and because it has a full clearance of 96 hours I can use it if I want to bring my T up very fast, or if I for whatever reason want to lower my T fast.
Last time I used it was when my doctor insisted on testing my testosterone along with other things. So I used a big dose of Testogel for a few weeks, then didn’t take it 48 hours before the blood test so my total T was normal, then I took a massive dose right after and went back to injections.
Other than that I don’t use it anymore. If it wasn’t for the difficulty acquiring it and the worry that I’ll expose my girlfriend to it, I’d have liked to stay on it. It took seconds to apply, and it sent my DHT through the roof, which was nice. Also meant I grew more body hair where I applied it.
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