How long can I take clen for?

[Liter O' Test]

Title.

I want to know if I can take a moderate/low dose for months?
what the risks are?
how common this is?
I think guys run clen their whole prep, months are not uncommon?
I understand it will lose its effectveness, but it surely cant be that rapidly?

This is not a thread for things about diet or 2 week on bro science
or random anecdotes of a friend of a friend you saw on reddit 5 years ago, or about the heart regarding dumbasses who ran 100mcg+ on adderal/tren/cardio/no bp meds
I've been BnC for a very long time but never felt the need to add a weight loss drug in a cut
I dont know anything about clen despite taking gear for a decade, so if anyone can fill me in on some anecdotes
or general practices etc.
Also I think I need clen this time around because I was on beta blockers (metopolol) for the past 3 years and i think that caught up with me
( good news is that my heart rate has been permanently reduced since ive been off them, since Feb)

I just want to run some clen to get the gears turning so to speak, Ive had my carbs and calories reduced greatly for about 6 weeks,
I've made a lot of progress, but I'm not making the progress I'm used to , my metabolism just isnt going as fast as it was even just last summer

Ive read a lot about clen, but i only stumble on advanced discussion of how it burns fat etc, and im missing the whole foundational aspect of it,
of how to run it and generally how guys use it

I'm thinking 8 weeks tapering up from 20mcg up to like 60mcg-80mcg. Im not trying to like actually get any sides, just get the ball rolling and get my metabolism back..

thanks for reading

yes I have DNP , no I havent tried it, yes i know its more effective.
I just dont want to run it for 7-10 days and then spend another week bloated. like ive just been cutting too long to go back to holding water in my face.
like ive said before, Im not fat fat and i am getting weightloss already, and i usually have a good metabolism. so i feel like i just need a little assistance to get things firing, i have a feeling ill be a hyperresponder to clen or any metabolism/fat loss drug for that matter
@Ghoul

 

[PuxONE]

I take clen, 80mcg daily in two doses. With more doses the tremors increase and the muscle contractions are quite painful. I have been in therapy for 1 month and plan to stop early.

 

[DECLAN]

I've used clen for as long as 8 months. Off now.

I'll make the key points succinctly, if you need more details lmk.

"Tolerance" does develop quickly but it's not that simple. Metabolically 80mg of Clen, without prior use, will increase resting calorie burn by 29%, and fat lipolysis (breakdown to fatty acids) by 39%, along with increasing insulin sensitivity and other fat loss enhancing effects.

The tolerance that quickly develops primarily affects the tremors and boosted twitch speed of muscles. This accounts for only a portion of the extra resting calorie burn, and quickly diminishes as you take the same dose. Some users think that's an indication it's no longer working, which isn't accurate. I also thought increased doses to keep the tremors going and the break to reset receptors were necessary to restore the fat loss effects after you reached your max dose and the tremors stopped, but that wasn't actually necessary.

The increased fat metabolism is a direct action of Clen on fat cells, not relying on continued beta receptor sensitivity.

Air passages continue to be opened more than normal, resulting in higher resting calorie burn.

After all, when used as an asthma med it would be taken for years at the same dose. The tremors are considered a temporary side effect when treatment is initiated. No "break" or ever increasing dose is required to keep patients breathing more easily, or as we're trying to induce, additional fat oxidation.

The increased insulin sensitivity is so durable Clen has experimentally been used as a treatment for diabetes. Again, this doesn't fade with tolerance.

So do you lose some of the "free" calorie burn from a lack of tremors and muscles that have increased twitch response? Yes, how much? Not enough to warrant repeatedly going through the stress the tremor stage puts on your body in as you keep cycling over an extended period, in my opinion. The time to reset receptor sensitivity varies from person to person and protocols are all over the place, btw.

Most of the fat loss benefits will continue with sustained use, and the only way to go if you want to use this for a long period to counteract your slowed metabolism. Do something else to burn off what is perhaps 100-200 / day in extra calories from the tremor stage. The biggest benefits are the continuing enhanced lipolysis that will speed fat loss and boost energy, and better glucose control from increased insulin sensitivity. That is largely what "better metabolism" is anyway right?

So for dosing. 40ug twice a day is the asthma dose, proven to be safe for long term use. 80ug twice a day is the highest amount I've found referred to in a long term study (6 months), and those were people weakened by ALS, with no ill effects.

Because of the possible unintentional overdosing with UGL Clen I wouldn't go past 80ug a day, and would usually take that in one dose early in the morning, A split dose is better but no later than noon for the second to avoid insomnia. With pharma I'd be comfortable going up to 80ug twice a day max. Thats me, 40ug twice a day will still be effective. This is all after slow titration and dependent on how you respond. Don't go higher if you don't feel well. You've also got to monitor BP as it can drop too low if you're normal or below already. First time use 20ug for 4 days, then 40ug, 60ug, until you reach your max. Increasing every 4 days or when the tremors ease off.

Although plenty of people have gone to the hospital after taking too much, or ingesting it accidentally (an infant ate 20 tabs, and turned out ok thankfully) or it was used to cut street drugs, documented injury has only been recorded at really high doses, and thankfully very rare. No fatalities as far as I've been able to find. Definitely don't play with raws. It's essentially heart muscle damage from increased heart rate combined with insufficient oxygen supply from the low blood pressure. Again, the highest heart rate is in the tremor stage when the receptors are most sensitive, so even though the doses we're talking about shouldn't put you anywhere near the danger zone, it's another reason to not cycle back into the tremors.

Stay really well hydrated. A lot of the extra energy expenditure is going to be from expelling moisture via breathing. So not only is dehydration bad in general, it'll slow fat loss.

You'll likely experience cramping. I finally realized this wouldn't happen after a long break, I'd be ok for a few weeks, then it would be continuous cramps. A blood test showed depleted taurine. A known effect of clen.. You don't replace Taurine quickly. I think this is happening mostly in the tremor stage (another reason to avoid repeating it) because of taurine's use in nerves and suspect the constant super twitch response was using it up. This isn't something asthma patients typically experience, which reinforces my belief it happens during the repeated tremor stage when cycling. Whatever causes it, 1000mg / day Taurine from the first day of Clen was enough to keep them away most of the time. On the rare occasion I felt a cramp coming on I'd take another Taurine cap. Cramps were never a problem after that.

Finally don't take this with a high GLP dose. At 15mg/tirz I think the insulin sensitivity effect of both would combine to induce brief hypoglycemia, since I'd get blurry vision for a few moments. Once I stopped the Clen that effect didn't return.

How much weight did you lose during that duration? Out of curiosity, why did you decide to take it for that long? 8 months seems long, how much weight were you trying to take off? 100 lbs?

Btw, maybe use mcg instead of ug, the majority of labs/manufacturers use that unit.

 

[Ghoul]

I take clen, 80mcg daily in two doses. With more doses the tremors increase and the muscle contractions are quite painful. I have been in therapy for 1 month and plan to stop early.

I use ug instead of mcg because most clen disasters seem to result from people mistaking mcg for mg. I think it forces people to stop for a second and look it up, perhaps avoiding that error:



I first used clen as a fat burner, like everyone else, but I found I really liked the bronchodilator effects. Breathing more freely all the time was a continuous energy booster. A stimulant by other means.

I never suffered respiratory infections, the fat burning was a bonus, and after all, clen has a good safety profile for, basically, lifetime use provided the dose is correct. It was (and still is) a daily asthma treatment used for decades even by children.

It's just outdated. with better options that don't have the same risk of heart damage from overdoses or the fairly intense side effects when starting, which are ironically what the BB community values most from it.

So for me it was a mild performance enhancer, like daily caffeine. The wild swings from UGL dose variances put me off, and even after switching to India pharma solved that (Clenbut 40), it became apparent it wasn't compatible with GLPs. Somehow the combo would drive glucose too low and it doesn't take much of that to damage your eyes.

If Taurine hadn't stopped the cramps I would've quit. Getting them in odd places you can't pull them back out of is torture. I still use Taurine supplements to this day, and never get cramps any more for any reason, so there's a lasting benefit from the experience.

 

[Fattyone]

I LOVE clen. I’d run it everyday for the rest of my life if I knew I’d be fine. This thread makes me want to order a bunch of clen and nebivolol and never look back.

 

[Ghoul]

I LOVE clen. I’d run it everyday for the rest of my life if I knew I’d be fine. This thread makes me want to order a bunch of clen and nebivolol and never look back.

If you find anything indicating long term damage from a moderate dose let me know, I never have, and I looked hard. All the risk is from very high doses. Unfortunately, it's entirely possible in a bag of 100 UGL tabs, a few could be massively overdosed. A clump of 300ug of the API could be the size of a grain of sand. A couple of those a month over a year could lead to some cumulative heart muscle damage. And forget about playing with raws, that's insanity and put plenty in the hospital.

It's been in medical use since 1977, and to this day still gets pulled off the shelf, dust blown off, used in human medical experiments, and as far as I know, doses of up to 160ug are used in long term trials without concern for health hazards.

 

[Liter O' Test]

Update,
Im really digging clen, im only at 30mcg but i think it helps a lot with water retention, not sure how. definately gave me a boost to my metabolism that I needed after wrecking it from sugar and beta blockers. good workouts too.

Im not going above 40mcg without nebivol, due to my predisopositon for high heart rate

 

[iris]

Update,
Im really digging clen, im only at 30mcg but i think it helps a lot with water retention, not sure how. definately gave me a boost to my metabolism that I needed after wrecking it from sugar and beta blockers. good workouts too.

Im not going above 40mcg without nebivol, due to my predisopositon for high heart rate

So for you if it is below 40 you don't need/want to take neb?
How long are you taking this for?

 

[hottwaxx]

The albuterol half life is only like 4 hours.

 

[iris]

The albuterol half life is only like 4 hours.

Yeah, but that's why it's very different from cl and why some people prefer taking it

 

[hottwaxx]

100%. Some people have adverse reactions to clen...sleep etc.
I have heard that the stimulant effects wane, but still impact sleep to a significant degree for some. The fatloss down regulation is overblown

 

[sushak]

Once again ghoul has convinced me to try something I would have otherwise completely dismissed. From what limited info I had read (even on the meso profile articles) was that holes in heart and irreversible damage yada yada. Gonna give this a go this winter. Not much choice where it comes to pharma sources in eu though.

@Ghoul, for low dose multi month cycles, is ketotifen required?

 

[Ghoul]

Once again ghoul has convinced me to try something I would have otherwise completely dismissed. From what limited info I had read (even on the meso profile articles) was that holes in heart and irreversible damage yada yada. Gonna give this a go this winter. Not much choice where it comes to pharma sources in eu though.

@Ghoul, for low dose multi month cycles, is ketotifen required?

No, you want to minimize the period where tachycardia is a risk, not prolong it. The few extra calories burned isn't worth the stress. The direct action on fat doesn't require a receptor resensitization, and neither does the bronchodilation (mostly) or minor anabolic like effects.

Just titrate up 20ug at a time, to the level you intend to go to and stay there. ie, 20ug 4 days, 40ug 4 days....etc, or however long it takes for the trembling to subside at each dose.

 

[sushak]

No, you want to minimize the period where tachycardia is a risk, not prolong it. The few extra calories burned isn't worth the stress. The direct action on fat doesn't require a receptor resensitization, and neither does the bronchodilation (mostly) or minor anabolic like effects.

Just titrate up 20ug at a time, to the level you intend to go to and stay there. ie, 20ug 4 days, 40ug 4 days....etc, or however long it takes for the trembling to subside at each dose.

Thanks.

Could it therefore be an idea to downregulate the receptors using Albuterol for 2 weeks, then switching to clen? Would that reduce tachycardia risk? Or are the receptors being targeted not quite the same?

 

[Ghoul]

Thanks.

Could it therefore be an idea to downregulate the receptors using Albuterol for 2 weeks, then switching to clen? Would that reduce tachycardia risk? Or are the receptors being targeted not quite the same?

The risk is small, unless you have some underlying cardiac issue. I don't think it requires any special effort to down regulate, just titrate up like most people do when doing a "clen cycle" anyway. The difference being, when you reach your max dose, instead of taking a break or using antihistamines to "reset" you just keep going, and enjoy 75% of the benefits with almost none of the risks. Your heart isn't going nuts, so the hazard of an overworking heart suffering from oxygen depravation damaging muscle cells drops precipitously. Probably back to near zero, or whatever it would normally be without clen.

There's no mysterious effect clen has that damages the heart. Your heart rate speeds up, blood pressure goes down, and if it beats too fast, for too long, the oxygen supplied by blood flow is insufficient to meet its heightened needs and some heart muscle cells die from oxygen depravation. However, this only happens at epic doses, and while the receptors are sensitive. Assuming you don't have some underlying heart issues.

This is in addition to "normal" tachycardia risks like a chunk of plaque breaking off somewhere and causing a heart attack. But that can happen from any activity that raises heart rate. It's just the longer it continues, and with clen it goes on continuously at the beginning, the greater the risk. So once you get passed that stage the better off you'll be, and you certainly don't want to *make* it happen again, just to burn a few more calories.

 

[Liter O' Test]

So for you if it is below 40 you don't need/want to take neb?
How long are you taking this for?

im planning on taking clen for awhile, ive got 1 box pharma 1 box ugl, its just something to take that improves insulin sensitivity and gives a slight stimulant effect, If I go above 40mcg ill end up in the 80s-90s heart rate so when I increase to 60 or so I'll add nebivol. or maybe Ill just adjust to 40mcg better combined with getting leaner/more cardiovascularly in shape my heart rate will adjust, who knows.
i definately have a noticed a big change in my look these past 2 weeks even at a low dosage, compared to the past few months of dieting, my metabolism was just wrecked and didnt matter if I did PSMF, nothing was being mobilized without cardio.

 

[zangetsu13]

I could be wrong as it's been a while since I looked into it, so feel free to correct me.
Wasn't it the case that most of the reports of cardiac remodeling, were from those in the bodybuilding community who were running high dose clen and T3 together over longer periods of time during cuts.
Personally I can handle upto 120ug a day ideally split up into 3 doses. Tremors tend to subside relatively quickly. At that dose when I cramp it's normally (for me) dehydration as clen tends to dehydrate me at 120ug and blunt my thirst( again personal anecdote). I do however sweat like an alter boy in a rectory anyway.
While I hate the cramps, I love the added pump I get from it.
Interesting read ghoul thanks for taking the time to post. There's so many conflicting reports on clean use, like 5 on 5 off, 2 weeks on 2 off, EOD, take ketotifen to re-sensitise receptors etc.
Obviously personal responsibility plays a roll in using a ß2 agonist especially in combination with other drugs.

 

[Ghoul]

I could be wrong as it's been a while since I looked into it, so feel free to correct me.
Wasn't it the case that most of the reports of cardiac remodeling, were from those in the bodybuilding community who were running high dose clen and T3 together over longer periods of time during cuts.
Personally I can handle upto 120ug a day ideally split up into 3 doses. Tremors tend to subside relatively quickly. At that dose when I cramp it's normally (for me) dehydration as clen tends to dehydrate me at 120ug and blunt my thirst( again personal anecdote). I do however sweat like an alter boy in a rectory anyway.
While I hate the cramps, I love the added pump I get from it.
Interesting read ghoul thanks for taking the time to post. There's so many conflicting reports on clean use, like 5 on 5 off, 2 weeks on 2 off, EOD, take ketotifen to re-sensitise receptors etc.
Obviously personal responsibility plays a roll in using a ß2 agonist especially in combination with other drugs.

Very high doses are what cause heart damage from clen, and that seems to be very rare. But ofc with UGL clen you can never be certain what an individual tab contains, and messing with raws is madness. Genuine pharma or no clen at all imo.

 

[zangetsu13]

Very high doses are what cause heart damage from clen, and that seems to be very rare. But ofc with UGL clen you can never be certain what an individual tab contains, and messing with raws is madness. Genuine pharma or no clen at all imo.

I've used multiple ugl's clen. First time was actually when I first got into ped's Chinese clen 20ug tabs, did the job but honestly wouldn't trust some random bottle of pills in Chinese now being older and less dumb.
Used Balkan clen a mate gave me few years later, seemed to be overdosed by my reaction to it. Was good but couldn't go to 120ug, even 80ug felt high.
Used driada's last year, they have Jano tests, so was comfortable using it. Felt bang on tbh.
RAWS and oral droppers I wouldn't touch, with ug measurements the margin of error is just to great.
Real Pharma will obviously be the best option as it is guaranteed to be correctly dosed and won't have massive variance from pill to pill in the same bottle.

 

[Ghoul]

I've used multiple ugl's clen. First time was actually when I first got into ped's Chinese clen 20ug tabs, did the job but honestly wouldn't trust some random bottle of pills in Chinese now being older and less dumb.
Used Balkan clen a mate gave me few years later, seemed to be overdosed by my reaction to it. Was good but couldn't go to 120ug, even 80ug felt high.
Used driada's last year, they have Jano tests, so was comfortable using it. Felt bang on tbh.
RAWS and oral droppers I wouldn't touch, with ug measurements the margin of error is just to great.
Real Pharma will obviously be the best option as it is guaranteed to be correctly dosed and won't have massive variance from pill to pill in the same bottle.

India pharma clen, ie clenbut 40, is cheaper than UGL so should be a no brainer.

 

[buzzingonaas]

I use ug instead of mcg because most clen disasters seem to result from people mistaking mcg for mg.

hey man, if someone dumps out 1,000 40ug clen tablets and decides to pop all of them, maybe, ya know.. darwinism and all that