How long do you think you can safely keep going, and what kind of expectations can you have as you get older?

[phenominal34]

I can’t get above lean 180 lbs at 6’2” no matter what I take, it seems. Been blasting 500g-1000g for like half a year now just trying to grow but muscles never get bigger, lifts never increase.

Food !!!

 

[4Drago]

Well to keep on topic im about to be 62 in less then a month.
Started using gear in my early 30s so been steadily using for 30 years.
Early years I went somewhat heavy (not compared to guys these days) but heavier then the average user since i competed for many years.
Past few years i had to take time off due to surgeries and not being able to train.
During that off time all blood markers went back to being well within range and no real long term health issues besides joint problems. Thats after well over 25 years of using. I can honestly say prior to the break for surgeries i hadnt come off completely in the last 15 years. Coming off was doing 300mg of test weekly for 4-6 weeks and then back on mainly 500mg test, 400-500mg tren and 50mg dbol was my go to cycles. Obviously when i was prepping for a show i changed things up but all in all ive been on gear pretty much non stop since i started.

Im guessing if i was gonna have long term effects theyd be showing up by now. Probably just jinxed myself. Lol

Now and days im just on 300-400mg test cyp and 2 ius gh ed.

Hoping to compete again if i ever recover completely from my back issues and i will pick things up again at that point if it happens.
But i honestly cant say ive had any long term problems associated with gear useage that i know of.
Probably never stop using if i dont have to.

Some will say im nuts but its my life and its what i choose to do so doesn't really matter to me what anyone thinks. I dont mean that to be nasty im just saying its your life live it how you want to not how someone else thinks you should.

Way worse things we can be addicted to i guess. I love to train even at my age and i love gear.
Old school die hard. ‍

Best post I've read in a long time. Thanks for the history and insight. I'm over 50, had to take the last couple years off due to chronic pain issues. I don't see myself ever quiting completely either. I took a nice long 15 yr break which Gave me a nice idea of max genetic potential. I love this lifestyle. Now to keep making choices that allow me to stay on track.

 

[silntrunin]

Best post I've read in a long time. Thanks for the history and insight. I'm over 50, had to take the last couple years off due to chronic pain issues. I don't see myself ever quiting completely either. I took a nice long 15 yr break which Gave me a nice idea of max genetic potential. I love this lifestyle. Now to keep making choices that allow me to stay on track.

Yes sir! Same here, ive had to change my training quite a bit. No squats, heavy deadlifts or overhead presses but im good with that. As long as i can continue to train is all that matters. I think learning how to make those adjustments just makes up better in the long run and allows us to continue to do what we love doing.
Keep banging brother!

 

[Astartes]

Yes sir! Same here, ive had to change my training quite a bit. No squats, heavy deadlifts or overhead presses but im good with that. As long as i can continue to train is all that matters. I think learning how to make those adjustments just makes up better in the long run and allows us to continue to do what we love doing.
Keep banging brother!

If that is you in your profile pic you are an inspiration brother. #notoxicmasculinity #realmenreallions

 

[DECLAN]

Well to keep on topic im about to be 62 in less then a month.
Started using gear in my early 30s so been steadily using for 30 years.
Early years I went somewhat heavy (not compared to guys these days) but heavier then the average user since i competed for many years.
Past few years i had to take time off due to surgeries and not being able to train.
During that off time all blood markers went back to being well within range and no real long term health issues besides joint problems. Thats after well over 25 years of using. I can honestly say prior to the break for surgeries i hadnt come off completely in the last 15 years. Coming off was doing 300mg of test weekly for 4-6 weeks and then back on mainly 500mg test, 400-500mg tren and 50mg dbol was my go to cycles. Obviously when i was prepping for a show i changed things up but all in all ive been on gear pretty much non stop since i started.

Im guessing if i was gonna have long term effects theyd be showing up by now. Probably just jinxed myself. Lol

Now and days im just on 300-400mg test cyp and 2 ius gh ed.

Hoping to compete again if i ever recover completely from my back issues and i will pick things up again at that point if it happens.
But i honestly cant say ive had any long term problems associated with gear useage that i know of.
Probably never stop using if i dont have to.

Some will say im nuts but its my life and its what i choose to do so doesn't really matter to me what anyone thinks. I dont mean that to be nasty im just saying its your life live it how you want to not how someone else thinks you should.

Way worse things we can be addicted to i guess. I love to train even at my age and i love gear.
Old school die hard. ‍

My dad is your age, he just retired and got bored, so he went back training in Karate, lmao it was an awakening. He felt all his joint pain and old injuries from decades of mining .

Anyway, I had him go do bloods on his hormones and now is talking to an endocrinologist to get some test prescribed.

 

[gauge22]

Get your shit checked. I had a full cardiac stress test (with the dyes), ECG, and scan. Heart is perfectly fine.

I think TRT @ 150ish a week is doable for the long term with a few caveats.

Diet should be 80% good un-processed foods. Do LISS regularly. Keep BF reasonable, < 15% at all times. Do not drink. Do not smoke and do rec drugs.

If you balance all of that out with what "normal" people do with their health you will easily outlive them and have better QOL.

 

[silntrunin]

If that is you in your profile pic you are an inspiration brother. #notoxicmasculinity #realmenreallions

Thanks! The pic is a few years old. Ill have to update it.
I'm pretty much in the same condition just about 10lbs less mass.
Not training as heavy as i used to plus gear has tapered down to 300mg of test only now and days.
(Updated profile pic)

 

[The_Dane]

B&C, 10~ years is all I'd put my organs through. I think 1 or 2 cycles in a mans life won't do him too much harm. Tossing in something on top of TRT isn't going to hurt you either.

I think a lot boils down to genetics. Do you happen to have a shitty gene activated by anabolic steroids that leads to early health problems. This also plays a major factor in your positive response to steroids. Optimizing multiple anabolic pathways may also seems to be the best case for longevity. I think Dorian Yates is the shining example of this.

He came out recently saying he was only taking 300mg test prop, primo(DHT), tren hex/parabolan(19 nor), and then a lil dbol and anavar of course. Assuming the lore of 3 primo ampules is true, and lets role with that on 3 parabolan ampules as well; dude was only taking roughly 825mg of injectable anabolics a week. However, he hit the major pathways optimally with fast acting, non-aromatizing compounds.

The dbol were only 5mg and anavar were 2.5mg back then, so by the sound of it he was on less than many guys here are on now. He was a genetic freak obviously so we cannot compare our outcocmes to his, but there is something to be said here. That being: you are either getting big or you are not. If you are not, it's probably not best to fight against nature, take more steroids to beat your own metabolism, and hope for a positive outcome.

 

[Jackedjack]

Im ON gear for last 16years (holy shit how fast years passed), im only 33yo, blasted shit higher than needed, like 300mg tren ace daily etc.. My personal view is - make all health checks like religion, and you will know when its time to back off.

For last 6 years (from point my first kid was born), im a lot more cautious. Check your heart once per year, do blood labs multiple times per year.

 

[silntrunin]

B&C, 10~ years is all I'd put my organs through. I think 1 or 2 cycles in a mans life won't do him too much harm. Tossing in something on top of TRT isn't going to hurt you either.

I think a lot boils down to genetics. Do you happen to have a shitty gene activated by anabolic steroids that leads to early health problems. This also plays a major factor in your positive response to steroids. Optimizing multiple anabolic pathways may also seems to be the best case for longevity. I think Dorian Yates is the shining example of this.

He came out recently saying he was only taking 300mg test prop, primo(DHT), tren hex/parabolan(19 nor), and then a lil dbol and anavar of course. Assuming the lore of 3 primo ampules is true, and lets role with that on 3 parabolan ampules as well; dude was only taking roughly 825mg of injectable anabolics a week. However, he hit the major pathways optimally with fast acting, non-aromatizing compounds.

The dbol were only 5mg and anavar were 2.5mg back then, so by the sound of it he was on less than many guys here are on now. He was a genetic freak obviously so we cannot compare our outcocmes to his, but there is something to be said here. That being: you are either getting big or you are not. If you are not, it's probably not best to fight against nature, take more steroids to beat your own metabolism, and hope for a positive outcome.

Totally agree with the genetic disposition. Some people can drink and smoke most their lives and live to be 90 while others will die from cancer or liver problems in their 50s or 60s if not sooner.
So get your shit checked on a regular basis and make good choices based on what's going on inside you.

 

[malfeasance]

I think we all know that steroids cause long-term health problems, and we likewise know that most of them really start hitting home after 30+ years, particularly heart issues.

I started very late--in my 30s--and I started with TRT. I switched to UGL because my doctor changed the way he was working, and required a weekly office visit instead of writing a prescription and doing a monthly blood test; the cost went from being $100/mo to over $500 out of pocket. I'm now in my very late 40s, getting close to my 50s, so I've been on TRT for well over a decade, and my HPTA is in total shutdown, and likely can never recover (I'm okay with this). I had to take an enforced break due to a nagging back injury and covid, and now I'm back. I'm on a higher dose of test, but still just test, at least until I get some of my fitness back.

So, if I'm not planning on doing masters BB competitions or Olympic/power lifting, and I'm mostly concerned with looking good, being strong, having great cardio, and not feeling like shit, how long would y'all estimate that I can go on and off full cycles before I need my first heart bypass, or just croak from a massive heart attack? With the exception of RBC when I was on a lot of EQ, my blood values overall have traditionally looked good.

Is it realistic to think that, if I can keep it up for a decade (into my late 50s), that I'm going to have the physique of someone that's in their mid-30s? Or is there something else about aging, aside from changing hormone levels, that's going to prevent me from adding strength, fitness, and muscle at a decent rate? I know that a lot of the weight gain that older people tend to experience has a lot more to do with changes in activity levels than anything else.

IIRC, my dose when I started was 200mg EW, and that hit about 800ng/dl. I'm not sure how long it's "safe" to keep my blood levels that high or higher. Or if I even have to worry that much, since I'll be getting pretty old once I hit the negative long term side effects or having high testosterone levels.

I know that I had very high RBC and blood pressure on boldenone, high enough that I was getting really brutal headaches. As I age more, I expect things like that to become more dangerous.

My biggest worry is something like HCM or arteriosclerosis. IIRC high natural testosterone levels have been strongly linked to arterial plaques, but that might be outdated knowledge; if that's correct, I assume that supraphysiologic levels will, over time, be more likely to cause coronary arterial disease. But the question of how long, on average, is the tough one.

Oh, I'm 100% psychologically dependent, no question. That's my least concern. I'm pretty sure I've got a hormonal imbalance at this moment--I need to get more adex--but the critical markers for kidney and liver function are good. Liver function I'm minimally concerned about, because most injectables aren't overly harmful to your liver.

I think my biggest worries are coronary arterial disease and heart disease (specifically hypertrophic cardiomyopathy). I know that testosterone levels decrease in men as they get older, and that men that have the highest levels of testosterone tend to have higher rates of CAD and HCM past the age of 50 or so. Years ago I saw something about a link between high levels of testosterone and LDL that suggested that high testosterone can lead to plaque formations. But the question I have is more complicated: how high, how long, and is that risk linear irrespective of age?

E.g., if you have very low testosterone until you're 40, and then you go on TRT and have levels that would be considered on the high end for an 18yo, is that when the clock starts? Will your risk of CAD and heart diseases start going up when you hit 80 instead of 50, because you had low testosterone for a long time?

As I'm writing this, I realize that there's probably not a good answer. There's probably no studies covering this directly, esp. since it would probably be unethical to do something you thought was likely to lead to heart disease in trial participants.

All of your concerns are valid.

You are in your 30s, so just be aware that things change as you age. It will be different in your 40s, and it will be drastically different in your 50s.

bodyweight matters a lot for the concerns you listed, too.

Are you checking your blood pressure?

200 a week? Come on, that is not even close to physiological range - it is a minicycle. It may not be 1500mg a week, or have the same health effects, but staying on 200mg constantly, year round, will catch up with you sooner or later. Why cruise so high? What is your reasoning?

My advice is to watch all of your health markers. Run blood tests. Measure your blood pressure frequently. Get your diet sorted, and do cardio. These will address your major concerns.

Take real breaks. When you do your cycle and gain your weight, take a break for 30 days. No pin. Then resume at 100-125 a week, not 200, until your next blast.

Also - do real cuts. Get lean. If you are competing, this is obviously necessary, but if you are not, then cut down to below 10% once a year or so. Constant permabulk swollen steroid guy in the gym has its own consequences for health.

Calorie restriction has health benefits.

Know that as you age, you are going to have to back off of doses and bodyweight, or you will pay with your health.

You simply cannot do with steroids at 55-60 what you did at 25-30 or even 35-40.

So how is your blood pressure?

 

[Juicedhead]

you can go as long as you dont get too heavy. gear doesnt kill guys, walking around over 250 out of breath watching tv just sitting threre doing that for years combined with gh, slin, igf 1 use is what kills bodybuilders. also blood pressure super importqnt having high blood pressure will fry your kidneys

 

[malfeasance]

you can go as long as you dont get too heavy. gear doesnt kill guys, walking around over 250 out of breath watching tv just sitting threre doing that for years combined with gh, slin, igf 1 use is what kills bodybuilders. also blood pressure super importqnt having high blood pressure will fry your kidneys

I was over 250 and blood pressure was just getting out of control . . .

 

[Juicedhead]

I was over 250 and blood pressure was just getting out of control . . .

mine was pretty high even with a pretty tight diet.. you should defiently get on a medication if you are finding it to be chroncially high if youre a bigger dude. I take amlodipine or some shit and my bp is 120/80 at my bw now when im bigger sometimes its gets up to 140/90 but thats when im heavy pushing food and gear. diet obvioulsy plays a huge role in blood pressure but guys act like it dont matter but i promise you you walk around with high bp for a decade or more that will shorten your life and grreatly increase your risk of heart attack. BP, kidney funtction, heart size, liver function these are what bodybudilders need to watch and monitor. we all want to be monsters but if we dont monitor these things our lives will be shortened

 

[midlifegains]

Awesome thread. Thanks all