holy shit. Thanks for letting me know bro
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
How many of you who blasted EQ now have low ferritin?
- Thread starter RockyP
- Start date
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
that sounds weird.
especially considering they do iron infusions that can be beneficial for months
Tbaz192
Member
Yeah I was like hmmm okay sure…
He said things along the lines of in your stomach with iron supplements every day can actually lower absorption or something.
He kept going back n forth and was like hmmm…. Your ferritin isn’t an issue. I don’t have answers for you.
Hmmm… it’s low but not low enough for concern. All other iron labs are fine. Hmmm.. yeah no answers for your symptoms or anything. Go see a GI doctor. But either way you won’t benefit from infusions. And insurance wouldnt accept it due to your normal iron labs and only low ferritin.
So here I am on Meso about to do piggy infusions because nothing else works. Just gotta watch my CBC.
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
the fact he said "iron labs" is stupid.
soluble transferrin is where its at.
are you talking about oral iron supplementation or IM btw
Eddie.
Member
Trying to get a read on that, you guys mean someone could end up with low ferritin due to raised RBC production and elevated HCT, correct?
@Photon you ended up anemic but how much your RBC and HCT increased?
And what's the reasoning of both RBC/HCT and iron/ferritin reduction that @ackmack78 has?
I've not seen any increase with 250 EQ on HCT/RBC and my ferritin and iron are on middle low levels. Unfortunately i will never be able to run 800mg+ EQ without running 2gr test to maintain a normal e2
@Photon you ended up anemic but how much your RBC and HCT increased?
And what's the reasoning of both RBC/HCT and iron/ferritin reduction that @ackmack78 has?
I've not seen any increase with 250 EQ on HCT/RBC and my ferritin and iron are on middle low levels. Unfortunately i will never be able to run 800mg+ EQ without running 2gr test to maintain a normal e2
xrayphoton13
Member
Yeah no dutasteride or finasteride
Photon
Member
Both dropped more than 10% (relative to baseline)
Eddie.
Member
Damn this is crazy, how is it possible a compound that increases RBC and HCT a lot for the most individuals cause exactly the opposite to others? Is this because of the altering on EPO stimulation?
Have you noticed the same effect when using other compounds at the same dosage as well or is it only with EQ?
At 1gr total i have a 44% HCT and i definitely don't want to send it lower, I'm looking for the opposite outcome basically..to raise it to 48-49% to get some benefits of the increased stamina but i doubt this will ever happen.
Photon
Member
I'm not sure either, but i'm gonna see if it happens again on my next blast.
It might be the combination of Reta + EQ but idk.
Tbaz192
Member
Was my main issue I believe yes. For a very long amount of time elevated CBC panel caused my ferritin to crash.
But also due to the fact I can’t absorb oral iron well it seems
Tbaz192
Member
I was talking about oral Iron supplements. I have yet to do anything iron injection
My Ferritin is super low just running test at 160mg per week. On 5mg of Reta. Had run some Var around the time of my most recent Iron panel.
Total Iron 53 mcg/dL. Range 50-180
Iron Binding Capacity 457 (high). Range 250-425
% saturation 12 (low). Range 20-48%
Ferritin 4 (low). Range 38-380
Quest panel.
started Iron Bisglycinate 25mg
Elemental Iron (liquid) 125mg
I shouldn’t be as fatigued as I am. Side effect of low Iron?
Total Iron 53 mcg/dL. Range 50-180
Iron Binding Capacity 457 (high). Range 250-425
% saturation 12 (low). Range 20-48%
Ferritin 4 (low). Range 38-380
Quest panel.
started Iron Bisglycinate 25mg
Elemental Iron (liquid) 125mg
I shouldn’t be as fatigued as I am. Side effect of low Iron?
Tbaz192
Member
Low iron yes. Especially on cycle. Every cycle that has crashed my ferritin even more.
I’d get hit with awful exhaustion, weakness, just overall tired 24/7 feeling,
Also felt super flat and wasn’t putting on size. I was so depleted
Tbaz192
Member
To further touch on this^
With my low ferritin. I gassed out so fast and had terrible recovery. Id remain sore for a week after hitting certain muscle groups.
there’s a lot that happens with iron problems. That’s why some of us are here trying to figure it out so bad. Can really mess up ya life
With my low ferritin. I gassed out so fast and had terrible recovery. Id remain sore for a week after hitting certain muscle groups.
there’s a lot that happens with iron problems. That’s why some of us are here trying to figure it out so bad. Can really mess up ya life
I've been able to keep my iron in decent range by supplementing iron everyday, but ferritin barely stays in range. I've done high dose EQ in the past, was not on EQ for over 2 months on this blood work. Looking at the trends in iron levels (didn't always pull ferritin), I've had a much easier time keeping iron up when not taking reta. My ferritin has been below the normal range at times before I ever took reta at all though.
RockyP
Member
Spoke with a friend of a friend who is studying to be an oncologist (which requires knowledge of non-cancer hematology) - he not surprisingly had no idea what I was talking about, but said that in theory it made sense that heavy PED usage could cause (in some individuals) these issues with low ferritin due to interactions with hepcidin and potential suppression of endogenous EPO production. He was pessimistic that we would find much information in the literature and / or from other hematologists, as it would require the doctor to have a lot of experience treating PED users with these issues, which we know is not very likely (unless anyone here has access to the old soviet docs supervising their athletes' PED usage) I still think this is something worth gathering more information on, as it is clearly impacting many members of the community in a negative way, and treatment options appear limited and inconsistently effective.
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Tbaz192
Member
Pretty much seen over 10-12 doctors this year including their NPs and tbh not a single one really understood even basic TRT. They had the old school mentality of once every two weeks. & then my Endo tried telling me to take 1mg of Adex every week for slightly high e2 (I was running it high in purpose for a script)
But a single .25mg dose put me single digits E2 on TRT.
So there’s definitely a lack of knowledge unless said Doctor personally pursues PED related knowledge. Which most don’t.
It was always so fun slightly arguing with them when I told them I don’t follow the bs normal TRT procedure.
And then my iron issues is whole can of bs that they won’t even deal with.
But as we post these, there are records and new things we learn. It’s why I love Meso
Gonz0
Member
My iron was 55 (ref range 50-195) on my last set of labs. After reading this thread and going back over all my labs I’ve realized I have not been getting my ferritin checked so I’m definitely going to add it in on my next set of labs because I’m barely above the reference range for iron. Seems awful to be going through this , really hope everyone dealing with this gets some relief soon.
RockyP
Member
Absolutely the general medical community (including endocrinology) is totally clueless about HRT and PEDs, and unfortunately this issue of low ferritin among those of us whose PEDs is even more nuanced and not well understood. Certainly in theory it makes sense in terms of negative feedback, we take drugs most of which are intended for treatment of anemia, they crank up rbc production and iron metabolism, but over time does the body then down regulate these pathways as it does with the endocrine system? Nobody seems to know. And I’m sure it’s not with everyone, but I’m just seeing it more and more on the boards and there’s definitely something here.
As an aside, and I don’t really believe this to be the smoking gun at all since guys are supplementing with iron and still having issues, how many of you guys are eating red meat regularly? I eat it a few times per week only, lean angus steak. For no other reason than it’s just expensive and i am not talented at cooking it well.
cousinmuscles
Member
Sorry I don't use EQ (will in the future) so I can't give input on the specific question, but generally as my cycle progresses my ferritin goes low, RBC count up but size of the blood cells down. This repeats itself over and over after maany cycles. I am using up the iron I have until I have too many red blood cells to which there is not enough iron to make them grow in size, and end up with a lower hematocrit at the end of the cycle vs start. Then during the health phase iron stores build up again as does the size of the blood cells so hematocrit goes up while RBC slowly goes down, it takes time for red blood cells to die. Seems with many replies in this thread that this is common with EQ too, probably due to the same mechanism.
A friend of mine with different heritage and genetic traits, specifically the type who has excess iron and excess blood regardless of AAS, has not the same pattern on/off cycle as me.
A friend of mine with different heritage and genetic traits, specifically the type who has excess iron and excess blood regardless of AAS, has not the same pattern on/off cycle as me.
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