How much to inject at the start?

[LeeroyMatinta]

I need to make something crystal clear. Even the FDA and the ultimate pharmaceutical standard setting body, USP have a very difficult time quantifying the risk of immunogenicity. But they take it very seriously. There have been a couple of disasters with protein based drugs, and lower level problems (still serious) have cropped up killing some potential new drug approvals. The risk being immunity to the drug, for some indeterminate amount of time, potentially permanent (think "vaccine"), or maybe short term. The other risk is cross immunity to the natural hormone being mimicked, which has potentially dire consequences.

But the risk is certainly there, and standards are in place for pharma companies to minimize all sources of it (like contaminants and aggregate formation), then measure how immunogenic it is in patients using the precise formulation, including dosing and final drug container that patients will use(since that could be a source of contamination).

If they detect XX amount of anti-drug antibodies in the test subjects, and they're not picking up any other problems, and the anti-drug antibodies aren't increasing with every dose, it's considered acceptable.

If they change anything at all this test must be done again. Because you don't want a situation where every injection is causing an increase in total antibodies that could end up being too much, and for instance, causing the drug to no longer work.

This is why dosing frequency isn't to be taken lightly. A peptide that's ok at once a week, because the antibodies that are created are cleared out before the next dose, may not be safe at 3x a week,

So with those of us using UGL, we have a lot of unknowns we're being exposed to, and short of getting antibody tests on a regular basis, have no way to know what's going on with our "formulation" of a random batch, from a random lab, reconstituted with random BAC whose ingredients we can't really be certain of.

The most we can do is limit the potential risks by carefully choosing what's in our control. BAC is in our control, low effort high reward in terms of reducing risk, because it comprises a large proportion of what makes up the drug we inject.

Everyone goes on about "pharma HGH" being desirable. Pharma BAC brings you much closer to that level of product.

I still have 30ml of deusmedical bac water unused, should I use it?

Also which vial size do you prefer from qsc? 10iu, 36iu etc.?
And shipping from china to europe takes like 4 weeks, do you guess my hgh will come in good condition? Because I guess it wouldn’t last long without being refrigerated even in powder form.

 

[Ghoul]

I still have 30ml of deusmedical bac water unused, should I use it?

Also which vial size do you prefer from qsc? 10iu, 36iu etc.?
And shipping from china to europe takes like 4 weeks, do you guess my hgh will come in good condition? Because I guess it wouldn’t last long without being refrigerated even in powder form.

Risk for the kind of things we're talking about are not one injection incidents leading to some bad outcome (usually). So I'm not trying to make you needlessly worried.

Amount of exposure to these things is what matters.

One shot a year with immunogenicity inducing compound=low risk.

Daily shot for a year with same compound=much higher risk.

I wouldn't be too concerned with one vial of UGL BAC while waiting for pharma grade to arrive. This place offers cheaper EU shipping if you just want a few vials.

30ml Hospira Bacteriostatic Water. Bac Water. UK

30ml Hospira Bacteriostatic Water. Bac Water. UK Hospira Bacteriostatic water is sterile non-pyrogenic water that contains 0.9% benzyl alcohol (9mg/mL), which is added as a bacteriostatic preservative. This preparation of sterile water and benzyl alcohol (BnOH) allows repeated withdrawals to be...

www.bacteriostatic-water-uk.com

Medex is still a bargain by comparison.

Tests of HGH Group buys after arrival show low loss of purity after arrival to customers and resent to Jano for testing.

That tells me they've figured out how to formulate it to be room temperature stable for a while

As an example, pharma tesamorelin (egrifta) had to be shipped to pharmacies refridgerated. A newer forumlaton, F4 of the same peptide no longer needed that, and only needed to be refrigerated upon arrival to the pharmacy.

I would choose the vial size based on what I expect to use in a week or less. Maybe 10 days if it was much cheaper per iu that way. The less time it sits there reconstituted the better.

 

[LeeroyMatinta]

Risk for the kind of things we're talking about are not one injection incidents leading to some bad outcome (usually). So I'm not trying to make you needlessly worried.

Amount of exposure to these things is what matters.

One shot a year with immunogenicity inducing compound=low risk.

Daily shot for a year with same compound=much higher risk.

I wouldn't be too concerned with one vial of UGL BAC while waiting for pharma grade to arrive. This place offers cheaper EU shipping if you just want a few vials.

30ml Hospira Bacteriostatic Water. Bac Water. UK

30ml Hospira Bacteriostatic Water. Bac Water. UK Hospira Bacteriostatic water is sterile non-pyrogenic water that contains 0.9% benzyl alcohol (9mg/mL), which is added as a bacteriostatic preservative. This preparation of sterile water and benzyl alcohol (BnOH) allows repeated withdrawals to be...

www.bacteriostatic-water-uk.com

Medex is still a bargain by comparison.

Tests of HGH Group buys after arrival show low loss of purity after arrival to customers and resent to Jano for testing.

That tells me they've figured out how to formulate it to be room temperature stable for a while

As an example, pharma tesamorelin (egrifta) had to be shipped to pharmacies refridgerated. A newer forumlaton, F4 of the same peptide no longer needed that, and only needed to be refrigerated upon arrival to the pharmacy.

I would choose the vial size based on what I expect to use in a week or less. Maybe 10 days if it was much cheaper per iu that way. The less time it sits there reconstituted the better.

Yes medex is still much cheaper. I think it lasts 29 days if opened, and up to like 2 years unopened right? Also it has to be stored always at room temp (20-25 degree celsius)?
Medex would cost me 86$ plus like 250$ shipping. But still the cheapest source even cheaper than ugl sources. So I think ordering from medex is still the best option.

In my case I think 10iu vials suit me well if I use 5iu ed. 24iu could work too but its not that much price difference.

 

[Ghoul]

Yes medex is still much cheaper. I think it lasts 29 days if opened, and up to like 2 years unopened right? Also it has to be stored always at room temp (20-25 degree celsius)?
Medex would cost me 86$ plus like 250$ shipping. But still the cheapest source even cheaper than ugl sources. So I think ordering from medex is still the best option.

In my case I think 10iu vials suit me well if I use 5iu ed. 24iu could work too but its not that much price difference.

Not sure if you mean the BAC, but that's going to last essentially forever. (not really forever, but the expiration date doesn't mean much. Once used you are supposed to refrigerate BAC, but to be honest I don't. I'm extremely careful to avoid contaminating them.

As far as HGH lifespan, nobody knows as I said. It'll vary from batch to batch. Pharma is 28 days after reconstitution, which is certainly "worst case scenario" and likely lasts much longer, but we're also not dealing with pharma....

You have a good idea of what the best practices are now. Just use as many as you find reasonable and your HGH will hold up better than 95% who don't do anything to protect theirs.

 

[LeeroyMatinta]

Not sure if you mean the BAC, but that's going to last essentially forever. (not really forever, but the expiration date doesn't mean much. Once used you are supposed to refrigerate BAC, but to be honest I don't. I'm extremely careful to avoid contaminating them.

As far as HGH lifespan, nobody knows as I said. It'll vary from batch to batch. Pharma is 28 days after reconstitution, which is certainly "worst case scenario" and likely lasts much longer, but we're also not dealing with pharma....

You have a good idea of what the best practices are now. Just use as many as you find reasonable and your HGH will hold up better than 95% who don't do anything to protect theirs.

Thanks a lot for help! In my case would you still buy from medex even if you would pay 250$ shipping?

 

[Ghoul]

Thanks a lot for help! In my case would you still buy from medex even if you would pay 250$ shipping?

How much did the UGL from Deus cost?

 

[LeeroyMatinta]

How much did the UGL from Deus cost?

1€ per ml. Medex is like 0,4€ per ml even with the shipping price. Ans the other pharma source in uk is like 0,8€ per ml with shipping. So medex is the best choice.

Does qsc have reship policy if my package gets seized or somehow doesn’t come? I guess I take a risk for ordering from china to europe. I will still order I guess the success rate id good enough.

 

[Ghoul]

1€ per ml. Medex is like 0,4€ per ml even with the shipping price. Ans the other pharma source in uk is like 0,8€ per ml with shipping. So medex is the best choice.

Does qsc have reship policy if my package gets seized or somehow doesn’t come? I guess I take a risk for ordering from china to europe. I will still order I guess the success rate id good enough.

Yes they reship. I have no concerns about QSC delivering. They're very good at that.

You have your answer about Medex, it's still much cheaper than the less desirable options. If it makes you feel any better, most sellers in the US charge $200+ for it, Medex is just very inexpensive.

 

[Sampei]

I'm not a shill for QSC in any way. However, I think they're closer to the peptide/protein therapeutic producing labs in China where all this stuff comes from, and because of the very large volume they buy, and extensive testing, are best positioned to demand better quality than others. The high turnover means fresh stock, and their prices are nearly unbeatable every time.

Personally I'd only use Hospira (Pfizer) BAC because I have my doubts others are using pyrogen free water, which is extremely difficult to produce, and not merely sterile, or worse distilled water. While some would argue over the significance of effects on health by routinely injecting these contaminants, it's unquestionable they contribute to protein degradation by acting as a "nucleus" around which proteins can form into globs that are at best ineffective, and at worst, trigger immune responses that can neutralize the drug making it less effective.

Since these "globs" ('aggregates' is the technical term) take time to form after reconstitution(referred to as 'incubation' by scientists that study these), days at least for the largest, most harmful types, lower dose vials that can be used more quickly is a good idea imo.

Ghoul in europe you can buy sterile water for pennies and inject your own BA into it and make bac water for pennies.

 

[Ghoul]

Ghoul in europe you can buy sterile water for pennies and inject your own BA into it and make bac water for pennies.

I understand, and certainly a good value.

For me though, a 30ml vial of perfect BAC that costs 10€ to reconstitute 2-3 kits of peptides costing hundreds, is cheap peace of mind. Even the bottle Pfizer chose to use was preferred over glass because they found fewer contaminant transferred into the liquid than glass. That's an extreme level of attention to detail.

The only unpleasant element of this is having to buy 25 vials all at once.

 

[Sampei]

I understand, and certainly a good value.

For me though, a 30ml vial of perfect BAC that costs 10€ to reconstitute 2-3 kits of peptides costing hundreds, is cheap peace of mind. Even the bottle Pfizer chose to use was preferred over glass because they found fewer contaminant transferred into the liquid than glass. That's an extreme level of attention to detail.

The only unpleasant element of this is having to buy 25 vials all at once.

Yeah sure but let's be realistic apart from the bottle everything else is perfectly the same of an hospira bac water content.

Sterile water is bought in the pharmacy and that's a pharmacy vial of glass with proper stopper and cap.

BA you buy USP/BP/pH.eur and you filter it even so it's not needed just to be 110% sure.

You got in the end a bac water that's 100% at a pharmaceutical standard.

 

[LeeroyMatinta]

I understand, and certainly a good value.

For me though, a 30ml vial of perfect BAC that costs 10€ to reconstitute 2-3 kits of peptides costing hundreds, is cheap peace of mind. Even the bottle Pfizer chose to use was preferred over glass because they found fewer contaminant transferred into the liquid than glass. That's an extreme level of attention to detail.

The only unpleasant element of this is having to buy 25 vials all at once.

Hey. Unrelated, but I have a question. Do you know where I can get pharma grade Aromasin/Arimidex that delivers to Europe? Might start with T too while taking hgh and want to have an AI just in case. Thank you

 

[Ghoul]

Hey. Unrelated, but I have a question. Do you know where I can get pharma grade Aromasin/Arimidex that delivers to Europe? Might start with T too while taking hgh and want to have an AI just in case. Thank you

Send a DM to @pharmacist

He supplies genuine pharma from within the EU.

 

[DugPrime]

Hey. Unrelated, but I have a question. Do you know where I can get pharma grade Aromasin/Arimidex that delivers to Europe? Might start with T too while taking hgh and want to have an AI just in case. Thank you

bgpharmadrugs

 

[LeeroyMatinta]

Send a DM to @pharmacist

He supplies genuine pharma from within the EU.

bgpharmadrugs

Is there a favorite between them two or are they more or less the same? pharmacist sells Adex from Teva Europa and bgpharmadrugs sells from Astrazeneca

 

[DugPrime]

Is there a favorite between them two or are they more or less the same? pharmacist sells Adex from Teva Europa and bgpharmadrugs sells from Astrazeneca

Both are trusted, so just go with the cheaper one.

 

[Sampei]

Is there a favorite between them two or are they more or less the same? pharmacist sells Adex from Teva Europa and bgpharmadrugs sells from Astrazeneca

Pharmacist customer service can't be beaten