Unbelievable... IGF-1 is low

[smartgear]

Igf-1 will be low due to

-caloric deficit
-trenbolone
-time / the longer you take exogenous rHGH the more the body adapts and produces antibodies (and the lower Igf-1 will be, to a certain point)
-low estrogen if I remember correctly but not sure so take it as what it's worth

Yes, I'm in caloric deficit right now.

I don't use trenbolone. I'm currently on testosterone and turinabol, but I'm planning to switch to testosterone and anavar soon.

Oral steroids increase liver enzymes. Can this suppress the conversion of HGH into IGF-1 by the liver?

E2 is not low, it's actually elevated - 500 pmol/L.

 

[HB_22]

Yes, I'm in caloric deficit right now.

There is your reason for seeing low igf-1.

 

[smartgear]

There is your reason for seeing low igf-1.

Well, IGF-1 is not really low, it's at the upper side of the reference range, meaning it's high. But I wanted it to be unnaturally high (above the reference range).

So, with 5 IUs HGH a day and caloric surplus, would it go beyond the reference range?

I thought that a supra physiological HGH dose (5 IUs a day) and HGH level (almost 6 ng/mL), would force to body to produce a lot of IGF-1 regardless of the diet. It seems I was wrong.

And what about the e2 level? I said it's 500 pmol/L. In such case, do I need AIs to reduce it assuming high e2 suppresses IGF-1 and makes it bound (unusable)? If it doesn't cause this, I'm not gonna use AIs because I don't have any e2 side effects.

 

[HB_22]

Well, IGF-1 is not really low, it's at the upper side of the reference range, meaning it's high. But I wanted it to be unnaturally high (above the reference range).

It's low for 5IUs, thats what I meant.

So, with 5 IUs HGH a day and caloric surplus, would it go beyond the reference range?

Yes, very likely. But you have to be in a caloric surplus for quite some time. Carbs + hgh will let your Igf-1 rise (to a certain point depending on the amount of hgh).

 

[smartgear]

It's low for 5IUs, thats what I meant.

If my IGF-1 is low for 5 IUs HGH a day, which puts me at 5.88 ng/mL HGH, and doesn't even go above the reference range, doesn't that mean my IGF-1 was near to non-existent when I had a natural HGH level, which was 0.03 ng/dL, and probably never in my life went above 1.00 ng/dL?

The reference range limit HGH is 3.00 ng/dL. If 5.88 ng/dL HGH can't increase IGF-1 above reference range and IGF-1 is actually low for that HGH level, I don't see a reason not to think I have a medical condition that caused me to have abnormally low IGF-1 my whole life, including during puberty.

If IGF-1 is low when HGH is 5.88 ng/mL, then it was non-existent when HGH was 0.03 ng/dL.

 

[songsofpyramids]

If IGF-1 is low when HGH is 5.88 ng/mL, then it was non-existent when HGH was 0.03 ng/dL

Your igf1 isn’t low, and it could be all sorts of personal reasons that are impacting your tests. You’re taking orals, have sky high estro, and in caloric deficit. All these impact conversion to igf1. Try when you’re at maintenance, with e2 in check, and not taking orals.

These tests are snapshots in time, not a holistic investigation. You could have gotten the test at a bad time, or had a bad test itself. You need more than 2 tests to make these conclusions.

 

[Toaster]

If my IGF-1 is low for 5 IUs HGH a day, which puts me at 5.88 ng/mL HGH, and doesn't even go above the reference range, doesn't that mean my IGF-1 was near to non-existent when I had a natural HGH level, which was 0.03 ng/dL, and probably never in my life went above 1.00 ng/dL?

The reference range limit HGH is 3.00 ng/dL. If 5.88 ng/dL HGH can't increase IGF-1 above reference range and IGF-1 is actually low for that HGH level, I don't see a reason not to think I have a medical condition that caused me to have abnormally low IGF-1 my whole life, including during puberty.

If IGF-1 is low when HGH is 5.88 ng/mL, then it was non-existent when HGH was 0.03 ng/dL.

Why do people like this make frantic posts looking for help then argue with people who give them answers?

As for what I quoted. None of what you said means anything because you don't have any data to back it up. You also have no idea how the drugs you're using work.

You may have a medical condition, but it's most likely psychological. This is compounded by the fact that you're trying to use drugs to fix it without an understanding of their effects.

Paranoia + lack of knowledge= this post

 

[jankoch]

-time / the longer you take exogenous rHGH the more the body adapts and produces antibodies (and the lower Igf-1 will be, to a certain point)

do you know any studies showing that?

 

[HB_22]

do you know any studies showing that?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8679304_Growth_Hormone_Antibodies_Formation_in_Patients_Treated_with_Recombinant_Human_Growth_Hormone

 

[17SS]

My IGF-1 was 168 without hgh. Will probably get it tested next week to see where it is now.

 

[smartgear]

Your igf1 isn’t low, and it could be all sorts of personal reasons that are impacting your tests. You’re taking orals, have sky high estro, and in caloric deficit. All these impact conversion to igf1. Try when you’re at maintenance, with e2 in check, and not taking orals.

These tests are snapshots in time, not a holistic investigation. You could have gotten the test at a bad time, or had a bad test itself. You need more than 2 tests to make these conclusions.

Here are the circumstances under which I did the IGF-1 test:

1. I wasn't eating anything 10 hours before the test.

2. I didn't sleep 12 hours before the test.

3. I was on 60 mg of turinabol each day and 300 mg of testosterone a week.

4. I injected 5 IUs of HGH 2.5-3 hours before the test.

I don't want to use AIs, because they are neurotoxic and increase LDL. Current e2 is around 500 pmol/L, but it doesn't cause any estrogenic side effects, so I don't see a reason to take AIs.

Okay, I will do another blood test after not using any oral steroids.

But other users say the longer I'm on HGH, the lower the IGF-1 will be, so it doesn't really matter. It seems I will have to start using insulin.

 

[smartgear]

It's low for 5IUs, thats what I meant.

Yes, I acknowledged this.

Yes, very likely. But you have to be in a caloric surplus for quite some time. Carbs + hgh will let your Igf-1 rise (to a certain point depending on the amount of hgh).

Isn't there an easier and faster way? If I just inject insulin, will thing happen overnight?

 

[HB_22]

Yes, I acknowledged this.


Isn't there an easier and faster way? If I just inject insulin, will thing happen overnight?

Sure, you could use lantus which is known to push Igf-1 higher than short acting insulin. Still... you need carbs to not go hypo, so either way you need to eat carbs.

I think the best thing is just to go back to normal eating in a small surplus without any exogenous insulin.

 

[smartgear]

Sure, you could use lantus which is known to push Igf-1 higher than short acting insulin. Still... you need carbs to not go hypo, so either way you need to eat carbs.

I think the best thing is just to go back to normal eating in a small surplus without any exogenous insulin.

Understood.

 

[songsofpyramids]

Current e2 is around 500 pmol/L, but it doesn't cause any estrogenic side effects, so I don't see a reason to take AIs.

I would look into this more. Recent research shows high e2 is pretty bad for you regardless of sides.

 

[UncleBuns]

Well, IGF-1 is not really low, it's at the upper side of the reference range, meaning it's high. But I wanted it to be unnaturally high (above the reference range).

So, with 5 IUs HGH a day and caloric surplus, would it go beyond the reference range?

I thought that a supra physiological HGH dose (5 IUs a day) and HGH level (almost 6 ng/mL), would force to body to produce a lot of IGF-1 regardless of the diet. It seems I was wrong.

And what about the e2 level? I said it's 500 pmol/L. In such case, do I need AIs to reduce it assuming high e2 suppresses IGF-1 and makes it bound (unusable)? If it doesn't cause this, I'm not gonna use AIs because I don't have any e2 side effects.

Dude, the title of your post is "Unbelievable... IGF-1 is low" and now you're saying that you think it's high? I'm not trying to be an asshole but you very obviously have little understanding of the compounds you're taking and what you're doing with your body. You also seem anxiety and fear prone and are making rapid decisions based off of bad information and fear. If you head down this road you're headed for bad side effects and bad outcomes.

I seriously think you should get off of everything and educate yourself for a year or two minimum. Another option would be to pay someone who is knowledgeable on these things to guide you if you must head down this road. Your knowledge base is woefully lacking. PED use should not be taken lightly and poor decision making can lead to serious negative consequences.

 

[smartgear]

Dude, the title of your post is "Unbelievable... IGF-1 is low" and now you're saying that you think it's high? I'm not trying to be an asshole but you very obviously have little understanding of the compounds you're taking and what you're doing with your body. You also seem anxiety and fear prone and are making rapid decisions based off of bad information and fear. If you head down this road you're headed for bad side effects and bad outcomes.

I seriously think you should get off of everything and educate yourself for a year or two minimum. Another option would be to pay someone who is knowledgeable on these things to guide you if you must head down this road. Your knowledge base is woefully lacking. PED use should not be taken lightly and poor decision making can lead to serious negative consequences.

My IGF-1 is not clinically low, because it's within the reference range and is actually at the upper end of the reference range.

When I initially claimed the IGF-1 is low, I meant it in the context of the exogenous HGH dose I use.

The HGH dose I use is 5 IUs a day, which puts me at 5.88 ng/mL of growth hormone. For the dose I use and the level I have, the IGF-1 is low.

So, the IGF-1 is not clinically low, but is low for the HGH dose I use and the GH level I have (5.88 ng/dL, which is above the reference range limit, which is 3.00 ng/mL).

The current IGF-1 level I have is what I should have when my GH level is natural (within the reference range), not when it's significantly above the reference range.

 

[UncleBuns]

My IGF-1 is not clinically low, because it's within the reference range and is actually at the upper end of the reference range.

When I initially claimed the IGF-1 is low, I meant it in the context of the exogenous HGH dose I use.

The HGH dose I use is 5 IUs a day, which puts me at 5.88 ng/mL of growth hormone. For the dose I use and the level I have, the IGF-1 is low.

So, the IGF-1 is not clinically low, but is low for the HGH dose I use and the GH level I have (5.88 ng/dL, which is above the reference range limit, which is 3.00 ng/mL).

The current IGF-1 level I have is what I should have when my GH level is natural (within the reference range), not when it's significantly above the reference range.

You're proving my point that you don't really understand what you're talking about. IGF-1 levels are not based on how much GH you take. It just isn't that simple. There are many factors that go into igf level. There are actually some excellent threads on this forum that explain all of this. If you took a little time to research and read you would understand all your questions about you GH dose and IGF level.

Pretty obvious you're going to keep putting drugs in your body without really understanding what you're doing. Good luck and I hope it works out.