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How much ya skwaat?

Nutpuncher said:
Front squats seems so painful. Any tips? Such as bar placement? You don't bite the bar do you?
Click to expand...
I started front squats as an alternative to the pain back squats always gave me. As of right now I couldn't be happier. I started from scratch and worked up thru good form. Took me 10 weeks to climb from 225 to 315 but worth it. My legs look better for sure.

I don't use the catch grip that would be better. I clearly lack the flexibility to pull it off. I just use cross arm and rest it across my upper pec meat and shoulders. A natural shelf and just brace it with my upright crossed arms. If I dump it I just shove it forward. No biggie. I get no pain just small bruises on the shoulders. This isn't basket weaving so I'll deal with it. The hardest part about front squatting is keeping upright. At least for me. I'd like to get 405 in the future for a solid 3.
 
gr8whitetrukker said:
I started front squats as an alternative to the pain back squats always gave me. As of right now I couldn't be happier. I started from scratch and worked up thru good form. Took me 10 weeks to climb from 225 to 315 but worth it. My legs look better for sure.

I don't use the catch grip that would be better. I clearly lack the flexibility to pull it off. I just use cross arm and rest it across my upper pec meat and shoulders. A natural shelf and just brace it with my upright crossed arms. If I dump it I just shove it forward. No biggie. I get no pain just small bruises on the shoulders. This isn't basket weaving so I'll deal with it. The hardest part about front squatting is keeping upright. At least for me. I'd like to get 405 in the future for a solid 3.
Click to expand...

I'm around 2.5 plates for reps in my front squat. Same issues with the oly grip - but I see that as a flexibility deficiency on my end, I need to increase my range of movement, especially my left arm/wrist is not what it should be. I've found good vids on youtube with rubber band stretch exercises to increase ROM. For now, cross grip. :-(

Front squats feel good, just force those elbows toward the sky and keep squatting. Borderline choke activity though. Much easier on the back, and in my case, hits the quads harder for sure.
 
I have a 430 back squat in me somewhere by the end of this cycle. I'll switch to front squats after the cycle to shake things up. Anyone have problems with cramping arms when front squatting, it's a fucked up angle on the arms for those prone to cramps ...
 
D-max said:
I read that in Mark Rippetoe's book, Starting Strength. He has several pages just explaining partial, full, and ATG squats, and that's what I took from it.

Rather than just tell me it's incorrect, explain why. That teaches me nothing.
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I was in a bit of a rush when I posted that and couldn't get into the detail I wanted to but here goes:

You are correct that the deeper you go, ATG, involves more glutes bc glutes work to extend the hips and the lower your ass sinks the greater the ROM they have to extend on the concentric.

You are incorrect that ATG involves less quads. It actually involves more quads bc one primary movement of the quads is to extend the knee. ATG has greater knee flexion bc you go deeper and therefore needs more knee extension on the concentric. You can also look at EKG data to verify this.

You are incorrect about greater hamstring involvement in most cases. Theoretically you're right, ATG squats would involve hamstrings more bc of a greater stretch. The problem lies in the fact that most people do not have the requisite flexibility to properly perform ass to grass squats. What ends up happening when they do so is bc of a lack of hamstring flexibility in most people they get "butt wink". When this happens the lumbar muscles and the hamstring muscles must relax while under tension. When a muscle is relaxed under tension there is no way to regain the same in inclement or stretch after. Not saying they stop working, just that they end up working less and less efficiently.

Here is a quote from Rip himself:

"ATG-level depth most usually requires that the lumbar muscles relax the lordosis and that the hamstrings relax before extreme depth can be reached. It doesn't sound like a good idea to me that anything be relaxed in a deep squat, since doing this kills your good controlled rebound out of the bottom and risks your intervertebral discs. Those rare individuals that can obtain ass-to-ankles depth without relaxing anything might be able to get away with it, but as a general rule you should squat as deep as you can with a hard-arched lower back and tight hamstings and adductors. This depth will be below parallel, but it will not usually be "ATG".

And you are correct on that parallel and ATG work all muscles more than partial squats do as well as full ROM squats being inherently safer than partials.
 
Docd187123 said:
I was in a bit of a rush when I posted that and couldn't get into the detail I wanted to but here goes:

You are correct that the deeper you go, ATG, involves more glutes bc glutes work to extend the hips and the lower your ass sinks the greater the ROM they have to extend on the concentric.

You are incorrect that ATG involves less quads. It actually involves more quads bc one primary movement of the quads is to extend the knee. ATG has greater knee flexion bc you go deeper and therefore needs more knee extension on the concentric. You can also look at EKG data to verify this.

You are incorrect about greater hamstring involvement in most cases. Theoretically you're right, ATG squats would involve hamstrings more bc of a greater stretch. The problem lies in the fact that most people do not have the requisite flexibility to properly perform ass to grass squats. What ends up happening when they do so is bc of a lack of hamstring flexibility in most people they get "butt wink". When this happens the lumbar muscles and the hamstring muscles must relax while under tension. When a muscle is relaxed under tension there is no way to regain the same in inclement or stretch after. Not saying they stop working, just that they end up working less and less efficiently.

Here is a quote from Rip himself:

"ATG-level depth most usually requires that the lumbar muscles relax the lordosis and that the hamstrings relax before extreme depth can be reached. It doesn't sound like a good idea to me that anything be relaxed in a deep squat, since doing this kills your good controlled rebound out of the bottom and risks your intervertebral discs. Those rare individuals that can obtain ass-to-ankles depth without relaxing anything might be able to get away with it, but as a general rule you should squat as deep as you can with a hard-arched lower back and tight hamstings and adductors. This depth will be below parallel, but it will not usually be "ATG".

And you are correct on that parallel and ATG work all muscles more than partial squats do as well as full ROM squats being inherently safer than partials.
Click to expand...
One of the best ways Ive found to activate the glutes over the quads is sumo squatting, is this consistent with your experience Doc?

I backsquat for strength in a wider powerlifting type stance, sumo for glute activation, and bring my feet in more narrow for A2G depth simulating my weightlifting stance for clean+jerk.
 
TANGO.ECHO.KILO said:
One of the best ways Ive found to activate the glutes over the quads is sumo squatting, is this consistent with your experience Doc?

I backsquat for strength in a wider powerlifting type stance, sumo for glute activation, and bring my feet in more narrow for A2G depth simulating my weightlifting stance for clean+jerk.
Click to expand...

This is basically how Louie teaches the squat....a super wide stanced squat. Yes I'd agree it helps the glutes do more work but the drawback is that you will limit your ROM somewhat as well.

Another way to get more glutes out of a normal back squat is to try to remain as upright in your torso as possible and to not sit as far back into the squat. This minimizes hamstring involvement and allows the glutes to work harder.

To quote a bright PL'er:

The quads should lift what they can and he glutes should lift what they must in the squat.
 
Docd187123 said:
I was in a bit of a rush when I posted that and couldn't get into the detail I wanted to but here goes:

You are correct that the deeper you go, ATG, involves more glutes bc glutes work to extend the hips and the lower your ass sinks the greater the ROM they have to extend on the concentric.

You are incorrect that ATG involves less quads. It actually involves more quads bc one primary movement of the quads is to extend the knee. ATG has greater knee flexion bc you go deeper and therefore needs more knee extension on the concentric. You can also look at EKG data to verify this.

You are incorrect about greater hamstring involvement in most cases. Theoretically you're right, ATG squats would involve hamstrings more bc of a greater stretch. The problem lies in the fact that most people do not have the requisite flexibility to properly perform ass to grass squats. What ends up happening when they do so is bc of a lack of hamstring flexibility in most people they get "butt wink". When this happens the lumbar muscles and the hamstring muscles must relax while under tension. When a muscle is relaxed under tension there is no way to regain the same in inclement or stretch after. Not saying they stop working, just that they end up working less and less efficiently.

Here is a quote from Rip himself:

"ATG-level depth most usually requires that the lumbar muscles relax the lordosis and that the hamstrings relax before extreme depth can be reached. It doesn't sound like a good idea to me that anything be relaxed in a deep squat, since doing this kills your good controlled rebound out of the bottom and risks your intervertebral discs. Those rare individuals that can obtain ass-to-ankles depth without relaxing anything might be able to get away with it, but as a general rule you should squat as deep as you can with a hard-arched lower back and tight hamstings and adductors. This depth will be below parallel, but it will not usually be "ATG".

And you are correct on that parallel and ATG work all muscles more than partial squats do as well as full ROM squats being inherently safer than partials.
Click to expand...

Nice to see you around bud, always great refreshers from ya.

On the subject of most people lacking the flexibility to squat ATG properly, stretching is the number 1 thing that most can do to bring up their strength. Without the proper mobility and flexibility you can't get your body to get in the most mechanically advantageous positions to lift so your short changing yourself right there. A tight muscle has so much stored potential that most can't even comprehend.

As for more shearing when you go ATG this is incorrect, the main reason for shearing is lack of hamstring strength and your PCL/ACL having to take the brunt of the flexion stability rather then your hamstring stabilizing it. This is also due to tight hammies because as soon as they relax under tension you can not make then fire until said tension is released.

Moral of the story stretch 20-30mins post workout make it a habit and your squat will grow.

PR for me was a 405 ATG 1mississippi paused squat @194lb BW
 
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