I really like Modafinil - even at low doses

[NotHuman]

This is where we have a conundrum similar to GLPs. "These benefits only apply to the obese, or diabetics.".

There is significant evidence suggesting benefits for "healthy" people using either Moda or GLPs, however, the ethics review for medical research required for approval of studies doesn't allow for long term experimentation in those without a "problem" that's supposed to be the target of the research. So we see a benefit, like white matter increasing after long term use "in narcolepsy" sufferers, and "stroke victims with fatigue", and the temptation is to dismiss these effects as being limited to those groups (which is always possible of course), but when you dig into the mechanism of action, it's not really anything to do with those conditions, and could very well apply to everyone, but modern research methods simply doesn't accommodate experimentation for "enhancement" purposes, only for treating illness.

There's a drug called "dalfampridine" that's showing the ability to boost "working memory", a major element of cognition closely associated with success and accomplishment, significantly, in healthy people. It's a drug for multiple sclerosis, and TLDR, improves the "electrical insulation" around nerves to prevent signals from "leaking" and therefore work more efficiently. It appears quite safe, with the major risk being making nerves too efficient, inducing tremors at too high of a dose.

It sounds like it's potentially an amazing physical and cognitive performance enhancer. Yet, studies on healthy people have been limited to 3 days. I'm eager to get my hands on some from India pharma.

I have to say, you’re doing a very good job talking me into taking it more regularly (not that you’re trying to).

I am very pro GLP1. I just started Retatrutide almost four weeks ago.

I take low dose lithium (10mg) and Telmisartan (40mg), along with aggressive ApoB reduction, all which have shown to be potentially anti dementia (I also take pregnenolone which could also be useful for brain health). But none of these things have a “smart drug” effect like Modafinil.

That’s being said, I do personally notice a slight increase in blood pressure on days I take Modafinil. Perhaps this is short lasting with continuous use, but not sure.

I haven’t read the whole thread. How much do you personally take?

 

[Zeus088]

There’s a ton of great info on this thread. @Ghoul I just saw your update on WakeAlert vs the Artivigil was very helpful. I just made my next bulk purchase and going to move to that.

The artivigil was helpful but they do have a tendency to crumble. I’ve been using artivigil 150 and modvigil 200 for a month. And it’s been a life saver for me as I continue to work on my sleep issues and excessive tiredness. It was interesting yet not surprising that trying to go through my primary care physician was a total cluster fuck. He wanted to know why I was so interested in these specific products and wanted to start with amphetamines. As I’ve learned more through this community, I just went to PCT zone and ordered my own.

I’ll take the artvigil as soon as I wake up 4:30-5am and then the modvigil an hour after. I agree with what’s been described on the thread that I didn’t experience an “effect” like I would on say adderall. It was just an absence of the inability to be productive throughout the day, and felt like I could be present rather than counting down to a nap. Because of this I’m able to fall asleep at a reasonable time now, which is helping my sleep slightly. I’ve had no issues falling asleep and as was said in the thread, I can even catch a nap if I want to on the weekend.

I started at half my current dose and increased and have had zero side effects and have avoided using amphetamines that the doctors seem to love prescribing. Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge and experiences!

 

[Ghoul]

There’s a ton of great info on this thread. @Ghoul I just saw your update on WakeAlert vs the Artivigil was very helpful. I just made my next bulk purchase and going to move to that.

The artivigil was helpful but they do have a tendency to crumble. I’ve been using artivigil 150 and modvigil 200 for a month. And it’s been a life saver for me as I continue to work on my sleep issues and excessive tiredness. It was interesting yet not surprising that trying to go through my primary care physician was a total cluster fuck. He wanted to know why I was so interested in these specific products and wanted to start with amphetamines. As I’ve learned more through this community, I just went to PCT zone and ordered my own.

I’ll take the artvigil as soon as I wake up 4:30-5am and then the modvigil an hour after. I agree with what’s been described on the thread that I didn’t experience an “effect” like I would on say adderall. It was just an absence of the inability to be productive throughout the day, and felt like I could be present rather than counting down to a nap. Because of this I’m able to fall asleep at a reasonable time now, which is helping my sleep slightly. I’ve had no issues falling asleep and as was said in the thread, I can even catch a nap if I want to on the weekend.

I started at half my current dose and increased and have had zero side effects and have avoided using amphetamines that the doctors seem to love prescribing. Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge and experiences!View attachment 307445View attachment 307446

Yeah it's the only downside to Artvigil, it's crumbly, while Waklert is a much better pressed pill.

I wouldn't give up on "educating" your doc, or another,. trying to get a prescription. Any doctor offering to prescribe amphetamine should be willing to look into Modafinil as a non-addictive, lower side effect alternative! You'd think they'd be happy to see a patient interested in a Sched IV alternative to a Schedule II drug well known for its abuse potential!

I think they're simply unfamiliar with it, and somewhat disturbed by any patient advocating for a specific medication.

"Why? It's essentially non addictive with far fewer side effects. It's Schedule 4, not 2, which clearly indicates it's a less dangerous drug.",

When I proposed to the psychiatrist who prescribed me adderall, he looked up Modafinil, said, "Fine with me, let's see if it works for you.".

I never got it filled and moved, and PCP was happy to refill the amphetamine, but treated me like a heroin addict when I asked to switch to Moda.

 

[Zeus088]

Yeah it's the only downside to Artvigil, it's crumbly, while Waklert is a much better pressed pill.

I wouldn't give up on "educating" your doc, or another,. trying to get a prescription. Any doctor offering to prescribe amphetamine should be willing to look into Modafinil as a non-addictive, lower side effect alternative! You'd think they'd be happy to see a patient interested in a Sched IV alternative to a Schedule II drug well known for its abuse potential!

I think they're simply unfamiliar with it, and somewhat disturbed by any patient advocating for a specific medication.

"Why? It's essentially non addictive with far fewer side effects. It's Schedule 4, not 2, which clearly indicates it's a less dangerous drug.",

I think if

That’s what I forgot to ask. @Ghoul I know you’ve shared a bunch of data on here. Is there a particular study or document etc. that I could reference and even bring it with me to my PCP? I don’t know if it would help, but at least it would show I’m not just pulling this out of the sky. If it doesn’t the simple solution is just switch providers of course.

 

[NotHuman]

I asked Liner AI if it’s safe to take 100mg of Modafinil long term, for what it’s worth.

“Long-term use of modafinil at a dosage of 100 mg per day is a subject of ongoing research, and while it is generally considered safe for short-term usage, its long-term safety profile is less certain. Several factors should be considered when evaluating the safety of long-term modafinil use.

### Safety Profile of Modafinil
Modafinil is a central nervous system stimulant used primarily for conditions causing excessive daytime sleepiness, such as narcolepsy and obstructive sleep apnea . It is generally well-tolerated, with a low potential for abuse and dependence compared to traditional stimulants . Most adverse effects reported are mild to moderate, including headache (up to 34%), nausea (up to 11%), and anxiety . Serious side effects are rare but can occur, particularly in the form of severe skin reactions or allergic responses .

### Long-term Effects
Regarding long-term effects, modafinil has been shown to produce cognitive benefits, particularly in individuals with sleep disorders , but evidence for lasting cognitive health benefits or neuroprotection is limited . Continuous long-term usage may lead to concerns about the impact on sleep architecture and overall brain health; some studies suggest that frequent use could potentially damage sleep quality. Additionally, some research indicates that long-term use might normalize performance rather than enhance it, similar to effects observed with long-term use of nicotine .

### Risks for Specific Populations
Certain populations should be cautious with modafinil use. Patients with pre-existing cardiovascular conditions, psychiatric disorders, or a history of substance abuse may face heightened risks. In such cases, modafinil should be used with monitoring under the supervision of a healthcare provider.

### Dosage Considerations
While 100 mg may be a lower dosage and likely considered safer for some users, it is critical to adhere to the prescribed recommendations and consult with healthcare providers about potential risks and the appropriateness of long-term use. Overuse or misuse of modafinil can lead to adverse effects, necessitating careful management.

### Conclusion
In conclusion, modafinil at a dosage of 100 mg per day may be safe for some individuals in the short term, but its long-term effects are not fully understood. Potential users should discuss their health history and goals with healthcare professionals to weigh the benefits and risks adequately. Regular monitoring and adjustment may be necessary for optimal safety and efficacy over time.”

 

[Ghoul]

I asked Liner AI if it’s safe to take 100mg of Modafinil long term, for what it’s worth.

“Long-term use of modafinil at a dosage of 100 mg per day is a subject of ongoing research, and while it is generally considered safe for short-term usage, its long-term safety profile is less certain. Several factors should be considered when evaluating the safety of long-term modafinil use.

### Safety Profile of Modafinil
Modafinil is a central nervous system stimulant used primarily for conditions causing excessive daytime sleepiness, such as narcolepsy and obstructive sleep apnea . It is generally well-tolerated, with a low potential for abuse and dependence compared to traditional stimulants . Most adverse effects reported are mild to moderate, including headache (up to 34%), nausea (up to 11%), and anxiety . Serious side effects are rare but can occur, particularly in the form of severe skin reactions or allergic responses .

### Long-term Effects
Regarding long-term effects, modafinil has been shown to produce cognitive benefits, particularly in individuals with sleep disorders , but evidence for lasting cognitive health benefits or neuroprotection is limited . Continuous long-term usage may lead to concerns about the impact on sleep architecture and overall brain health; some studies suggest that frequent use could potentially damage sleep quality. Additionally, some research indicates that long-term use might normalize performance rather than enhance it, similar to effects observed with long-term use of nicotine .

### Risks for Specific Populations
Certain populations should be cautious with modafinil use. Patients with pre-existing cardiovascular conditions, psychiatric disorders, or a history of substance abuse may face heightened risks. In such cases, modafinil should be used with monitoring under the supervision of a healthcare provider.

### Dosage Considerations
While 100 mg may be a lower dosage and likely considered safer for some users, it is critical to adhere to the prescribed recommendations and consult with healthcare providers about potential risks and the appropriateness of long-term use. Overuse or misuse of modafinil can lead to adverse effects, necessitating careful management.

### Conclusion
In conclusion, modafinil at a dosage of 100 mg per day may be safe for some individuals in the short term, but its long-term effects are not fully understood. Potential users should discuss their health history and goals with healthcare professionals to weigh the benefits and risks adequately. Regular monitoring and adjustment may be necessary for optimal safety and efficacy over time.”

AI can be helpful, but in this case is full of generic, broad statements that apply to the overwhelming majorly of medications. There is no clinical evidence from the last 30 years, and literally hundreds of published studies, of any long term health damage, beyond the rare skin condition I mentioned.

Even with the excessively cautious conclusions drawn by the algorithm, by comparison, as an alternative to traditional ADHD medications it's absolutely benign:

"While the long-term risk of side effects from ADHD treatments like Adderall and Vyvanse medications is low, some potential side effects include:

Brain damage

Prolonged use of high doses of stimulants may cause neurologic damage that can lead to cognitive deficits. However, research has not found adverse long-term effects of taking ADHD medication.

Growth

ADHD medications may cause delayed growth in adolescents. However, these effects are usually temporary and return to normal over time.

Heart damage

ADHD stimulants may increase the risk of heart damage in young adults.

Other potential side effects include:
Lack of appetite, Weight loss, Sleep disturbance, Tics, Anxiety, and Blunting effect.

Doctors should regularly follow up with ADHD patients to monitor for signs and symptoms of cardiovascular disease."

 

[NotHuman]

AI can be helpful, but in this case is full of generic, broad statements that apply to the overwhelming majorly of medications. There is no clinical evidence from the last 30 years, and literally hundreds of published studies, of any long term health damage, beyond the rare skin condition I mentioned.

Even with the excessively cautious conclusions drawn by the algorithm, by comparison, as an alternative to traditional ADHD medications it's absolutely benign:

"While the long-term risk of side effects from ADHD treatments like Adderall and Vyvanse medications is low, some potential side effects include:

Brain damage

Prolonged use of high doses of stimulants may cause neurologic damage that can lead to cognitive deficits. However, research has not found adverse long-term effects of taking ADHD medication.

Growth

ADHD medications may cause delayed growth in adolescents. However, these effects are usually temporary and return to normal over time.

Heart damage

ADHD stimulants may increase the risk of heart damage in young adults.

Other potential side effects include:
Lack of appetite, Weight loss, Sleep disturbance, Tics, Anxiety, and Blunting effect.

Doctors should regularly follow up with ADHD patients to monitor for signs and symptoms of cardiovascular disease."

There’s no comparison when it comes to safety between Modafinil vs Adderall/Vyvanse. The later is much worse. I don’t think anyone is debating that.

 

[ineffectual]

If I might suggest, and this comes from significant experimentation, given you're not having a hyper response I'd say this is a safe approach.

Try 200mg Moda and 100mg Armoda, taken at once, as soon as you wake.

I tried 200mg Moda and 100mg Armoda for a week and really didn't "feel" anything different. Just went to 200mg moda for a minute. The other morning I took 200mg Moda and 150mg Amo. That felt really good. I thought my morning caffeine had hit extra hard. I didn't realize until a little later it was probably the pills.

I don't think I stocked up on enough now. I will probably be ordering more but I have had a few smelly taped up boxes come to my house in the last month.

I will be trying the increased dose probably tomorrow.

 

[Ghoul]

I tried 200mg Moda and 100mg Armoda for a week and really didn't "feel" anything different. Just went to 200mg moda for a minute. The other morning I took 200mg Moda and 150mg Amo. That felt really good. I thought my morning caffeine had hit extra hard. I didn't realize until a little later it was probably the pills.

I don't think I stocked up on enough now. I will probably be ordering more but I have had a few smelly taped up boxes come to my house in the last month.

I will be trying the increased dose probably tomorrow.

I find the individual reaction can be quite variable. I know some for whom 100mg is like jet fuel.

I recently start taking a low dose of levothyroxine, 50mcg, to improve thyroid hormone levels, and the effect on boosting overall energy was so significant I had to dial back the Moda dose so it want too much to deal with.

 

[Excel.exe]

I recently start taking a low dose of levothyroxine, 50mcg, to improve thyroid

how is your tsh? when do you take it?

 

[ineffectual]

I find the individual reaction can be quite variable. I know some for whom 100mg is like jet fuel.

I recently start taking a low dose of levothyroxine, 50mcg, to improve thyroid hormone levels, and the effect on boosting overall energy was so significant I had to dial back the Moda dose so it want too much to deal with.

I looked into pricing of levothyroxine and thats super cheap.

 

[Ghoul]

how is your tsh? when do you take it?

TSH around 4(prior to starting). I take it first thing, before even getting out of bed, at least 30 mins before consuming anything else.

The effect has been nothing short of remarkable, especially in such a short time. Most noticeable later in the day, but I "feel" it all the time.

First couple of doses felt like they might have put me on the edge of anxiety, but that quickly subsided and now it just feels energizing, but in a subtle way.

 

[Excel.exe]

Around 4.

mine stays around 1.7 to 1.8 so i dont need to use t4 i guess. what tsh will you be trying to get to?

 

[Ghoul]

mine stays around 1.7 to 1.8 so i dont need to use t4 i guess. what tsh will you be trying to get to?

Based on feels, whatever TSH this small dose is putting me at lol. I'll check it in a month or so. As long as it's no lower than .25 it's ok.

Supposedly it takes 6 months for the full benefits to manifest.

Subclinical hypothyroidism is widespread from what I've read, and can often be the underlying cause of numerous conditions, especially those that are fatigue inducing like seasonal affective disorder and depression.

The "3 oclock effect" is a common sign, where energy seems to dissipate around that time.

 

[NotHuman]

Reading through this thread convinced me to do more of a deep dive on Modafinil research, so I decided to start taking it daily about three weeks ago.

Previously, I was only using it on an “as needed” basis, and I am surprised to find out that I don’t feel as if I have developed any sort of tolerance yet. I was doing 100mg daily and then upped it to 200mg the last few days. I have no plans to stop. One of the rare supplements/drugs I can actually feel.

 

[NotHuman]

TSH around 4(prior to starting). I take it first thing, before even getting out of bed, at least 30 mins before consuming anything else.

The effect has been nothing short of remarkable, especially in such a short time. Most noticeable later in the day, but I "feel" it all the time.

First couple of doses felt like they might have put me on the edge of anxiety, but that quickly subsided and now it just feels energizing, but in a subtle way.

A lot of the time, Introduction of thyroid hormone gives us a great initial feeling if we medically need it, but then what ends often up happening is our bodies adjust to the dose and the benefits go away, so be prepared to adjust the dosage if this happens to you.

I have struggled with poor T4 to T3 conversion for years, so I get nasty fatigue/brain fog if I’m not taking any direct T3. I’m taking 25mcg T3 in the mornings with my 200mg Modafinil and coffee and it is really helping my energy in the mornings.

 

[Ghoul]

A lot of the time, Introduction of thyroid hormone gives us a great initial feeling if we medically need it, but then what ends often up happening is our bodies adjust to the dose and the benefits go away, so be prepared to adjust the dosage if this happens to you.

I have struggled with poor T4 to T3 conversion for years, so I get nasty fatigue/brain fog if I’m not taking any direct T3. I’m taking 25mcg T3 in the mornings with my 200mg Modafinil and coffee and it is really helping my energy in the mornings.

It's so remarkably cheap, while I figured if I needed it 150 would be the most likely dose, 50 would give me flexibility. So far I wouldn't want this effect to be stronger than it is, but I'm sure down regulation might occur requiring an adjustment.

It's certainly late day "brain fog clearing" to an impressive extent.

 

[NotHuman]

It's so remarkably cheap, while I figured if I needed it 150 would be the most likely dose, 50 would give me flexibility. So far I wouldn't want this effect to be stronger than it is, but I'm sure down regulation might occur requiring an adjustment.

It's certainly late day "brain fog clearing" to an impressive extent.

You’re being smart about it. I’ve learned through trial and error that it’s always better to start low and go slow when it comes to thyroid hormone. I’ve tried jumping into what I thought would be my final dose too soon and it just made me feel worse.

 

[Ghoul]

You’re being smart about it. I’ve learned through trial and error that it’s always better to start low and go slow when it comes to thyroid hormone. I’ve tried jumping into what I thought would be my final dose too soon and it just made me feel worse.

I had low expectations seeing so many people complaining about how they wanted to get off what their doc put them on because they never felt better, only worse, sometimes for years. To think it may simply be too high a dose, because this feels fantastic to me.

 

[NotHuman]

I had low expectations seeing so many people complaining about how they wanted to get off what their doc put them on because they never felt better, only worse, sometimes for years. To think it may simply be too high a dose, because this feels fantastic to me.

It’s also important to realize not everyone has the same thyroid problem, so the solution will be different from one individual to another. If someone has a high TSH but converts T4 into T3 effectively, then T4 only is a good treatment option for this person.

Then there is someone like me with a very good TSH (1.6), Free T4 (1.4), but bad Free T3 (2.6). My reverse T3 was also high so when I took T4 alone, it didn’t go so well. Therefore, I needed to add T3 to my treatment strategy.

No one size fits all approach for thyroid health