Legs get stronger but don't grow???

[FuriousWO]

I've been tracking all my workouts and body measurements for the last year and I amazingly happy with everything but my legs. My legs haven't even grown a 1/4 inch in over a year but I'm far stronger on legs days
Example
5/23/14 Leg Press 200x10,250x10,270x10x10
4/26/15 Leg Press 360x15,450x12,540x8x8,590x5,450x10,360x10
But my quads haven't grown at all, wtf??? Is this normal?

 

[xgunx]

The only person ive known to have this problem was not eating enough and over training. He was cut and strong as fuck though.

 

[FuriousWO]

I've put 5" across my shoulders, 4" on my chest, 1" on my biceps and cut 2"+ off my waist in the same time. So I'm eating and training right I think

 

[xgunx]

Maybe you have been shedding fat and gaining muscle? I have noticed for a little while now that my scale isnt moving but im losing fat and gaining muscle. At some point the muscle will win.

I dont have to do much to my legs, its my upper body that makes me work my ass off. So maybe one of the other guys can give better advice.

 

[FuriousWO]

I focus on my upper body too, but I was surprised to see progress in strength but no size. I'll get over it [emoji3]

 

[weighted chinup]

Can you list your full leg workout for me, including how frequently you train legs, exercise selection, and total volume?

 

[FuriousWO]

I would love your help @weighted chinup, you were spot on with with the other advice. I'm banging out weighted dips with a plate now, and weighted chin-ups now too. Not a full plate on chin-ups but just upped it to 35lb Friday.

Legs 1xweek, almost everything I progressively work up to the max weight. Leg press I do some lighter warms ups as well.
Leg Press 10-12 plates 8-10x4-6sets
Leg extension 160-200x8-12x4
Seated Curl 145-160x8-10x4
Standing Curl 70-85x8-10x4
Seated calf raise 70-90x12x4
Calf Press (leg press machine) 270x15-20x4
Yes there's a noticeable lack of squats, I took a break from squats in January I was just frustrating myself with the weights. I couldn't squat shit for weight and it pissed me off. I know that wasn't the right move, but I planned on coming back to them.

 

[FuriousWO]

Sorry I was wrong, just checked my log I gave up squats in early March

 

[weighted chinup]

Thanks for posting it up. I'm a little surprised you haven't noticed an increase in size, volume seems to be sufficient, everything seems to be in an 8-10RM or close so intensity doesn't appear to be the problem.

Frequency has been hugely important for me in leg training, If I don't train them 2x weekly I notice more of an involution in both strength and sometimes even size than any other muscle group.

It's difficult for me to advise though based on the exercise selection, I have no real experience w/ leg press as the main lift on leg day. It's not uncommon in bodybuilding circles however so I'm sure there are a few guys who can advise you better than I can.

Best advice I can give you is to start squatting again though. There have been plenty of times when front squatting where I just wanted to say fuck it and drive home, so I can understand the frustration.

If you want to switch it up I can advise a slightly different leg routine, with squat as the main movement. This is basically what I do, minus the RDL's as I currently do weighted hyper extensions instead.

Pick a 8-10RM for all movements. For Squats I personally like to keep the RM around 5-7. I really respond well to the higher intensity, and it's still great for hypertrophy since I keep total volume for all my movements pretty high.

Perform 2x weekly, 3-4 days apart. Focus on getting stronger at the RDL and Squatting movement. RDL's do a phenomenal job of training hip flexors / hip flexion function and growing out your back legs. RDL's can be tricky to get a feel for and most of the time, imo, are performed incorrectly. You can do Weighted Hyper-extensions instead if you want.

F. squat will blow your fucking thighs up like nothing else.

Mobility is extremely important in any full ROM squat, so do mobility work as needed.

Romanian Deadlift 50 total reps w/ 8-10RM
Front Squat or Olympic Highbar Backsquat 50 total reps w/ 5-7RM
Single leg. leg extension 60-70 total reps w/ 10RM
Leg Curl 50 total reps w/ 10RM
Optional - Calf work, weighted hyper-extensions

 

[sin]

Thanks for posting it up. I'm a little surprised you haven't noticed an increase in size, volume seems to be sufficient, everything seems to be in an 8-10RM or close so intensity doesn't appear to be the problem.

Frequency has been hugely important for me in leg training, If I don't train them 2x weekly I notice more of an involution in both strength and sometimes even size than any other muscle group.

It's difficult for me to advise though based on the exercise selection, I have no real experience w/ leg press as the main lift on leg day. It's not uncommon in bodybuilding circles however so I'm sure there are a few guys who can advise you better than I can.

Best advice I can give you is to start squatting again though. There have been plenty of times when front squatting where I just wanted to say fuck it and drive home, so I can understand the frustration.

If you want to switch it up I can advise a slightly different leg routine, with squat as the main movement. This is basically what I do, minus the RDL's as I currently do weighted hyper extensions instead.

Pick a 8-10RM for all movements. For Squats I personally like to keep the RM around 5-7. I really respond well to the higher intensity, and it's still great for hypertrophy since I keep total volume for all my movements pretty high.

Perform 2x weekly, 3-4 days apart. Focus on getting stronger at the RDL and Squatting movement. RDL's do a phenomenal job of training hip flexors / hip flexion function and growing out your back legs. RDL's can be tricky to get a feel for and most of the time, imo, are performed incorrectly. You can do Weighted Hyper-extensions instead if you want.

F. squat will blow your fucking thighs up like nothing else.

Mobility is extremely important in any full ROM squat, so do mobility work as needed.

Romanian Deadlift 50 total reps w/ 8-10RM
Front Squat or Olympic Highbar Backsquat 50 total reps w/ 5-7RM
Single leg. leg extension 60-70 total reps w/ 10RM
Leg Curl 50 total reps w/ 10RM
Optional - Calf work, weighted hyper-extensions

This is basically my squat routine and has been for the last year except for my RDLS are in the 3-6 rep range and I some times add lunges and I do hip adduction and abduction exercises as well during one of my leg training sessions of the week. It has brought me more leg size in the past year than I gained the 2 years previous to this training style. Doesn't necessarily mean it will work for anybody but it definitely can work.

 

[FuriousWO]

I've been doing just about the same leg routine for the last 6-7 months so it's time for a change. I'm definitely stronger and that's excellent but I would like size on my legs. I'll start working legs 2x/week and modify my routine. Thanks everyone for the feedback, once again I continue to learn here at Meso.

 

[sin]

I've been doing just about the same leg routine for the last 6-7 months so it's time for a change. I'm definitely stronger and that's excellent but I would like size on my legs. I'll start working legs 2x/week and modify my routine. Thanks everyone for the feedback, once again I continue to learn here at Meso.

That gained strength will lend to hypertrophy once you get your programming settled. So even though you were hoping for size gains, you still made progress towards it. Just gotta look at it in a broader view

 

[Dr JIM]

I would love your help @weighted chinup, you were spot on with with the other advice. I'm banging out weighted dips with a plate now, and weighted chin-ups now too. Not a full plate on chin-ups but just upped it to 35lb Friday.

Legs 1xweek, almost everything I progressively work up to the max weight. Leg press I do some lighter warms ups as well.
Leg Press 10-12 plates 8-10x4-6sets
Leg extension 160-200x8-12x4
Seated Curl 145-160x8-10x4
Standing Curl 70-85x8-10x4
Seated calf raise 70-90x12x4
Calf Press (leg press machine) 270x15-20x4
Yes there's a noticeable lack of squats, I took a break from squats in January I was just frustrating myself with the weights. I couldn't squat shit for weight and it pissed me off. I know that wasn't the right move, but I planned on coming back to them.

Hypertrophy is the physiologic response to the movement of MASS against resistance, thus if you want them legs to get bigger decrease those reps and INCREASE the weight.

This is often best accomplished thru the use of COMPOUND flexor exercises and based on what you have posted the most important exercise BY FAR, the SQUAT, is MISSING as is the COMPOUND extensor exercises such as the Roman deadlift?

Your isolation leg exercises should be done last such as leg extensions or leg presses. (Also warmups should be A PART OF the leg routine)

Make these changes and I PROMISE YOUR LEGS WILL GROW

 

[FuriousWO]

Sold gentlemen!

 

[Dr JIM]

Thanks for posting it up. I'm a little surprised you haven't noticed an increase in size, volume seems to be sufficient, everything seems to be in an 8-10RM or close so intensity doesn't appear to be the problem.

Frequency has been hugely important for me in leg training, If I don't train them 2x weekly I notice more of an involution in both strength and sometimes even size than any other muscle group.

It's difficult for me to advise though based on the exercise selection, I have no real experience w/ leg press as the main lift on leg day. It's not uncommon in bodybuilding circles however so I'm sure there are a few guys who can advise you better than I can.

Best advice I can give you is to start squatting again though. There have been plenty of times when front squatting where I just wanted to say fuck it and drive home, so I can understand the frustration.

If you want to switch it up I can advise a slightly different leg routine, with squat as the main movement. This is basically what I do, minus the RDL's as I currently do weighted hyper extensions instead.

Pick a 8-10RM for all movements. For Squats I personally like to keep the RM around 5-7. I really respond well to the higher intensity, and it's still great for hypertrophy since I keep total volume for all my movements pretty high.

Perform 2x weekly, 3-4 days apart. Focus on getting stronger at the RDL and Squatting movement. RDL's do a phenomenal job of training hip flexors / hip flexion function and growing out your back legs. RDL's can be tricky to get a feel for and most of the time, imo, are performed incorrectly. You can do Weighted Hyper-extensions instead if you want.

F. squat will blow your fucking thighs up like nothing else.

Mobility is extremely important in any full ROM squat, so do mobility work as needed.

Romanian Deadlift 50 total reps w/ 8-10RM
Front Squat or Olympic Highbar Backsquat 50 total reps w/ 5-7RM
Single leg. leg extension 60-70 total reps w/ 10RM
Leg Curl 50 total reps w/ 10RM
Optional - Calf work, weighted hyper-extensions

As WCU has mentioned DECREASING the REPS allows you to INCREASE the weight, and challenging SKM with a higher weight is the best stimulus for HYPERTROPHY.

And somewhere around 5-7 reps is probably optimal for many exercises (isolation in particular) YET even lower reps may be better once you have peaked at an exercise (compound in particular).

Or you could say heck with all this WORK and pin those lacking thighs and hams with Synthol,

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Effects of Low-Versus High Load Resistance Training – Research Review
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-low-versus-high-load-resistance-training-research-review.html/


Schoenfeld BJ, Peterson MD, Ogborn D, Contreras B, Sonmez GT. Effects of Low- Versus High-Load Resistance Training on Muscle Strength and Hypertrophy in Well-Trained Men. J Strength Cond Res. http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=9000&issue=00000&article=96938&type=abstract

The purpose of this study was to compare the effect of low- versus high-load resistance training (RT) on muscular adaptations in well-trained subjects.

Eighteen young men experienced in RT were matched according to baseline strength, and then randomly assigned to 1 of 2 experimental groups: a low-load RT routine (LL) where 25-35 repetitions were performed per set per exercise (n = 9), or a high-load RT routine (HL) where 8-12 repetitions were performed per set per exercise (n = 9). During each session, subjects in both groups performed 3 sets of 7 different exercises representing all major muscles. Training was carried out 3 times per week on non-consecutive days, for 8 total weeks.

Both HL and LL conditions produced significant increases in thickness of the elbow flexors (5.3 vs. 8.6%, respectively), elbow extensors (6.0 vs. 5.2%, respectively), and quadriceps femoris (9.3 vs. 9.5%, respectively), with no significant differences noted between groups. Improvements in back squat strength were significantly greater for HL compared to LL (19.6 vs. 8.8%, respectively) and there was a trend for greater increases in 1RM bench press (6.5 vs. 2.0%, respectively).

Upper body muscle endurance (assessed by the bench press at 50% 1RM to failure) improved to a greater extent in LL compared to HL (16.6% vs. -1.2%, respectively).

These findings indicate that both HL and LL training to failure can elicit significant increases in muscle hypertrophy among well-trained young men; however, HL training is superior for maximizing strength adaptations.

 

[ShredMN]

I'd also suggest training them twice a week.

 

[theprodgicalson]

Couple of suggestions; stick 5lb weights under your heels. This will activate your quads much more doing squats like this. Make sure you are breaking at the knees first, and not the hips. Many people's first movement on squats is to break at the hips/waist then squat. Try using a lower weight and bending at the knees as the first movement. I be noticed this will also keep your posterior chain more in line with the movement.

Also after heavy squats, I like to do light weight short ROM squats. Not fully hitting the bottom on the movement, And not coming all the way to the top either. Thus keeping constant tension on the quads. Again I like to do these with a board of 5lb weights under my heels.

I also fully back training them twice a week. I like to switch the rep schemes tho whenever I train any body part twice in the same week.

 

[Docd187123]

I don't support plates under the heels for the most part. I'd rather advise him to get Oly shoes with a heel. Also partial rom squats can be damaging to the knee if you're not getting full depth stopping high can place a shearing force on the knee. Even with light weights I don't think it's a good idea.

 

[ruckin]

Just squat 3 times per week, problem solved. High bar olympic style and/or front squats.