MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

In addition, this so-called hearsay isn't coming from some nameless person whom we don't know. Its coming from mands who is a known respected vet. Do you think he is lying and making this up? You know him way better than that to not believe him.

So what? I don't care who it is, I'm not taking anyone's word for something they can't prove, including Mands. This business of engaging in conjecture and making unsupported claims is bro science.

So now when I ask questions and request information(such as what was the original concentration of the standard?; i.e. Genotropin at 36iu per 1.2ml). Instead of answering my questions and be open and transparent; you hide the information. In effect, you have chosen what information I can see and what information I can't see.

In effect, you have chosen what information I can see and what information I can't see. You may argue that this is not true censorship; but in the end you are controlling what information you disclose. What gives you the right to make this choice and choose whats ok for me to see and whats not ok? To me, this makes you a huge Hypocrit.

How in hell can I hide information I don't have?! I had nothing to do with this test. I have no more access to the information than you. Utterly absurd!
 
That's not really the point. I can purchase the drug for $1 and iu and sell it for either $3 an iu or I could go big like the pharmacy and insurance companies do and charge $12 an iu.

They point I was trying to make was this... If I can get them sold to me for less than $2.50 an iu and the person selling them to me is making a profit. What type of pricing do you think they are getting straight from the manufacture?
mands

You claimed the wholesale price of pharm grade GH was $1/IU. I posted evidence that you were wrong.
If you are referring to the quote above I wrote to iintensity? It was an example of the up-charging that happens. I already claimed later in the thread what "wholesale" price that I can get and it's not $1 an iu. I CAN see where I probably should of used could instead of can.

mands
 
So what? I don't care who it is, I'm not taking anyone's word for something they can't prove, including Mands. This business of engaging in conjecture and making unsupported claims is bro science.
I can prove what I pay for Pharm Grade GH. Just come on over and visit. :)

mands
 
How in hell can I hide information I don't have?! I had nothing to do with this test. I have no more access to the information than you. Utterly absurd!

Don't act so helpless, you and I both know that you and Jim have a very good relationship. You could very easily find the information needed to answer my questions. But instead of actually getting answers and a resolution to the questions that surround these tests, you sit back as a hypocrit and go along with the suppression of information.
 
Did @Dr JIM jim test: The Grey Tops also? I didn't see link anywhere.
Thanks gents.

Scroll back a bit yes I tested two greys that were posted by MANDS

Those tests revealed that "grays" are under dosed in a manner similar to all other generic GH I've tested, including the ten samples I've posted on this thread.

That being said no one should draw any broad based conclusions bc we are only taking about ten samples in the absence of IGF data from those running the samples I tested..


Unfortunately this is what I suspected would happen !!
 
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Now thart this thread has been completely derailed and sometimes I wonder if it is done intentionally. It seems to happen in the testing of generic Gh world. Anyways where are we. Yes thanks Dr. Jim and Mands I personally thank you for your work. The only point I understand @dr. jim has all the details of the Genotropin sample that is being used as reference been given to the community so we can compare that to the generics that have already been tested. I am not exactly sure why we end up with so much banter for so many pages since the grey tops report was released it was relatively quiet until those came back. For the sake of full disclosure though it would be nice to see the full genotropin report. Not that I know how to read it. Once again I believe the reports and have no reason not too. Dr Jim has my gratitude It his has been done on his dime. The whole community owes him a round of thanks.
 
Thanks for your support VR, but only when I see others post the IGF data they agreed to enlighten this community with will I even consider wasting any more of my time by posting standards which will add next to nothing to the validity of the data already cited
 
Thanks for your support VR, but only when I see others post the IGF data they agreed to enlighten this community with will I even consider wasting any more of my time by posting standards which will add next to nothing to the validity of the data already cited
I actually understand this point Jim. I am dissappointed at the commmunity and lack of participation required on their end. I would probably do the same considering you have done your part. Maybe people will step up but I have a feeling they won't they all have received what they are looking for. It would of probably been best for you and Mands to withhold the test until the community did their part.
 
Thanks for your support VR, but only when I see others post the IGF data they agreed to enlighten this community with will I even consider wasting any more of my time by posting standards which will add next to nothing to the validity of the data already cited

And what IGF data is this? Here we go round in circles again!! In addition, it is the standard that creates the validity of the test. If the standard is not of the same strength and dilution as the sample then you are not comparing apples to apples. This is becoming assinine.
 
Its probably too little, too late but I have a few different baseline IGF values over the last year and a half and another on its way (blood draw next week). If it would be helpful, I will run a sample GH at a requested protocol, get another IGF test, and post the results here.
 
I actually understand this point Jim. I am dissappointed at the commmunity and lack of participation required on their end. I would probably do the same considering you have done your part. Maybe people will step up but I have a feeling they won't they all have received what they are looking for. It would of probably been best for you and Mands to withhold the test until the community did their part.

Yeah, withhold the information, that will help people believe the tests(sarcasm). With this attitude the testing is a joke. I have posted a shitload of data and provided a link where there are a shitload more of both serums and IGF-1's posted on both MG's and the grey tops; as well as a shitload of other pharm and generic GH's that were tested. What more do you guys want? Do you realize how bad you are making this look to others outside of Meso(I know, you don't care what the rest of the community thinks)?
 
Yeah, withhold the information, that will help people believe the tests(sarcasm). With this attitude the testing is a joke. I have posted a shitload of data and provided a link where there are a shitload more of both serums and IGF-1's posted on both MG's and the grey tops; as well as a shitload of other pharm and generic GH's that were tested. What more do you guys want? Do you realize how bad you are making this look to others outside of Meso(I know, you don't care what the rest of the community thinks)?
I do care this is not the only place I hang out at. There as an agreement that those who donated IgF samples will post IGF tests. I think it is important for these tests not other tests done by other people but IGF samples coming from the same kit ad the samples tested. It seems you are trying too hard to discredit and don't get me wrong I like what you have done in the generic gh world. I think you are reaching here how bad we look. To you and Rajjin maybe. The whole community I think that point is highly debatable. At this point to the whole community it just might be a toss up to who has the agenda. I hear you on the genotropin sample but at this point the only agenda Jim would have is if he is peddling pharm gh and I would be very dissapointed because I have never received a show. As far as PM how many sponsors are peddling generic Gh. See this is how it looks to the community now we have to determine ourselves who has agendas and don't. Who is the laughing stock and who is not. Not easy considering that I don't think Jim has an agenda and I really don't think you do either. So I am left with what at the end of the day. Pharm Gh that is what I am left with.
 
Scroll back a bit yes I tested two greys that were posted by MANDS

Those tests revealed that "grays" are under dosed in a manner similar to all other generic GH I've tested, including the ten samples I've posted on this thread.

That being said no one should draw any broad based conclusions bc we are only taking about ten samples in the absence of IGF data from those running the samples I tested..


Unfortunately this is what I suspected would happen !!
Thanks Jim, I will check it out. Much appreciated.
 
I do care this is not the only place I hang out at. There as an agreement that those who donated IgF samples will post IGF tests. I think it is important for these tests not other tests done by other people but IGF samples coming from the same kit ad the samples tested. It seems you are trying too hard to discredit and don't get me wrong I like what you have done in the generic gh world. I think you are reaching here how bad we look. To you and Rajjin maybe. The whole community I think that point is highly debatable. At this point to the whole community it just might be a toss up to who has the agenda. I hear you on the genotropin sample but at this point the only agenda Jim would have is if he is peddling pharm gh and I would be very dissapointed because I have never received a show. As far as PM how many sponsors are peddling generic Gh. See this is how it looks to the community now we have to determine ourselves who has agendas and don't. Who is the laughing stock and who is not. Not easy considering that I don't think Jim has an agenda and I really don't think you do either. So I am left with what at the end of the day. Pharm Gh that is what I am left with.

Thank you for your response. You are one of the more level-headed people here. I honestly don't believe Jim has an agenda, but he does have a bias against generic GH and towards pharm GH which gets in the of looking at things objectively. I don't think anyone here that has read Jim's posts can deny that bias. Its not a bias for financial gain but a bias because that is what he actually believes; but nevertheless its still a bias and when conducting a scientific experiment such as this, the only person who has the data should not be a person of bias.

Let me address the topic of the IGF-1 tests you state people did not perform. When I offered the vial of grey tops to mands I mentioned that I would be taking from the exact same kit which I had just done a serum test on(in fact my 2nd serum test of the greys in 2 weeks). It was never mentioned that there was a requirement to perform an IGF-1 test as well from that exact same kit. And I have a hard time understanding why that even makes any difference on whether the data is shared or not. I don't think that Jim understands the extensive testing we have done via serums and IGF-1's over at PM. Jim is an expert at the labs but not at the real world results. Together with what we are doing over at PM and what you guys are doing over here, we could make a huge impact in the community if we just worked together.
 
I believe the wrong equation was used to calculate the concentration. The equation when using UV absorbance is called Beer's Law and is as follows:

Conc of unknown component =conc. of it corresponding component of
standard x Peak area(sample)/Peak area(standard)

So in another words it should be:

Conc = 3.72mg/ml x (area of GH we are testing)/(area of standard)

That is very different than the equation being used which is:

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

Don't act so helpless, you and I both know that you and Jim have a very good relationship. You could very easily find the information needed to answer my questions. But instead of actually getting answers and a resolution to the questions that surround these tests, you sit back as a hypocrit and go along with the suppression of information.


I'll explain how the mg/mL were determined for the two gray caps tested, even though you could have figured it out yourself.


AS1776-3 GRAY CAP

The formula used was:

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

The figures inside the {} are from the Humatrope standard and can be found here.

Using the formula,

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

{3.72 mg/ml / 65,493,455} x 25,231,986 = 1.4 mg/ml

y = 1.4 mg/ml



AS1776-1 GRAY CAP

The formula used was:

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

The figures inside the {} are from the Humatrope standard and can be found here.

Using the formula,

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

{3.72 mg/ml / 65,493,455} x 24,773,978 = 1.4 mg/ml

y = 1.4 mg/ml



AS1625-2 rhGH HUMATROPE STANDARD

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

{3.72 mg/ml / 65,493,455} x 65,493,455 = 3.72



As you can see, there were no errors with the mathematics, the chemist didn't use the "wrong equation," and nothing was hidden or withheld. The results are correct.

The question now becomes whether or not you will accept the results or try to find another way to discredit the test. Obviously, that was a rhetorical question.:rolleyes:
 
CBS, you've done a lot for the community and you've taken great pains to make sure you are clear but some people purposely don't understand your point. We know all the trolls and shills on here just love it.
 
I'll explain how the mg/mL were determined for the two gray caps tested, even though you could have figured it out yourself.


AS1776-3 GRAY CAP

The formula used was:

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

The figures inside the {} are from the Humatrope standard and can be found here.

Using the formula,

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

{3.72 mg/ml / 65,493,455} x 25,231,986 = 1.4 mg/ml

y = 1.4 mg/ml



AS1776-1 GRAY CAP

The formula used was:

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

The figures inside the {} are from the Humatrope standard and can be found here.

Using the formula,

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

{3.72 mg/ml / 65,493,455} x 24,773,978 = 1.4 mg/ml

y = 1.4 mg/ml



AS1625-2 rhGH HUMATROPE STANDARD

{3.72 mg/ml (AS1625-2 rHGH) / x1(peak area)} *x2 (peak area) = y mg/ml

{3.72 mg/ml / 65,493,455} x 65,493,455 = 3.72



As you can see, there were no errors with the mathematics, the chemist didn't use the "wrong equation," and nothing was hidden or withheld. The results are correct.

The question now becomes whether or not you will accept the results or try to find another way to discredit the test. Obviously, that was a rhetorical question.:rolleyes:

Jim already said in a recent post today or yesterday, that Genotropin was used as the standard for the last 4 tests, not Humatrope. Secondly you completely ignored the rest of the information I posted. What was the concentration of the Genotropin sample originally used as well as the grey top sample. In other words if I am comparing a 36iu Genotropin pen in 1.2ml of water to a 10iu vial of GH in 1ml of water then of course the 2 are not going to be able to be compareable and the 10iu vial is going to look short; because it is in comparison. I appreciate what you have done so far to break it down for me; this is a start. But can you understand why more information is needed?
 
Thank you for your response. You are one of the more level-headed people here. I honestly don't believe Jim has an agenda, but he does have a bias against generic GH and towards pharm GH which gets in the of looking at things objectively. I don't think anyone here that has read Jim's posts can deny that bias. Its not a bias for financial gain but a bias because that is what he actually believes; but nevertheless its still a bias and when conducting a scientific experiment such as this, the only person who has the data should not be a person of bias.

Let me address the topic of the IGF-1 tests you state people did not perform. When I offered the vial of grey tops to mands I mentioned that I would be taking from the exact same kit which I had just done a serum test on(in fact my 2nd serum test of the greys in 2 weeks). It was never mentioned that there was a requirement to perform an IGF-1 test as well from that exact same kit. And I have a hard time understanding why that even makes any difference on whether the data is shared or not. I don't think that Jim understands the extensive testing we have done via serums and IGF-1's over at PM. Jim is an expert at the labs but not at the real world results. Together with what we are doing over at PM and what you guys are doing over here, we could make a huge impact in the community if we just worked together.

So Let's get back to the sample test results and GH Serum/IGF1
image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
I just did a very quick glance at the GH Serum/IGF1 Data you were speaking of. If this is old and outdated then please excuse me.

Can you explain more in detail about IGF1 decreasing with these "Generics"?

Here is some Information you might find important

image.jpg
The source of a "Generic" is saying that GH Serum testing is the better test?

image.jpg
The therapeutic effects of rHGH are mediated by IGF1/IGFBP3

There are no clinical studies having subjects injecting a vial of "generic" GH to determine potency, strength, or if it's GTG.

There are no GH Serum "scores" that can determine if the product is "close" to PHARMA

You have to question the product if the source is pushing GH Serums as a form of legitimacy

Also, it seems that GH Serum and IGF1 are usually grouped together

So injecting an entire "generic" vial will elevate both GH Serum and IGF1
IGF1 can be elevated from one injection and 3-4 weeks isn't needed to see elevation in blood work
 
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