MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Do you even know what a wholesale cost is? Judging from your post I would say no!! You obviously have no clue how pharmaceuticals are priced. Next time you go to your pharmacy ask your pharmacist what the cost without insurance is on several brand name drugs as well as generics. Trust me, you will probably shit in your pants. To suggest that the pharmaceutical industry is selling their products at the lowest possible price while making a profit order to be competitive is probably one of the most ludicrous and false statements in this entire thread. While we rarely agree on things; I have always thought of you as one of the more intelligent people around here. If you honestly believe what you wrote, then I suggest you do some research as your comments show your knowledge is lacking in that area.

You're alluding to the patent issue and while it's true that the various GH makers have patent protection, they are not the only game in town. For that reason, prices must remain competitive.

The rest of your post is ad hominem and not worth my time. I notice Mands is now doing the same thing so you must be rubbing off on him.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

I can't even answer this CBS!! You are full of shit and don't have a clue what going on here.

You post with half the information.

What do you feel you're supposed to answer something? I didn't ask you a question. My reply was an observation - you were selectively quoting and taking my comments out of context.

 

[muscle96ss]

You're alluding to the patent issue and while it's true that the various GH makers have patent protection, they are not the only game in town. For that reason, prices must remain competitive.

The rest of your post is ad hominem and not worth my time. I notice Mands is now doing the same thing so you must be rubbing off on him.

Mands is a smart guy who knows what he is talking about, maybe you should listen to him.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Mands is a smart guy who knows what he is talking about, maybe you should listen to him.

I know what the reps for Serostim sell the kits to clinics for. You obviously DO NOT. They are NOT stealing if from the manufacture. lol

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
v.
SERONO LABORATORIES, INC.,
Defendant.


"In August of 1996, the FDA approved Serostim based upon a 12-week course of treatment, although many patients received Serostim for more than 12 weeks. 5. Serostim was a very expensive drug. The average wholesale price ("AWP") was $42 per mg. At 6 mg. per day, a prescription for Serostim was 168 mg. per 28-day cycle,"

http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/documents/Serono-Information.pdf

 

[muscle96ss]

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
v.
SERONO LABORATORIES, INC.,
Defendant.


"In August of 1996, the FDA approved Serostim based upon a 12-week course of treatment, although many patients received Serostim for more than 12 weeks. 5. Serostim was a very expensive drug. The average wholesale price ("AWP") was $42 per mg. At 6 mg. per day, a prescription for Serostim was 168 mg. per 28-day cycle,"

http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/documents/Serono-Information.pdf

Look up the fricking definition of the word "wholesale"??? Do you not understand that everything you keep posting has NOTHING to do with the actual cost of the manufacturer? Anybody who knows anything about the pharmaceutical industry and then some are reading this thinking what a complete dumbass you are as you still don't get it.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Look up the fricking definition of the word "wholesale"??? Do you not understand that everything you keep posting has NOTHING to do with the actual cost of the manufacturer? Anybody who knows anything about the pharmaceutical industry and then some are reading this thinking what a complete dumbass you are as you still don't get it.

Do you have dyslexia or some other learning disability that adversely affects your reading comprehension?

The post of mine that you just quoted was in DIRECT reference to Mands statement that he knows what "the reps for Serostim sell the kits to clinics for", i.e., the WHOLESALE cost. It had nothing whatsoever to do with cost to manufacture.

I've appended the entire conversation below. Perhaps that will help you. Tip: Read slowly.

That's not really the point. I can purchase the drug for $1 and iu and sell it for either $3 an iu or I could go big like the pharmacy and insurance companies do and charge $12 an iu.

They point I was trying to make was this... If I can get them sold to me for less than $2.50 an iu and the person selling them to me is making a profit. What type of pricing do you think they are getting straight from the manufacture?

Everyone can say all they want and post up studies but I know in "real life" pharm grade kits are not that expensive when sold to pharmacies or clinics.

Effectiveness of Recombinant Human Growth Hormone (rhGH) in the Treatment of Patients With Cystic Fibrosis
Comparative Effectiveness Reviews, No. 23.
Phung OJ, Coleman CI, Baker EL, et al.
Rockville (MD): Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (US); 2010 Oct.

"The 2008 average wholesale price per milligram of rhGH (somatropin, various manufacturers) ranged from $36 to $65, so it would cost $16,848 to $30,420 annually to treat a 30 kg adolescent receiving a dose of 0.3mg/kg/week.16,17"

I know what the reps for Serostim sell the kits to clinics for. You obviously DO NOT. They are NOT stealing if from the manufacture. lol

I can't even answer this CBS!! You are full of shit and don't have a clue what going on here.

You post with half the information.

"In August of 1996, the FDA approved Serostim based upon a 12-week course of treatment, although many patients received Serostim for more than 12 weeks. 5. Serostim was a very expensive drug. The average wholesale price ("AWP") was $42 per mg. At 6 mg. per day, a prescription for Serostim was 168 mg. per 28-day cycle,"

 

[muscle96ss]

Do you have dyslexia or some other learning disability that adversely affects your reading comprehension?

The post of mine that you just quoted was in DIRECT reference to Mands statement that he knows what "the reps for Serostim sell the kits to clinics for", i.e., the WHOLESALE cost. It had nothing whatsoever to do with cost to manufacture.

I've appended the entire conversation below. Perhaps that will help you. Tip: Read slowly.

No, actually I read it correctly. I just figured you must be talking about something else. Because there is absolutely no way that you would post a document that has figures from 20 years ago and say that its figures are more accurate than the current figures mands obtained directly first-hand from a rep. I know you are much smarter than that.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

No, actually I read it correctly. I just figured you must be talking about something else. Because there is absolutely no way that you would post a document that has figures from 20 years ago and say that its figures are more accurate than the current figures mands obtained directly first-hand from a rep. I know you are much smarter than that.

I'm the only one that has posted ANY verifiable evidence in this thread, not hearsay that came from a friend of a friend of a friend's cousin's husband's brother's wife. You stated earlier that you were interested in evidence and facts. I assumed (wrongly) that you weren't talking about evidence and facts from the bro lore - but then you are from ProMuscle so I guess my expectations were probably too high.

 

[flexhead]

Not sure how many folks read the thread beyond the folks participating, but no matter the ground truth, I found it interesting and it prompted me to do a bunch o research I wouldn't have otherwise done.

Thanks again (from me at least) to @mands and @Dr JIM for posting these tests.

Fully agree @grey . Even with the pissing matches here and there, the amount of good information is gold and people should really try to analyze it and digest it the best they can. Thank You to everyone who has had a positive impact on this thread especially @mands and @Dr JIM for providing the information to get the discussion started in the first place.

 

[Dr JIM]

Golly CBS don't I receive even partial credit for posting ten MS and HPLCs yet in the strictest sense they too are not verifiable per say.

So how about at least one
at-a-boy, hip hip hurray or what a damn fine performance Jimmy

 

[flexhead]

@Dr JIM ...you should have said "I didn't get a "harrumph" out of that guy!"

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Golly CBS don't I receive even partial credit for posting ten MS and HPLCs yet in the strictest sense they too are not verifiable per say.

So how about at least one
at-a-boy, hip hip hurray or what a damn fine performance Jimmy

Haha When I said I was the only one to post verifiable evidence, I wasn't referring to your HPLCs, just the arguments that ensued because of them. You already knew that, though.

But here's your attaboy.

 

[mands]

No, actually I read it correctly. I just figured you must be talking about something else. Because there is absolutely no way that you would post a document that has figures from 20 years ago and say that its figures are more accurate than the current figures mands obtained directly first-hand from a rep. I know you are much smarter than that.

The manufacture is obviously selling it at a loss duh!!!

This is just getting ridiculous at this point.

You can post as many studies and documents as you would like @CensoredBoardsSuck. But,
here is the thing...

You and I will never know the true cost of manufacturing.

I will tell this. I'm a hell of a lot closer than you ever will be to figuring it out and the reason? You have never purchased legally or illegally any type of PED or AAS in your life. You don't have any real life connections to anything related to what we are talking about here. You have internet and google.

Zero, Ziltch, Nada and nothing to add from personal experience.

I have an idea why don't you purchase some gh anonymously. Send it off for testing, Get baseline bloods, then run your gh, get bloods again and contribute a little in real life to the board as the community.

Enjoy!

mands

 

[Colt44]

Anybody know how much it cost to make this stuff?

 

[readyset]

Anybody know how much it cost to make this stuff?

Somewhere between 15 cents and 68 dollars an iu.

Were getting close.

 

[muscle96ss]

I'm the only one that has posted ANY verifiable evidence in this thread, not hearsay that came from a friend of a friend of a friend's cousin's husband's brother's wife. You stated earlier that you were interested in evidence and facts. I assumed (wrongly) that you weren't talking about evidence and facts from the bro lore - but then you are from ProMuscle so I guess my expectations were probably too high.

Seriously? You think that posting what the wholesale cost was of medication 20 years ago has anything to do with the actual cost to manufacture GH today? Yeah its verifiable, but who gives a shit, its meaningless! In addition, this so-called hearsay isn't coming from some nameless person whom we don't know. Its coming from mands who is a known respected vet. Do you think he is lying and making this up? You know him way better than that to not believe him. It seems like you have some preconceived notions and no matter what information is posted, you are never going to believe the truth.

See the bold, once again your bias is getting in the way of you making rational decisions. Its much easier to deny and deflect than it is to actually debate the true facts and data. You dismiss my statements because I am from ProMuscle. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Also, I am not just from ProMuscle, I am from other boards as well; the boards don't define us. You may not like PM, but there are many highly knowledgeable and respected guys over there. Just because you don't like how the source/sponsor section is run doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good information over there. You shouldn't be so narrow-minded, you might actually learn something.

 

[muscle96ss]

And one more thing CBS. Your handle is CensoredBoardsSuck. You obviously isolate yourself from censored boards because you believe in free speech and being open. That is fine and your choice if that is what you believe.

Whats ironic is in this case here, Jim has done a lab test where no matter how the results came out, we all knew that they would controversial. What I mean, is that no matter how the results came out there would be some that agree and some that disagree. So now when I ask questions and request information(such as what was the original concentration of the standard?; i.e. Genotropin at 36iu per 1.2ml). Instead of answering my questions and be open and transparent; you hide the information. In effect, you have chosen what information I can see and what information I can't see. You may argue that this is not true censorship; but in the end you are controlling what information you disclose. What gives you the right to make this choice and choose whats ok for me to see and whats not ok? To me, this makes you a huge Hypocrit.

Lets take this one step further. At least on other boards when the censor things, we know the reason or agenda for the censorship. In this case there is no reason for hiding the data. That is unless you have an agenda as well.

 

[mands]

Seriously? You think that posting what the wholesale cost was of medication 20 years ago has anything to do with the actual cost to manufacture GH today? Yeah its verifiable, but who gives a shit, its meaningless! In addition, this so-called hearsay isn't coming from some nameless person whom we don't know. Its coming from mands who is a known respected vet. Do you think he is lying and making this up? You know him way better than that to not believe him. It seems like you have some preconceived notions and no matter what information is posted, you are never going to believe the truth.

See the bold, once again your bias is getting in the way of you making rational decisions. Its much easier to deny and deflect than it is to actually debate the true facts and data. You dismiss my statements because I am from ProMuscle. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Also, I am not just from ProMuscle, I am from other boards as well; the boards don't define us. You may not like PM, but there are many highly knowledgeable and respected guys over there. Just because you don't like how the source/sponsor section is run doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good information over there. You shouldn't be so narrow-minded, you might actually learn something.

Save your breath big guy! I will do the same. There is no reason to keep arguing with CBS. Anyone that has half a brain can figure out Mr. Google Ninja after reading about two of his posts.

He has no experience in real life when it comes to what we are all about.

Lost all respect for him after he got into it with Millard.

mands

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

You can post as many studies and documents as you would like @CensoredBoardsSuck. But,
here is the thing...

You and I will never know the true cost of manufacturing.

That's true but it doesn't matter.

Muscles claimed GH was cheap to manufacture after the initial investment in equipment and infrastructure. I posted evidence that he was wrong.

You claimed the wholesale price of pharm grade GH was $1/IU. I posted evidence that you were wrong.

So even though the evidence I posted doesn't tell us the cost to manufacture, it doesn't matter. It was enough to show that you and Muscles are engaging in conjecture, and that neither of you have evidence of your own to refute it.

I will tell this. I'm a hell of a lot closer than you ever will be to figuring it out and the reason? You have never purchased legally or illegally any type of PED or AAS in your life. You don't have any real life connections to anything related to what we are talking about here. You have internet and google.

Zero, Ziltch, Nada and nothing to add from personal experience.

A very presumptuous and incendiary statement. Do you feel better now that you've been reduced to defending your position with ad hominems, Mands?

I've always liked you, Mands, so I had to think about how I should respond to this. I decided to let you have it and not return your flame. Trying to prove the availability of legit Chinese generic GH is obviously important to you. I don't care enough about it to engage in a tit for tat exchange with you, or attack your character and credibility as you've done mine.

I have an idea why don't you purchase some gh anonymously. Send it off for testing, Get baseline bloods, then run your gh, get bloods again and contribute a little in real life to the board as the community.

No thank you. I value my health enough that I am unwilling to risk immunogenicity.

 

[heady muscle]

Did @Dr JIM jim test: The Grey Tops also? I didn't see link anywhere.
Thanks gents.