MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

Also you guys keep ignoring the fact that Jintropin by Genescience, which was/is pharmaceutical grade GH that is patented and legit as they come; was being sold directly to people in the US very inexpensively until the mid 2000's when they got in huge trouble and had to quit selling that way. I believe it was due to politics and the olympics being in China. As a result you will never see real Jin's on the black market again like before as they are heavily regulated. Just because some of you weren't around back then doesn't mean it didn't happen. So if they could inexpensively then and technology has improved since then making it easier to do protein secretion technology; then why on earth would the actual cost of manufacturing increase? I wish people would quit speculating and talking shit out their ass that they have no clue about and start using common sense. There is so much misinformation in this thread it is ridiculous.
 
Just because some of you weren't around back then doesn't mean it didn't happen.

True, so this company was selling HGH legally to individuals in the US in the 2000's? When it was criminalized in the late 1980s? Sounds like illegal drug sales to me. You can understand why I might be skeptical of the claim there...

What was the price per kit back then? I am idly curious.
 
Also you guys keep ignoring the fact that Jintropin by Genescience, which was/is pharmaceutical grade GH that is patented and legit as they come; was being sold directly to people in the US very inexpensively until the mid 2000's when they got in huge trouble and had to quit selling that way. I believe it was due to politics and the olympics being in China. As a result you will never see real Jin's on the black market again like before as they are heavily regulated. Just because some of you weren't around back then doesn't mean it didn't happen. So if they could inexpensively then and technology has improved since then making it easier to do protein secretion technology; then why on earth would the actual cost of manufacturing increase? I wish people would quit speculating and talking shit out their ass that they have no clue about and start using common sense. There is so much misinformation in this thread it is ridiculous.
And I agree. They are available now.....just gotta research.

Why take more risk on an unregulated product.
 
True, so this company was selling HGH legally to individuals in the US in the 2000's? When it was criminalized in the late 1980s? Sounds like illegal drug sales to me. You can understand why I might be skeptical of the claim there...

What was the price per kit back then? I am idly curious.

They were around $2 an iu international and $3 per iu domestic. That is the price that sources such as mamta were selling them for; obviously they were paying less themselves from the factory. And yes, it was illegal but overlooked until there was government pressure due the olympics and wanting to keep a clean image. Just do a google search on "Jintropin" and you can better understand the history as their story was all over the news when they were busted. This eventually led to the formation of BioHygene and Hygetropin.

So when people talk about how expensive real GH is and how there is no way the Chinese can be producing real GH at this price; they are clueless and just talking out their ass and have no idea of the history or whats really going on. Real Chinese GH has been inexpensive for around a decade. I know you guys worship Dr. Jim, but you could learn alot from some of the old farts around here that have a lot of experience with this shit.
 
Real Chinese GH has been inexpensive for around a decade.

The "real GH" you are referring to here you just stated was vials of something being sold illegally direct to people. That just makes it more black market stuff in vials. I can buy any amount of illegal things in vials today too, doesn't serve as proof of anything other than the availability of vials of stuff purporting to be drugs.

Yet, you are using illegal sales from the Chinese to state that actual regulated, tested, and legitimate drugs sold by pharmacies are over priced. Doesn't follow.

Please forgive if I don't find that to be proof of a thing other than that the Chinese have enjoyed making money off illegal sales of substances with unverifiable contents for a few decades.

Saying that your "proof" of the inexpensive nature of HGH is that the Chinese sold vials of something at some concentration direct to people illegally in the 2000s is not particularly compelling.
 
Prove that it is expensive; lets see some figures.

I can't believe that I'm about to indulge you with this.

The high costs associated with the purification of rhGH and other biopharmaceuticals during the manufacturing process is well known to anyone who is even remotely familiar it.

The fact that you are willing to throw out matter-of-fact statements like "People that keep insisting that GH is so expensive to manufacture, do not understand the industry. The actual cost of the machinery to initially start a factory is very expensive. But once you have the machinery, the cost is quite inexpensive." is proof that it is you who does not understand the industry. Either that or you are intentionally trying to obfuscate the issue because of an agenda.

That we are still having this ridiculous discussion is absurd. By now it should be perfectly clear to any thinking person that this cockamamie idea of so-called generic Chinese GH being readily available at an affordable price, is a fantasy. The black market Chinese GH sellers/manufactures are expert alchemists, but I assure you the only thing they're turning into gold is the cash from desperate and ignorant buyers. Keep the dream alive, Muscles96.


BioMed Research International
Volume 2013 (2013), Article ID 312709, 18 pages

Review Article
Preparative Purification of Recombinant Proteins: Current Status and Future Trends
Mayank Saraswat, Luca Musante, Alessandra Ravidá, Brian Shortt, Barry Byrne, and Harry Holthofer

Abstract

Advances in fermentation technologies have resulted in the production of increased yields of proteins of economic, biopharmaceutical, and medicinal importance. Consequently, there is an absolute requirement for the development of rapid, cost-effective methodologies which facilitate the purification of such products in the absence of contaminants, such as superfluous proteins and endotoxins. Here, we provide a comprehensive overview of a selection of key purification methodologies currently being applied in both academic and industrial settings and discuss how innovative and effective protocols such as aqueous two-phase partitioning, membrane chromatography, and high-performance tangential flow filtration may be applied independently of or in conjunction with more traditional protocols for downstream processing applications.

"...Furthermore, escalating demands for increased protein titres, primarily for economic reasons, have shifted the bottleneck step from production to purification, with downstream processes (inclusive of purification) representing between 45 and 92% of the total cost of manufacturing a recombinant protein [4, 5]. Hence, devising an efficient and economical purification strategy is a key challenge and one which is faced by industrial and, to a lesser extent, by academic laboratories."


Journal of Bioscience and Bioengineering
Volume 99, Issue 4, April 2005, Pages 303–310

Review
Solubilization and refolding of bacterial inclusion body proteins
Surinder Mohan Singh, Amulya Kumar Pand

Inclusion bodies produced in Escherichia coli are composed of densely packed denatured protein molecules in the form of particles. Refolding of inclusion body proteins into bioactive forms is cumbersome, results in poor recovery and accounts for the major cost in production of recombinant proteins from E. coli. With new information available on the structure and function of protein aggregates in bacterial inclusion bodies, it has been possible to develop improved solubilization and refolding procedures for higher recovery of bioactive protein. Inclusion bodies are formed from partially folded protein intermediates and are composed of aggregates of mostly single types of polypeptide. This helps to isolate and purify the protein aggregates to homogeneity before solubilization and refolding. Proteins inside inclusion body aggregates have native-like secondary structures. It is assumed that restoration of this native-like secondary structure using mild solubilization conditions will help in improved recovery of bioactive protein in comparison to solubilization using a high concentration of chaotropic agent. Analysis of the dominant forces causing aggregation during inclusion body formation provides information to develop suitable mild solubilization procedures for inclusion body proteins. Refolding from such solubilized protein will be very high due to restoration of native-like secondary structure. Human growth hormone inclusion bodies were purified to homogeneity from E. coli cells before solubilization and refolding. Pure inclusion bodies were solubilized at alkaline pH in the presence of 2 M urea solution. The solubilized proteins were refolded using a pulsatile renaturation process and subsequently purified using chromatographic procedures. More than 40% of the inclusion body proteins could be refolded back to the bioactive native conformation. Mild solubilization is thus the key for high recovery of bioactive protein from inclusion bodies.


The Journal of Biological Chemistry, 276, 46856-46863. December 14, 2001
High Pressure Refolding of Recombinant Human Growth Hormone from Insoluble Aggregates STRUCTURAL TRANSFORMATIONS, KINETIC BARRIERS, AND ENERGETICS*
Richard J. St. John, John F. Carpenter, Claude Balny, Theodore W. Randolph

"... Frequently, after extensive research, refolding yields remain too low to justify commercial product recovery with chemical refolding methods. In addition, low protein concentrations needed for acceptable refolding yields lead to large processing volumes and require large quantities of toxic, corrosive chaotropes, with high associated purchase and disposal costs."



 
The ONLY legitimate GH manufacturers are registered with the WHO and NOT Wikipedia.

Few if any of the these "new" GH companies in China are WHO approved or registered in fact many don't even have contact info or don't even list GH as one of their "products".

If there is a "generic" GH manufacturing plant in China, it will be shut down in short order bc such a facility violates the WHO/WTO agreement that CHINA SIGNED!
 
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^^ this
Nx round:

1) thegreytop (again)
2) angtropin
3) godtropin

All have tested well (very well) in bloods

Gush then buy them all HD,I mean what more does anyone need but "bloods" posted on another forum, by some "bro" we don't know, who posted no baseline for comparison and damn sure never knew WTF he was pinning bc he never had it TESTED!
 
I have :

1 AngTropin
1 GodTropin
5.8mg/vial Sandoz Omnitrope (pharmacy)

Would like to donate these along with follow-up Blood Work...if the testing is still being done (looks like it might not be) :(

Save yourself some time and money. They're all under dosed.
 
What are some of the reasons for the differing IGF/HPLC values? One only needs to know and understand how certain factors effect the reliability of in-vitro testing but here are a few;

1) the generic GH was not folded correctly

2) the testing interval was to SHORT (2 vs 6 weeks for example)

3) the in-vitro and in-vivo assays were not conducted on the same generic "batch".

I've every reason to believe that's the case on the last four, if not all of the tests I conducted since NOT ONE PERSON who was running THE SAMPLES I PERFORMED ASSAYS ON ever posted IGF levels

(Using GH/IGF data obtained from users on other forums is anything but objective duh)

4) the variable GH concentrations among different generic "batches"

5) the well documented genetic differences of GH/IGF dose response curves

6) the extremely small number of individuals used to determine a GH/IGF dose response curve

7) the extremely small number of samples tested

8) the desire of others to make broad conclusions based upon limited data.

9) the need for the "bro
community" to extrapolate extremely confined data sets into simplified user friendly yet erroneous conclusions

10) the remote possibility GH elves substituted lower concentration GH in "Jim's lab"
:)
 
If you think you can buy legitimate pharm grade HGH for $1.35 per iu I have bridge to sell you. Even in countries where it is legal to simply buy above board from actual pharmaceutical companies the price is several multiples of that. Not uncommon to pay more than $1000 for a 100 IU kit in the US (from a pharmacy instead of a drug dealer).

I have no doubt you can but underdosed and overlabelled HGH for $.15 per fake IU though. But that has jack shit to do with the cost of the legitimate product.
$15 dollars for a kit? Who's getting that? Do you mean $1.50 lol

Well, someone in this very thread said you can get Chinese Pharm Grade from the factory for around .93 cents an iu you buy in bulk. Pretty damn cheap.

I can get right here in the states pharm grade GH for less than $2.50 an iu. But, it's so expensive to make. OMG! And that's getting it from someone that's marking it up $100 on me.

mands
 
I've every reason to believe that's the case on the last four, if not all of the tests I conducted since NOT ONE PERSON who was running THE SAMPLES I PERFORMED ASSAYS ON ever posted IGF levels

There were 5 samples tested, right? I'll be getting igf in 2 weeks. So you'll at least have 1.
 
@Dr JIM may I ask what pharm grade standard was used at 1.36mg to compare the other samples tested?

We know the new standard is the Genotropin 5.3mg correct?

mands
 
I can get right here in the states pharm grade GH for less than $2.50 an iu.


That is for HGH purchased with a script?

Not jerking your chain at all there, legitimately curious since that $2.50 per IU is less than 1 third of the cheapest with-script price I have seen anyone quote.

Only been looking for people quoting it for the last day or so since the topic was being discussed here. But the floor for price I have seen posted for US pharmacy purchased HGH was ~$7 per IU. Even that was an outlier with the majority of quoted script prices coming in closer to $10 per IU.

I did see lots of folks posting prices lower than that for "pharm grade HGH" that they were buying illegally... Just haven't found folks below that $7 IU price floor with a script getting it from pharmacies.
 
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That is for HGH purchased with a script?

Not jerking your chain at all there, legitimately curious since that $2.50 per IU is less than I third of the cheapest with-script price I have seen anyone quote.

Only been looking for people quoting it for the last day or so since the topic was being discussed here. But the floor for price I have seen posted for US pharmacy purchased HGH was ~$7 per IU. Even that was an outlier with the majority of quoted script prices coming in closer to $10 per IU.

I did see lots of folks posting prices lower than that for "pharm grade HGH" that they were buying illegally... Just haven't found folks below that $7 IU price floor with a script getting it from pharmacies.
That's not really the point. I can purchase the drug for $1 and iu and sell it for either $3 an iu or I could go big like the pharmacy and insurance companies do and charge $12 an iu.

They point I was trying to make was this... If I can get them sold to me for less than $2.50 an iu and the person selling them to me is making a profit. What type of pricing do you think they are getting straight from the manufacture?

Everyone can say all they want and post up studies but I know in "real life" pharm grade kits are not that expensive when sold to pharmacies or clinics.

Take it for what it worth. I'm with anecdotal evidence on this one.

mands
 
Gush then buy them all HD,I mean what more does anyone need but "bloods" posted on another forum, by some "bro" we don't know, who posted no baseline for comparison and damn sure never knew WTF he was pinning bc he never had it TESTED!
Those "bros" you are referring to that posted bloods on another forum I'd vouch for anyday of the week and twice on Sundays.
I've seen M96ss post now for over a dozen years and have pm'd him in the past on matters pertaining to gh. Not once have I ever had the impression or suspected M96ss was in the game for any other reason than finding affordable pharma quality gh. The other testers in that thread like Racepicks, Buck, Viking, all of which I've communicated with at one time or another are spending a lot of their own time and money to test these products and post their results for ANYONE to see.
They may not have 1/10th of the education in your field but that in no way diminishes what they have contributed to the community. IMO the point of in-vivo and in-vitro testing is NOT about taking sides but instead collecting data from all methods and finding the truth without also discounting common sense.

Jim, clearly you are more educated in this field than 99% of members here. Please stop taking things so personally and try to understand that we are all just trying to make sense of things.

Rick Kane aka Nozeryder aka Pray4surf aka
Tubes-Boobs-n-Doobs <--1997 original handle from Anabolex
 
That's not really the point. I can purchase the drug for $1 and iu and sell it for either $3 an iu or I could go big like the pharmacy and insurance companies do and charge $12 an iu.

That is the point. I don't know where you're getting those figures but retail profit margins are nowhere near that high. GH is expensive to buy because it is expensive to produce, period. No matter how you try to parse it, the retail price is high because the wholesale price is high, and, despite Chinese claims to the contrary, there is simply no way to get around that high manufacturing cost.

They point I was trying to make was this... If I can get them sold to me for less than $2.50 an iu and the person selling them to me is making a profit. What type of pricing do you think they are getting straight from the manufacture?

They are not getting pharm grade GH "straight from the manufacture." They are getting GH that has either been stolen or already subsidized buy insurance companies or government, from the black market. The pricing of black market GH is irrelevant. It cannot be extrapolated to the wholesale cost.

Everyone can say all they want and post up studies but I know in "real life" pharm grade kits are not that expensive when sold to pharmacies or clinics.

Take it for what it worth. I'm with anecdotal evidence on this one.

No need for anecdotal evidence.

[NOTE: The first study is based on Canadian GH prices. Pharmaceutical pricing, both wholesale and retail, is heavily regulated by provincial governments, so US wholesale pricing is likely higher still. The prices in the second study are 7-years-old and likely higher today.]


Healthc Policy. 2014 Feb; 9(3): 80–96.
Provincial Disparities of Growth Hormone Coverage for Young Adult Survivors of Paediatric Brain Tumours across Canada
Haroon Hasan, BSc, MPH, Fuchsia Howard, RN, PhD, Steven G. Morgan, PhD, Daniel L. Metzger, MD, Sabrina Gill, MPH, MD, Michelle Johnson, MD, Andrea C. Lo, MD, and Karen Goddard, MBCHB

"To simplify comparisons among the provinces, the medication price established for this regimen was based on the use of Humatrope® 12-mg cartridges (Eli Lilly Canada). In the event that provincial drug formularies did not provide the ingredient cost for this formulation of Humatrope®, a manufacturer wholesale price of CAD$560.04 was used as the ingredient cost, and applicable markup and provincial cost-sharing policies were applied to this price."



Effectiveness of Recombinant Human Growth Hormone (rhGH) in the Treatment of Patients With Cystic Fibrosis
Comparative Effectiveness Reviews, No. 23.
Phung OJ, Coleman CI, Baker EL, et al.
Rockville (MD): Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (US); 2010 Oct.

"The 2008 average wholesale price per milligram of rhGH (somatropin, various manufacturers) ranged from $36 to $65, so it would cost $16,848 to $30,420 annually to treat a 30 kg adolescent receiving a dose of 0.3mg/kg/week.16,17"
 
@Dr JIM may I ask what pharm grade standard was used at 1.36mg to compare the other samples tested?

We know the new standard is the Genotropin 5.3mg correct?

mands

All prior samples were assayed using a Humatrope standard and that includes the HPLCs of the last four that were posted

Genotrooin was the standard used for the MS results of the last FOUR samples posted.
=====-----------------------=======
Hey Muscles will you ever POST "the truth" on Karl's GH.

You entered Meso some time ago stating your reason for being here was "the truth" but months later neither yourself or K have posted the analyses you claimed would contain all the answers about Western Bio GH.

Hmm well how about posting those analyses instead of enclosing them in some PM shrine where few can view "the truth"!

You come onto this forum questioning the authenticity of my data but a year later still have NOT completed you "truth" crusade, damn hypocrite!
 
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