MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[muscle96ss]

JB, CBS, and others who actually believe that there is only 4iu GH in the various Chinese GH's tested thus far, I have a serious question. How do you account for the fact that there is a lot of data that has been posted on PM of both serum GH's and IGF-1's; with the majority of them being very good scores? If there were only 4iu's in each vial, then the numbers reported would have been much lower. I am just curious at what your explanation or theory is for this since it contradicts whats being reported in Jim's report.

Crickets??

Not a single one of you sheep who believe these tests cared to explain how you account for the large amount of data out there that contradict them. How can you blindly believe something without at least having a theory to explain the data in opposition??

I'm at the point where I just don't give a shit anymore. You guys can blindly believe whatever you choose to believe. Those of us at other boards know the truth of the matter and your actions only support that truth. Jim has shown that he has no integrity and its obvious he is never going to post the necessary data. And at this point, the ways things have gone lately, I don't even trust that he would not falsify the data. By the way he is acting, his ego is so HUGE, I thinks its obvious to the world that he would make up data before ever admitting he was wrong!

It's a shame as Meso has so much to offer in its uncensored format. If you guys would just work together you could achieve a lot. However, its clear that with the personalities you have here, nothing will ever be productive.

 

[flexhead]

I for one do not believe blindly and have not drawn any conclusions as of yet. I have certain suspicions that the data is supporting so far, but I am not willing to set then in stone and call it a day. I'm actually happy that you joined the discussion @muscle96ss . I think you brought forth questions that I could not have since I have never used HGH. You have real experience using various brands and types (generic and pharm) to bring to the table that many people do not.

I am still waiting for more data to be given. I think the data DrJim and mands have posted so far are great tools to be used. Unfortunately there is no other independent 3rd party data, that has tested in the same manner, to compare the results here in order to refute or support what has been posted here. On top of that there is not enough secondary support yet from the members who submitted samples to back up the data given. Hopefully this will change and as results are posted it will further the discussion.

Until then let the stalemate continue....

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Crickets??

Not a single one of you sheep who believe these tests cared to explain how you account for the large amount of data out there that contradict them. How can you blindly believe something without at least having a theory to explain the data in opposition??

I'm at the point where I just don't give a shit anymore. You guys can blindly believe whatever you choose to believe. Those of us at other boards know the truth of the matter and your actions only support that truth. Jim has shown that he has no integrity and its obvious he is never going to post the necessary data. And at this point, the ways things have gone lately, I don't even trust that he would not falsify the data. By the way he is acting, his ego is so HUGE, I thinks its obvious to the world that he would make up data before ever admitting he was wrong!

It's a shame as Meso has so much to offer in its uncensored format. If you guys would just work together you could achieve a lot. However, its clear that with the personalities you have here, nothing will ever be productive.

Crickets? Pardon me for not promptly responding to your bullshit..

Whatever data you're talking about from PM where people are given free kits in exchange for testing doesn't fucking matter. This is counterfeit GH! There's no consistency... Could be 1iu in 1 vial and 7iu in another because who's watching? Who's doing real testing to insure what's in the vial? No one!!

I'm no sheep pal and I don't agree with Jim on everything. You're saying he'd falsify the data? You're a pompous ass from the biggest scammer board on the planet and you're telling us nothing here will ever be productive? This thread was plenty productive before you came in trying to sabotage it.

The only IGF-1 test I'm interested in seeing is Colt's next week.

 

[Dr JIM]

I for one do not believe blindly and have not drawn any conclusions as of yet. I have certain suspicions that the data is supporting so far, but I am not willing to set then in stone and call it a day. I'm actually happy that you joined the discussion @muscle96ss . I think you brought forth questions that I could not have since I have never used HGH. You have real experience using various brands and types (generic and pharm) to bring to the table that many people do not.

I am still waiting for more data to be given. I think the data DrJim and mands have posted so far are great tools to be used. Unfortunately there is no other independent 3rd party data, that has tested in the same manner, to compare the results here in order to refute or support what has been posted here. On top of that there is not enough secondary support yet from the members who submitted samples to back up the data given. Hopefully this will change and as results are posted it will further the discussion.

Until then let the stalemate continue....

Are you kidding me.

Third party data hello the ONLY data on generic GH I'm aware of is what I've posted in this and elsewhere. Heck there's no "second party" GH data that I'm aware of.

Let's start with these re-salers posting THEIR SECOND PARTY DATA ON THEIR PRODUCTS and let me scrutinize it like MH has mine. That would make my day, perhaps I'll start with Karl's Western Bio "standard" LOL!

The ONLY forum where that could EVER OCCUR is Meso bc as JB so rightfully mentioned earlier, you'd be banned faster than flies on horse shit, the minute such criticism began elsewhere.

The fact is this a classic example of someone taking advantage of Meso's open free speech format.

There are occasions in which unbiased, well informed mediators (I such as animal exists) might be helpful on Meso and this thread may be one of them.

I've no choice but to insist MH post that standard data which he needs to end his blind criticism, otherwise this thread will end with a question mark rather than a bonafied conclusion!

Nonetheless you have my full support should you decide to spend between $600-1000 bucks for each MS and HPLC assay to acquire this THIRD PARTY DATA!

Crap I can't even get members to pay for IGF data in exchange for a GH analysis, so good luck.

 

[Dr JIM]

You sure are such a sweet person. Are you on tren? By the way this shit is not ending because you are a prideful prick that can't post whatever the fuck
You should post.

Hey SIMPLE any time you want to acquire similar GH data and post it do let us know and after YOUR DONE ILL tell you what you MUST DO to comply with some interlopers approval.

You like many other part time do drop in Meso members will be here today and gone tomorrow.

And thank God for that, bc you and others like you don't contribute anything of value to this forum and never will.

So as I said FUCK OFF and give Meat Head a big kiss as you exit you looser.

 

[muscle96ss]

Crickets? Pardon me for not promptly responding to your bullshit..

Whatever data you're talking about from PM where people are given free kits in exchange for testing doesn't fucking matter. This is counterfeit GH! There's no consistency... Could be 1iu in 1 vial and 7iu in another because who's watching? Who's doing real testing to insure what's in the vial? No one!!

I'm no sheep pal and I don't agree with Jim on everything. You're saying he'd falsify the data? You're a pompous ass from the biggest scammer board on the planet and you're telling us nothing here will ever be productive? This thread was plenty productive before you came in trying to sabotage it.

The only IGF-1 test I'm interested in seeing is Colt's next week.

You are fucking clueless. Only about 1/3rd of the data, if that, is from people who received free kits. The majority of it is from people like me who purchased kits with their own money and then got various bloodwork because they were curious as to how well they responded to the GH.

Secondly, you stated that the amount in each vial could vary. Once again, how in the hell are people getting consistent good serums and IGF-1's when the amount of GH is variable. Your dumb-ass theories are not supported by the data. So instead of saying, "Gee something doesn't make sense here!"; you ignore and invalidate the data because it came from PM and PM is a "scammer" board. It is this ignorance, lack of objectivity, and selective choice of what data you pay attention that leads to your wrong conclusions.

Thirdly, you call me a pompous ass, have you read Jim's post's? What, you guys can dish it out, but sure as hell can't take it. Its fine to have confidence, but the level of arrogance and attitude displayed is atrocious. Its funny because guys that are truly intelligent and experts in their fields don't need to brag about it and don't need to put others down to make themselves look better. In fact Jim has such a big ego that if he truly did have the correct information on the standard, he would have posted it and gone through and broken it down step-by-step to show how wrong I am. The fact that we are still having this argument, many weeks later, shows that Jim knows that its Karls GH that is AS1625-2 and he will never post it because it would destroy him.

 

[Dr JIM]

You have two options here MH.

You can continue to dodge or deflect the questions I've posed, and further expose your ignorance of analytical "chemistry" which has become blatantly apparent, or INFORM US ALL what you need (or believe is required) to certify a standard but know this, KARL's analysis isn't even close.

Oh and incidentally, if I did use K's GH as a standard against all other samples how would that destroy me? Because if that was the case all this data would be confirmed as UNDERDOSED by roughly ONE HALF, INCLUDING the Western Bio sample that was submitted in THIS THREAD Clown.

Now how can you reconcile those FACTS MH! WHAT facts either Katls initial sample was/is GTG and the others are under dosed, as I've already shown, or I used another standard! It's one or the other MH you can't have it both ways!

 

[muscle96ss]

You have two options here MH.

You can continue to dodge or deflect the questions I've posed, and continue to expose your ignorance of analytical "chemistry" which has become blatantly apparent, or INFORM US ALL what you need (or believe is required) to certify a standard but know this, KARL's analysis isn't even close.

Jim, here is the only information I am looking for:
1.) What was the original concentration and form of the Humatrope sample you tested. In other words was it a 5mg vial with 1 ml of bac water, was it a 10mg cartridge or pen with 1.2ml of water, etc..?
2.) I would like to see the lab test that shows that the sample was named AS1625-2 and shows how its concentration was determined to be 3.72mg/ml(or whatever concentration you are claiming it to be).

Thats it!!

Continue to dodge or deflect your questions??? I posted it almost 24 hours ago. This thread is a fucking joke!!

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

You are fucking clueless. Only about 1/3rd of the data, if that, is from people who received free kits.

I guess we'll just take your word on that then...

I understand the story you told about your finances but it still doesn't make sense to me why a "GH guru" like yourself would run generics. Gotta buy the kits at around $1.50/iu, gotta pay for and take the time to do bloods, time lost researching, etc. Someone with your supposed stature and connections could get seros for around $2.75/iu and avoid all the headaches.

Despite your explanation something is amiss..

 

[muscle96ss]

I guess we'll just take your word on that then...

I understand the story you told about your finances but it still doesn't make sense to me why a "GH guru" like yourself would run generics. Gotta buy the kits at around $1.50/iu, gotta pay for and take the time to do bloods, time lost researching, etc. Someone with your supposed stature and connections could get seros for around $2.75/iu and avoid all the headaches.

Despite your explanation something is amiss..

Sorry but the cheapest I have found Seros is around $550 a kit. I don't know what stature or connections has to do with it, I don't receive discounts on any of the AAS or GH that I buy. In addition I don't exploit my name/reputation to try to get freebies like a lot of vets do. Secondly, of all my IGF-1 scores and serum GH's, Serostim is on the lower end. So I am not a huge fan of it. However, if I could run legit Genotropin at that price I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[brutus79]

I guess we'll just take your word on that then...

I understand the story you told about your finances but it still doesn't make sense to me why a "GH guru" like yourself would run generics. Gotta buy the kits at around $1.50/iu, gotta pay for and take the time to do bloods, time lost researching, etc. Someone with your supposed stature and connections could get seros for around $2.75/iu and avoid all the headaches.

Despite your explanation something is amiss..

Because he wants to help the community! Jesus johnny, not everyone is just out for themselves. We know the $75 he saves on a kit and the $50 serum test and $50 igf test might not seem like savings for a cash strapped household, but when you factor in the countless lives he saves and millions of dollars he saves people by being the generic gh spokesperson on pm (and other boards of course) this altruistic approach is indispensable and worth it's weight in gold. We are lucky to have him here.

 

[muscle96ss]

I guess we'll just take your word on that then...

I understand the story you told about your finances but it still doesn't make sense to me why a "GH guru" like yourself would run generics. Gotta buy the kits at around $1.50/iu, gotta pay for and take the time to do bloods, time lost researching, etc. Someone with your supposed stature and connections could get seros for around $2.75/iu and avoid all the headaches.

Despite your explanation something is amiss..

Also, I don't consider myself a "GH guru". I have a lot of knowledge and experience, but I am still learning like the rest of you.

 

[Dr JIM]

Let's put it this way MH, if I did use Karl's standard YOUR FUCKED, but do answer the question!

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Sorry but the cheapest I have found Seros is around $550 a kit. I don't know what stature or connections has to do with it, I don't receive discounts on any of the AAS or GH that I buy. In addition I don't exploit my name/reputation to try to get freebies like a lot of vets do. Secondly, of all my IGF-1 scores and serum GH's, Serostim is on the lower end. So I am not a huge fan of it. However, if I could run legit Genotropin at that price I would do it in a heartbeat.

So are you now saying generics are better than seros?!

Also, I don't consider myself a "GH guru". I have a lot of knowledge and experience, but I am still learning like the rest of you.

You certainly made it seem like that in your intro when you came to this thread, here:

For those of you that aren't familiar with me from another board; I have been using GH since the early to mid-90's before GH was even available mainstream. There was no generic GH then, it was all pharm. Over the years I have used a shitload of both pharm and generic GH. Over the past several years I have compiled tons of data of serum GH's as well as IGF-1's on various pharm and generic GH as well as analyzed my actual physical results. All this data is posted in a thread on another board along with that of others, some who have done the same.

 

[muscle96ss]

Because he wants to help the community! Jesus johnny, not everyone is just out for themselves. We know the $75 he saves on a kit and the $50 serum test and $50 igf test might not seem like savings for a cash strapped household, but when you factor in the countless lives he saves and millions of dollars he saves people by being the generic gh spokesperson on pm (and other boards of course) this altruistic approach is indispensable and worth it's weight in gold. We are lucky to have him here.

In my real life, you know why I enjoy my job? Because I make a difference in people life's. The reward you get from that is like no other. When it comes to the internet, I believe in sharing what I have learned with others, just like others have done with me. It may not save the world, but it does make a difference. Perhaps when you get older and more mature you will understand

 

[muscle96ss]

Let's put it this way MH, if I did use Karl's standard YOUR FUCKED, but do answer the question!

I did, twice!!!

 

[brutus79]

Sorry but the cheapest I have found Seros is around $550 a kit. I don't know what stature or connections has to do with it, I don't receive discounts on any of the AAS or GH that I buy. In addition I don't exploit my name/reputation to try to get freebies like a lot of vets do. Secondly, of all my IGF-1 scores and serum GH's, Serostim is on the lower end. So I am not a huge fan of it. However, if I could run legit Genotropin at that price I would do it in a heartbeat.

You don't see what your connections has to do with the price you pay for a kit... right. If you can't get seros cheaper than $550 I am very sad for you. Very sad.

 

[brutus79]

In my real life, you know why I enjoy my job? Because I make a difference in people life's. The reward you get from that is like no other. When it comes to the internet, I believe in sharing what I have learned with others, just like others have done with me. It may not save the world, but it does make a difference. Perhaps when you get older and more mature you will understand

I like my job because I make a lot of money. That makes me happy. I hope when I am older I will be able to retire instead of continuing to work. That will also make me very, very happy.

 

[flexhead]

Are you kidding me.

Third party data hello the ONLY data on generic GH I'm aware of is what I've posted in this and elsewhere. Heck there's no "second party" GH data that I'm aware of.

Let's start with these re-salers posting THEIR SECOND PARTY DATA ON THEIR PRODUCTS and let me scrutinize it like MH has mine. That would make my day, perhaps I'll start with Karl's Western Bio "standard" LOL!

The ONLY forum where that could EVER OCCUR is Meso bc as JB so rightfully mentioned earlier, you'd be banned faster than flies on horse shit, the minute such criticism began elsewhere.

The fact is this a classic example of someone taking advantage of Meso's open free speech format.

There are occasions in which unbiased, well informed mediators (I such as animal exists) might be helpful on Meso and this thread may be one of them.

I've no choice but to insist MH post that standard data which he needs to end his blind criticism, otherwise this thread will end with a question mark rather than a bonafied conclusion!

Nonetheless you have my full support should you decide to spend between $600-1000 bucks for each MS and HPLC assay to acquire this THIRD PARTY DATA!

Crap I can't even get members to pay for IGF data in exchange for a GH analysis, so good luck.

Hold on there big fella @Dr JIM . I think you typed faster than you were reading. I clearly stated what you and mands have posted is the only third party data. I referred to you as 3rd party because you are independent from the manufacturer and from the reseller. You have no incentive to be biased either way other than to show independent results not tied to any parties financially involved. Also I was trying to state that it is unfortunate that there are NO other reports that followed your testing methodology to substantiate or refute your findings. How great would it be if there were ten other independent lab reports following the same methodology showing the exact same findings! Honestly I wish I had the funds to do what you did. I believe the more true scientific data to look at and to extrapolate from the better off we would be.

Now when I say secondary party data, I am referring to the people that sent in the samples. The ones that were supposed to back up the data you posted with GH serum reports and more importantly what you specifically requested IGF-1 results. Just so there is no confusion, if I was in your position, I would be equally pissed off about this! You spent a lot of time and money to facilitate this project and pretty much you are getting the big brush off from those you are trying to help except for one or two people. I'm sure you feel disrespected and that your efforts are unappreciated. So yes I get it. Time will tell if they post their lab results.

Pretty much this thread is at stand still because the only data I see being added at this point are the results from the lab work of members who submitted samples. Until then, all I see happening is Muscle96SS will continue to ask for the data he wishes to see and you will hold firm and tell him to go F' himself and in between others will chime in.

 

[muscle96ss]

So are you now saying generics are better than seros?!



You certainly made it seem like that in your intro when you came to this thread, here:

My body responds differently to different GH's. I get more water retention on Serostim than some other GH's and my blood work showed a poor response the last time I tested them. It could be the fillers, it could be because they are made from mammalian cells which is different than the process used for other GH's, or it could be something else; I don't know. I am just telling you my experience. So far, the old Thanktropin and Genotropin have been the best for me in terms of the least water retention and results.