MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[ProfessorX]

Thank you I would appreciate it.

I agree outside testing on samples is the best way to get accurate info if you trust your testing source.

I would have to disagree with you that stating testing GH serum levels are "flawed". It's only the first step in many additional steps in my opinion that's affordable for most.

I personally don't think when we test GH or IGF-1 levels we are testing concentration in all actuality. I believe most believe as do I if IGF-1 levels are raised similar to how they are raised while taking human grade products we can judge pretty closely what the vial contains.

mands

Yes, the 2 Labs I used are accredited labs (SIMEC Included)

GH Serum:

Lab Corp doesn't target Somatropin

So, a range of GH Proteins will elevated GH Serum results (Somatrem, 176aa, low quality Chinese Generic GH)

I believe a Generic that tested GH Serum 50ng/mL with no/low IGF1 elevation might be 176aa
(That vial is being tested)

As little as 5IUs injected SubQ and tested 3 hours later will double IGF1 (baseline must be established) This determines GH Vs Peptide

IGF1:

I agree with you, and wish more testing was done as such:

Using 5IUs of Legit Pharma and testing IGF1 within 8-10 days will give you a good comparison to Generics if tested the same.

IGF1 does reflect mg/IU
GH Serum does not

 

[muscle96ss]

Sorry brutha....really not trying to "start anything"

I've seen member "racepick" recently stating how his GH Serum reflects 10iu in the vial

That's just not so, especially when I've seen his IGF1 results extremely low (I believe he was injecting 10ius)

Product seemed extremely underdosed unless he is suffering from Protein Immunogenicity from injecting all those Generics

Again, just sharing some info.....theres a better IGF1 testing protocol that can be done as quickly as 8-10 days using only 5Ius

Saturation/Constant Peak doesn't require 4 weeks
IGF1 can be elevated immediately after Inject....same as GH Serum

Please look at the body of work that Racepicks has done as whole. He has done a lot of testing on various pharm grade GH with the same methodology as generic for comparison sake. That thread is a compilation of over 100,000 posts over a few year time span with tons of great data from people who have given selflessly of themselves and spent their own money and time on testing because of their passion on the subject as well as their desire to help others. I am actually quite familiar with the thread which you will better understand once you do more than glancing.

 

[ProfessorX]

Please look at the body of work that Racepicks has done as whole. He has done a lot of testing on various pharm grade GH with the same methodology as generic for comparison sake. That thread is a compilation of over 100,000 posts over a few year time span with tons of great data from people who have given selflessly of themselves and spent their own money and time on testing because of their passion on the subject as well as their desire to help others. I am actually quite familiar with the thread which you will better understand once you do more than glancing.

I do not deny there's been a good amount of time, and money spent
(Real Lab Analysis could have been done with the amount spent on LabCorp)

My understanding is that RacePick is an honest, trusted member

But..... once you start testing the product itself and compare it to Blood Work.....that's really where the progress is made.

A Generic GH Source recently sent out "samples" for testing.

He took the samples with the highest GH Serum and then had IGF1s done

Even with GH Serums results 30,40,50 ng/mL.....the vials seem to be underdosed by half (very low IGF1 results)

We are having these samples tested to confirm (mg/IU and purity)

Again, I just glanced at a few pages of the 200 page thread......but the recent IGF1 results are very low in my opinion....not to mention that there is only blood work done.....you need real lab analysis....and not only one Grey Top sent in by a source

 

[rpbb]

Thanks muscle, I've actually read the whole thread at PM, as well as this one, and they are both extremely helpful. the thing that confuses me the most is that I see serum and igf tests for generics coming out the same as pharmas.

by the way, this thread here on meso has taught me a ton

 

[rpbb]

I do not deny there's been a good amount of time, and money spent
(Real Lab Analysis could have been done with the amount spent on LabCorp)

My understanding is that RacePick is an honest, trusted member

But..... once you start testing the product itself and compare it to Blood Work.....that's really where the progress is made.

A Generic GH Source recently sent out "samples" for testing.

He took the samples with the highest GH Serum and then had IGF1s done

Even with GH Serums results 30,40,50 ng/mL.....the vials seem to be underdosed by half (very low IGF1 results)

We are having these samples tested to confirm (mg/IU and purity)

Again, I just glanced at a few pages of the 200 page thread......but the recent IGF1 results are very low in my opinion....not to mention that there is only blood work done.....you need real lab analysis....and not only one Grey Top sent in by a source

i could be reading it wrong, I thought the igf's on some of the generics were coming out similar to pharma

 

[ProfessorX]

i could be reading it wrong, I thought the igf's on some of the generics were coming out similar to pharma

I could be absolutely wrong....the IGF1 results posted there are hard to understand (for me)

I was under the impression 10ius was being injected

Also, the testers seem to just test one kit to another with no "wash out" in between testing

I'll have to have another look

There is a better Testing Protocol using only IGF1

 

[muscle96ss]

i could be reading it wrong, I thought the igf's on some of the generics were coming out similar to pharma

Exactly!! Actaully I don't find that confusing because 10iu = 10iu. In other words if the pharma and generics are both accurately dosed, then the results should be the same. I have used both extensively over the past 2 decades and have received no magical benefits from using pharm grade over the generics.

 

[muscle96ss]

I could be absolutely wrong....the IGF1 results posted there are hard to understand (for me)

I was under the impression 10ius was being injected

Also, the testers seem to just test one kit to another with no "wash out" in between testing

I'll have to have another look

There is a better Testing Protocol using only IGF1

I will be happy to answer any questions you have regarding my tests directly in this thread. However, if you have any questions regarding any of the tests performed by others than please post up in that thread on PM so that people like RP(Racepicks) have the opportunity to explain their methodology. I think it will be a much more productive discussion by having the people directly involved present.

 

[rpbb]

I didn't find anything confusing about the testing protocols, racepicks and the rest are doing a great job. I just hear so many horror stories that generic will never be as good as pharma, yet the numbers come out similar.

 

[rpbb]

I do not deny there's been a good amount of time, and money spent
(Real Lab Analysis could have been done with the amount spent on LabCorp)

My understanding is that RacePick is an honest, trusted member

But..... once you start testing the product itself and compare it to Blood Work.....that's really where the progress is made.

A Generic GH Source recently sent out "samples" for testing.

He took the samples with the highest GH Serum and then had IGF1s done

Even with GH Serums results 30,40,50 ng/mL.....the vials seem to be underdosed by half (very low IGF1 results)

We are having these samples tested to confirm (mg/IU and purity)

Again, I just glanced at a few pages of the 200 page thread......but the recent IGF1 results are very low in my opinion....not to mention that there is only blood work done.....you need real lab analysis....and not only one Grey Top sent in by a source

Prof, what testing are you doing?

 

[muscle96ss]

I didn't find anything confusing about the testing protocols, racepicks and the rest are doing a great job. I just hear so many horror stories that generic will never be as good as pharma, yet the numbers come out similar.

Those stories about generic never being as good as pharma are based on paranoia and nothing factual. Yes, there are plenty of krappy generics out there that are underdosed or don't contain any GH at all(there are also plenty of pharma fakes out there as well). But there are also some out there that are 100% completely legit and consistent over time. By doing the proper research and being an informed consumer, its not too hard to figure things out.

 

[ProfessorX]

I will be happy to answer any questions you have regarding my tests directly in this thread. However, if you have any questions regarding any of the tests performed by others than please post up in that thread on PM so that people like RP(Racepicks) have the opportunity to explain their methodology. I think it will be a much more productive discussion by having the people directly involved present.

No worries M.

Just understand I'm just sharing some info

When I see recent comments like this on PM:

"Serum hgh will always have its value. And not replaceable. Reason being IGF takes time to build up like a week to ten days. And IGF test will never be able to tell if some vials are dosed properly or if some are bunk. A sponsor can always have a mix of low dosage vials or even bunk vials in a kit. With IGF test you will never be able to pick it up. But with serum test you will be able to do so. Plus i feel IGF test is a bit more tricky than serum hgh test."

I've just gotta shake my head and wonder why after 200 pages of testing discussion members haven't figured it out. I dunno

All I can tell you is my experience...both "High Profile" generics I tested are not the same as what's being sold now (bait n switch). One has been worse than the other. Low IGF1 levels, red welts, etc. (inconsistent)

Also, samples recently sent out that the source thought was "overdosed" is most likely half the dosed vial (probably only 5IUs)

10IUs injected for weeks = IGF1 400s
IGF1 reflects dosage (mg/IU)

Some samples elevated GH Serum and might not be Somatropin at all

All of these are being tested of course

That's what you are missing. Accredited lab results

Injecting 10Ius for week(s) and getting IGF1 200-300 is very low

You should concentrate on IGF1 and Lab Analysis. Don't read too much info into the GH Serum results. Because the higher the number, doesn't mean anything. Low GH Serum results can still produce very elevated IGF1s

 

[mands]

They are not injecting 10iu's for weeks on a ED regimen? At least I didn't see that.

If they are then 200-300 is super low.

mands

 

[muscle96ss]

No worries M.

Just understand I'm just sharing some info

When I see recent comments like this on PM:

"Serum hgh will always have its value. And not replaceable. Reason being IGF takes time to build up like a week to ten days. And IGF test will never be able to tell if some vials are dosed properly or if some are bunk. A sponsor can always have a mix of low dosage vials or even bunk vials in a kit. With IGF test you will never be able to pick it up. But with serum test you will be able to do so. Plus i feel IGF test is a bit more tricky than serum hgh test."

I've just gotta shake my head and wonder why after 200 pages of testing discussion members haven't figured it out. I dunno

All I can tell you is my experience...both "High Profile" generics I tested are not the same as what's being sold now (bait n switch). One has been worse than the other. Low IGF1 levels, red welts, etc. (inconsistent)

Also, samples recently sent out that the source thought was "overdosed" is most likely half the dosed vial (probably only 5IUs)

Some samples elevated GH Serum and might not be Somatropin at all

All of these are being tested of course

That's what you are missing. Accredited lab results

Injecting 10Ius for week(s) and getting IGF1 200-300 is very low

You should concentrate on IGF1 and Lab Analysis. Don't read too much info into the GH Serum results. Because the higher the number, doesn't mean anything. Low GH Serum results can still produce very elevated IGF1s

I think we can agree that anyone that has a healthy liver and is taking 10iu's of GH per day for weeks, should definitely not have a IGF-1 200-300. I don't think anybody would dispute that.

In regards to the serums tests, let me make things real simple. In all the testing that I have done where I have done a serum GH and done a corresponding IGF-1 for that GH; the higher the serum score, the higher my IGF-1 was. I have noticed a similar pattern in others. So based on that, anybody that has a history of doing bloodwork that includes both serum GH's and IGF-1's, can perform a serum test and gain an abundance of information with just that number. So, random serum GH's are a screening tool that has some value, but serum's from people that have a history have much more meaning.

 

[ProfessorX]

They are not injecting 10iu's for weeks on a ED regimen? At least I didn't see that.

If they are then 200-300 is super low.

mands

That's what I think I read. 10Ius for a week or two on the Generics

Again....maybe I misread....it's hard to follow because it's mainly 10IU IM 3.5 Hr (GH Serum)

I don't see a very good structured testing protocol

They are making it way too complicated

A simple 5IU for as little as 8 days then pull an IGF1

You can't read too much into the "numbers"

For purity/quality.....you have to test the product itself. Blood Serum can't tell you that info

 

[ProfessorX]

I think we can agree that anyone that has a healthy liver and is taking 10iu's of GH per day for weeks, should definitely not have a IGF-1 200-300. I don't think anybody would dispute that.

In regards to the serums tests, let me make things real simple. In all the testing that I have done where I have done a serum GH and done a corresponding IGF-1 for that GH; the higher the serum score, the higher my IGF-1 was. I have noticed a similar pattern in others. So based on that, anybody that has a history of doing bloodwork that includes both serum GH's and IGF-1's, can perform a serum test and gain an abundance of information with just that number. So, random serum GH's are a screening tool that has some value, but serum's from people that have a history have much more meaning.

We've recently debunked that brutha.....GH Serums very low or very high.....all produce the same IGF1 levels (approx)

The issue is what's being posted....not all the blood results get posted.

This has been proven recently..most members post the "good" serums because they are getting free testing kits and don't want to "harm" the source.

Because of that...you get "forced" information...or mislead

IGF1 levels are stable brutha

IGF1 reflects Mg/IU (dose) NORDITROPIN STUDY
GH Serums do not and fluctuate (unstable)

LINK:
http://www.somatropin.cn/hghtest.html (How to test whether growth hormone is real or fake?)

All this info (IGF1 versus GH Serum) was done using Blood Work, MS/HPLC, Protein Mapping, etc

It was you I believe that didn't fully understand IGF1 levels elevating immediately after SubQ injection and not believing a GH Serum of 10ng/mL can yield an IGF1 of 600

 

[muscle96ss]

That's what I think I read. 10Ius for a week or two on the Generics

Again....maybe I misread....it's hard to follow because it's mainly 10IU IM 3.5 Hr (GH Serum)

I don't see a very good structured testing protocol

They are making it way too complicated

A simple 5IU for as little as 8 days then pull an IGF1

You can read too much into the "numbers"

For purity/quality.....you have to test the product itself. Blood Serum can't tell you that info

Honestly, you really need to read the thread before you criticize the protocol. Not only is it very solid, but some of the guys have done various experiments to learn more about some of the variables involved in the protocol. For example, buck has done 3 tests at varying time intervals on the same day to find out at what draw time he has his peak(i.e. 2:15, 2:45, 3:15). He has not done this once, but done this numerous times. These guys are always coming up with new things that could be effecting the protocol and doing experiments like that to see what effects it may have. You really can't grasp what is going on by glancing or reading the cliff notes.

 

[muscle96ss]

We've recently debunked that brutha.....GH Serums very low or very high.....all produce the same IGF1 levels (approx)

The issue is what's being posted....not all the blood results get posted.

IGF1 levels are stable brutha

IGF1 reflects Mg/IU (dose) NORDITROPIN STUDY
GH Serums do not and fluctuate (unstable)

LINK:
http://www.somatropin.cn/hghtest.html (How to test whether growth hormone is real or fake?)

All this info was done using Blood Work, MS/HPLC, Protein Mapping, etc

It was you I believe that didn't fully understand IGF1 levels elevating immediately after SubQ injection and not believing a GH Serum of 10ng/mL can yield an IGF1 of 600

We are definitely not on the same page here, not sure exactly what you are saying. Like I stated before, please post your questions in the thread on PM where others who are involved in the testing and much smarter than I can reply and hopefully articulate things better than I am obviously doing here.

 

[ProfessorX]

We are definitely not on the same page here, not sure exactly what you are saying. Like I stated before, please post your questions in the thread on PM where others who are involved in the testing and much smarter than I can reply and hopefully articulate things better than I am obviously doing here.

All good brutha

We really are on the same page

Looking for a quality consistent Generic GH......I've just gone about it differently (Real Lab Analysis)

They all start off great......but

With any Black Market product there will always be issues...including Pharma GH

But....with the Abundance of Legit Chinese Pharma (consistent dose/quality).....Generics are a waste of time IMO

 

[muscle96ss]

All good brutha

We really are on the same page

Looking for a quality consistent Generic GH......I've just gone about it differently (Real Lab Analysis)

They all start off great......but

We have talked about this a lot on the thread over at PM and there are a number of members as well as sponsors that are in favor getting lab analysis done and willing to donate out of pocket for it. We have been real close to actually undertaking that project but have never quite gotten there yet. The biggest issue with getting that done is finding someone who is willing to take responsibility for coordinating everything(its really a lot more work than people realize). I have volunteered to help as much as I can but cannot make a full commitment due to time constraints. The second issue is that there have actually already been some recent lab tests that are not public information. So some of us are not real anxious to jump in and get involved in something where we already know the results. I cannot elaborate on that second issue more than that.