MALDI-TOF-MS/HPLC-UV-VIS rHGH results

[ProfessorX]

We have talked about this a lot on the thread over at PM and there are a number of members as well as sponsors that are in favor getting lab analysis done and willing to donate out of pocket for it. We have been real close to actually undertaking that project but have never quite gotten there yet. The biggest issue with getting that done is finding someone who is willing to take responsibility for coordinating everything(its really a lot more work than people realize). I have volunteered to help as much as I can but cannot make a full commitment due to time constraints. The second issue is that there have actually already been some recent lab tests that are not public information. So some of us are not real anxious to jump in and get involved in something where we already know the results. I cannot elaborate on that second issue more than that.

Yes...testing is expensive...takes time....can be a pain in the arse

For me, curiosity got the best of me....but....now I know waaay more about the subject than a should

The best way for testing is to have the same kit tested (blood work/MS-HPLC)

That's what we've done recently with the kits that had GH Serums ranging from 9 to 50

These kits all had similar IGF1 results

SIMEC is doing the final test (mg-purity)

I've used a U.S. based lab...but they cannot do MG/IU

 

[ProfessorX]

Thank you I would appreciate it.

I agree outside testing on samples is the best way to get accurate info if you trust your testing source.

I would have to disagree with you that stating testing GH serum levels are "flawed". It's only the first step in many additional steps in my opinion that's affordable for most.

I personally don't think when we test GH or IGF-1 levels we are testing concentration in all actuality. I believe most believe as do I if IGF-1 levels are raised similar to how they are raised while taking human grade products we can judge pretty closely what the vial contains.

mands

This is why I have to shake my head again....recent post at PM:

"I think the serum testing is certainly valuable. I think the past has shown the best ones will score the highest."

"Looking at my data and yours, our tests seem very consistent and I would be willing to bet that if we took a serum test of an unknown and then had to guess how much GH was in the vial, we would get it pretty close."

"Highest score is better" and "GH Serum = Concentration" has been proven totally false with Blood Work/SIMEC/Lab testing combo

This is why I say their testing method is flawed because they continue to beat the same drum with the GH Serums

Not bashing anyone at PM.....but those two posts are recent. I don't understand why they can't see the wrong with the testing they are doing and have done. Again, all of this has be proven wrong with accredited lab results and blood work to compare

(HPLC/MS) VS ($55 Lab Corp GH Serum Test)

It's not even as close as apples and oranges

 

[rpbb]

This is why I have to shake my head again....recent post at PM:

"I think the serum testing is certainly valuable. I think the past has shown the best ones will score the highest."

"Looking at my data and yours, our tests seem very consistent and I would be willing to bet that if we took a serum test of an unknown and then had to guess how much GH was in the vial, we would get it pretty close."

"Highest score is better" and "GH Serum = Concentration" has been proven totally false with Blood Work/SIMEC/Lab testing combo

This is why I say their testing method is flawed because they continue to beat the same drum with the GH Serums

Not bashing anyone at PM.....but those two posts are recent. I don't understand why they can't see the wrong with the testing they are doing and have done. Again, all of this has be proven wrong with accredited lab results and blood work to compare

(HPLC/MS) VS ($55 Lab Corp GH Serum Test)

It's not even as close as apples and oranges

I agree, but it is another piece in the puzzle, and you're the first person I've heard of sending gear to simec (which I think is great, thanks!!). I'm surprised with all the money they are spending on serum and igf testing over there, no one has sent out for hplc and mass spec testing to an acredited lab

 

[ProfessorX]

I agree, but it is another piece in the puzzle, and you're the first person I've heard of sending gear to simec (which I think is great, thanks!!). I'm surprised with all the money they are spending on serum and igf testing over there, no one has sent out for hplc and mass spec testing to an acredited lab

Because it's easy to use the $55 Lab Corp Test as a selling tool for all those generics

Those sources advertise (30.7 Serum Red Top!!)
They may only contain 4ius per vial

Trust me....with the recent test samples we did blood work on.....Very high GH Serum results, but actually underdosed....those sources don't want members independently sending out their GH Vials for REAL TESTING

They prefer to keep those members doing vague GH Serums

And if a member gets a low GH Serum Score......they are a "Low Responder" or didn't hit the 3.5 HR Peak

Knowing what I know now (REAL LAB TESTING) it's actually funny to see how all that plays out. SUCKAS!

 

[rpbb]

Because it's easy to use the $55 Lab Corp Test as a selling tool for all those generics

Those sources advertise (30.7 Serum Red Top!!)
They may only contain 4ius per vial

Trust me....with the recent test samples we did blood work on.....Very high GH Serum results, but actually underdosed....those sources don't want members independently sending out their GH Vials for REAL TESTING

They prefer to keep those members doing vague GH Serums

And if a member gets a low GH Serum Score......they are a "Low Responder" or didn't hit the 3.5 HR Peak

Knowing what I know now (REAL LAB TESTING) it's actually funny to see how all that plays out. SUCKAS!

it's great what you are doing, and I am extremely thankful that you are getting the testing done. one thing I would like to see in this thread is not a shitstorm and name calling, let the data speak for itself.

Another question, (and I am not defending anything whatsover), if 10 iu's of generic and 10 iu's of pharma produce the same serum result, what does that mean. this subject is so much more complicated than testing steroids, and thanks again

 

[ProfessorX]

it's great what you are doing, and I am extremely thankful that you are getting the testing done. one thing I would like to see in this thread is not a shitstorm and name calling, let the data speak for itself.

Another question, (and I am not defending anything whatsover), if 10 iu's of generic and 10 iu's of pharma produce the same serum result, what does that mean. this subject is so much more complicated than testing steroids, and thanks again

Doing an IGF1 comparison (dose to dose) and running it the same amount of time....yes....that's the better comparison (a shorter run like 8-10 days is best IMO)

I couldn't really follow the IGF1 results at PM (only glanced)

Are there many test like that there? 10IU to 10IU

Again, I only see mainly GH Serums there (they focus on that number as quality or concentration)

If they are starting a better IGF1 protocol combined with some random Real Lab Testing...that would be good.

 

[rpbb]

they are just hinting now at lab testing from what I can tell. And personally, I can't be to critical, because I'm not doing the testing. that's why I always appreciate any testing that people go out of there way to do

 

[rpbb]

I will be happy to answer any questions you have regarding my tests directly in this thread. However, if you have any questions regarding any of the tests performed by others than please post up in that thread on PM so that people like RP(Racepicks) have the opportunity to explain their methodology. I think it will be a much more productive discussion by having the people directly involved present.

thanks muscle, I understand the protocol you are using for serum tests. what protocol are you using for igf testing

 

[muscle96ss]

This is why I have to shake my head again....recent post at PM:

"I think the serum testing is certainly valuable. I think the past has shown the best ones will score the highest."

"Looking at my data and yours, our tests seem very consistent and I would be willing to bet that if we took a serum test of an unknown and then had to guess how much GH was in the vial, we would get it pretty close."

"Highest score is better" and "GH Serum = Concentration" has been proven totally false with Blood Work/SIMEC/Lab testing combo

This is why I say their testing method is flawed because they continue to beat the same drum with the GH Serums

Not bashing anyone at PM.....but those two posts are recent. I don't understand why they can't see the wrong with the testing they are doing and have done. Again, all of this has be proven wrong with accredited lab results and blood work to compare

(HPLC/MS) VS ($55 Lab Corp GH Serum Test)

It's not even as close as apples and oranges

One of those posts you quoted is mine and you are completely missing the point. You cannot compare serums from one person to another. However, you can compare serums within the same individual! What buck will score on a serum test of a certain HGH and what I will score are going to be completely different and not compareable. What I score between 4 different brands of GH tested within the same time period with the same methodology is comparable and invaluable. It has been shown time and time again in the data presented. Once again, EVERY single serum test that I have performed along with a corresponding IGF-1 has shown that the higher my serum, the higher my IGF-1. So, on PM when we have people establishing their personal histories through doing repeated serums, the numbers are very valuable as their resume builds up.

 

[muscle96ss]

thanks muscle, I understand the protocol you are using for serum tests. what protocol are you using for igf testing

There is no real protocol, you simply get your blood drawn. They have been doing it at various intervals and on various dosages. When I say various intervals; some guys are doing it every week from 7 days on until it peaks to actually see how long it takes.

 

[ProfessorX]

One of those posts you quoted is mine and you are completely missing the point. You cannot compare serums from one person to another. However, you can compare serums within the same individual! What buck will score on a serum test of a certain HGH and what I will score are going to be completely different and not compareable. What I score between 4 different brands of GH tested within the same time period with the same methodology is comparable and invaluable. It has been shown time and time again in the data presented. Once again, EVERY single serum test that I have performed along with a corresponding IGF-1 has shown that the higher my serum, the higher my IGF-1. So, on PM when we have people establishing their personal histories through doing repeated serums, the numbers are very valuable as their resume builds up.

Those results do not accurately reflect the concentration of GH Serum inside the vial.....only shows the concentration of a GH Protein in the Blood Serum at the time of testing

If you want to know the MG/IU of the vial....you've gotta test the vial brutha

I realize it's hard to understand...I've done all this "Blood Work Protocol Testing" in the past....but trust me....I've got lots of Blood Work/Lab Analysis that shows different

Recent blood work:

6.9 GH Serum / 10Ius for weeks IGF1 495 (Red Tops)

Multiple Members Tested:
30-50 GH Serum / 10ius for weeks IGF1 low 400s - 5IUs for weeks IGF1 189 (Black Tops)

These are at SIMEC now....Sold as 10IU Vials....but they are underdosed

I've managed to educate the owner of GODTropin in using IGF1 as a "concentration comparison"
He no longer focuses on GH Serums
That should say something

 

[rpbb]

thanks muscle and prof. I think what you are both doing is great

Prof, what did godtropin say when convincing him about igf testing as the concentration formula. ie, was he going to talk to his supplier, etc etc

and hypothetically (probably a stupid question), if the sources do discover that their concentrations are off (by doing their own mass spec testing!!!), would it be possible to just "overdose" the compound to bring it up to spec

 

[ProfessorX]

thanks muscle and prof. I think what you are both doing is great

Prof, what did godtropin say when convincing him about igf testing as the concentration formula. ie, was he going to talk to his supplier, etc etc

and hypothetically (probably a stupid question), if the sources do discover that their concentrations are off (by doing their own mass spec testing!!!), would it be possible to just "overdose" the compound to bring it up to spec

GODTropin was like Muscle.....GH Serums because that's what everyone is doing

But now....using an IGF1 protocol.....we can get IGF1s in the 600s, 700, 800s in a short time (7-10 days) (for the record I do not use that product)

This can "reflect" dose (5Ius - IGF1 500s (approx) tested after 8days

But still....testing the vial itself is the only way to know what's exactly in the vial

With HGH (synthetic) there's lots of other proteins that can "mimic"

 

[rpbb]

GODTropin was like Muscle.....GH Serums because that's what everyone is doing

But now....using an IGF1 protocol.....we can get IGF1s in the 600s, 700, 800s in a short time (7-10 days)

This can "reflect" dose (5Ius - IGF1 500s (approx) tested after 8days

did he have to work with the factory to get those numbers, or was he already there with his igf results

 

[ProfessorX]

did he have to work with the factory to get those numbers, or was he already there with his igf results

I don't know anything about "factories" etc

I do know the product has been inconsistent

Also, because I was able to elevate my IGF1 so high and so fast with that product.....everyone SWORE it was a PepTide additive (IGF1)

But I had the product tested (Protein Characterization) It was only GH

So again....Blood Work/Lab Analysis

I HOPE JIM AND MANDS DO MORE TESTING

 

[rpbb]

GODTropin was like Muscle.....GH Serums because that's what everyone is doing

But now....using an IGF1 protocol.....we can get IGF1s in the 600s, 700, 800s in a short time (7-10 days) (for the record I do not use that product)

This can "reflect" dose (5Ius - IGF1 500s (approx) tested after 8days

But still....testing the vial itself is the only way to know what's exactly in the vial

With HGH (synthetic) there's lots of other proteins that can "mimic"

thanks for all your help and being patient with me prof, I'm a total newbie to hgh

 

[muscle96ss]

Let me add something here. I agree 100% that the best method for testing is actual lab testing as you described and if you want to know what exactly is in your vial, then lab testing is the only accurate method. However, the drawback is that you are only testing 1 vial in time, from 1 kit, from 1 batch. In other words, you have no idea if the vials in that kit you are testing are consistent. You have no idea if the vials from kit to kit are consistent. And you have no idea whats in the next batch that surfaces a few weeks down the road. All you know is what that 1 vial contains. From an economic standpoint, its not feasible to test multiple vials, kits, and batches. So the information you have is extremely valuable for that 1 vial, but it tells you absolutely nothing more and you have to make a lot of assumptions to say that the test has meaning to anything else. You wouldn't be doing the testing in the first place if you were able to make those assumptions.

 

[rpbb]

Let me add something here. I agree 100% that the best method for testing is actual lab testing as you described and if you want to know what exactly is in your vial, then lab testing is the only accurate method. However, the drawback is that you are only testing 1 vial in time, from 1 kit, from 1 batch. In other words, you have no idea if the vials in that kit you are testing are consistent. You have no idea if the vials from kit to kit are consistent. And you have no idea whats in the next batch that surfaces a few weeks down the road. All you know is what that 1 vial contains. From an economic standpoint, its not feasible to test multiple vials, kits, and batches. So the information you have is extremely valuable for that 1 vial, but it tells you absolutely nothing more and you have to make a lot of assumptions to say that the test has meaning to anything else. You wouldn't be doing the testing in the first place if you were able to make those assumptions.

as an outside observer, I believe it's the same as testing of steroids that we do here. the lab is the foundation, and the bloodwork to monitor ongoing quality is the way to go

 

[ProfessorX]

Let me add something here. I agree 100% that the best method for testing is actual lab testing as you described and if you want to know what exactly is in your vial, then lab testing is the only accurate method. However, the drawback is that you are only testing 1 vial in time, from 1 kit, from 1 batch. In other words, you have no idea if the vials in that kit you are testing are consistent. You have no idea if the vials from kit to kit are consistent. And you have no idea whats in the next batch that surfaces a few weeks down the road. All you know is what that 1 vial contains. From an economic standpoint, its not feasible to test multiple vials, kits, and batches. So the information you have is extremely valuable for that 1 vial, but it tells you absolutely nothing more and you have to make a lot of assumptions to say that the test has meaning to anything else. You wouldn't be doing the testing in the first place if you were able to make those assumptions.

WOW....so are you saying that you think each vial in one kit is different when it comes to Generics?

So why even bother if that's the case brutha

I Use Pharma or China Pharma only

I saw a post on PM (HGHman) that mentioned that also

I tested ONE Vial in an ANGtropin kit (17.9IUs)

My IGF1 reflected that the ENTIRE kit was "overdosed"

My GH Serum (10ng/mL) did not

So again, Blood Work/Lab Analysis

We recently tested Black Tops with multiple members

IGF1s were all similar

GH Serums were not

The Vials according to the IGF1 results show underdosed
I DO NOT THINK EACH VIAL WAS DIFFERENT

 

[muscle96ss]

Those results do not accurately reflect the concentration of GH Serum inside the vial.....only shows the concentration of a GH Protein in the Blood Serum at the time of testing

If you want to know the MG/IU of the vial....you've gotta test the vial brutha

I realize it's hard to understand...I've done all this "Blood Work Protocol Testing" in the past....but trust me....I've got lots of Blood Work/Lab Analysis that shows different

Recent blood work:

6.9 GH Serum / 10Ius for weeks IGF1 495 (Red Tops)

Multiple Members Tested:
30-50 GH Serum / 10ius for weeks IGF1 low 400s - 5IUs for weeks IGF1 189 (Black Tops)

These are at SIMEC now....Sold as 10IU Vials....but they are underdosed

I've managed to educate the owner of GODTropin in using IGF1 as a "concentration comparison"
He no longer focuses on GH Serums
That should say something

Once again, you are comparing members and not making comparisons within the same individual. I don't care what member x gets in comparison to member y; there are too many individual variables that you can't control. I care about what member x gets in comparison with his whole body of work of other tests he has conducted.