Mass Spec Thread

The ms of Kevin's anavar has been posted. Can the most experienced please shed some light? Does it look legit? Has it been done properly? Do you trust it? Can someone with more experience please intepret it? Also any speculations what the 61% is?


http://m.imgur.com/a/8HVm9


Edit: just seen that @liquidrx posted the same.
 
Very interested to see the outcome on whether or not the MS is legit for Kevin's var. We might have some finality on the controversy over the mods at /r/steroidsourcetalk
 
Damn if you're willing to sell the 427 big block separately i would have been interested, but i have enough fingernail clippings of my own.
 
This is what angus said

"Yes, if the results of the test are 202mg/ml then that is the active content of the sample. I am not getting involved with any more arguments, especially on meso. I don't mind answering your questions but my days of fighting with people are over."

So from now on we know, his doctor who does the test has done the math on the concentration for us already. We can use the purity to figure out how powder is used to get that concentration though.

For oils:
Concentration/purity= total powder used in mg/ml.

For orals:
Purity*total weight of the pill. This type of test is less accurate on orals then for oils but for all intensive purposes it does what we need because with orals purity matters less, only thing that matters is the amount of active per pil.

For example the titan test p was 79mg/ml but only 29% purity which means titan used 272mg/ml to achieve that concentration. I would never shoot that and it explains the crazy pip.

In a normal situation when ms test is done lightspan is 100% correct and his method was how I was taught to analyze the test when in school. But the lab angus uses does the math for you. I wish we knew this info on the other mass specs.

Angus will not come here but anyone is more then welcome to pm him on eroids and verify this.
 
If he put 272mg/ml for 100mg/ml Test Prop, then he knew the raws were shit prior to selling them. No one would over dose that much.
 
Yea looks like assumed 50% purity. But god damn my ass hurts just thinking about that much in a ml.

@flenser yea if that was on the reports we wouldn't have had questions.

But Jesus 272mg/ml is crazy.
 
Yea looks like assumed 50% purity. But god damn my ass hurts just thinking about that much in a ml.

@flenser yea if that was on the reports we wouldn't have had questions.

But Jesus 272mg/ml is crazy.
But when I asked him Titan said he didn't over dose it by that much. Something still doesn't line up here.
 
But when I asked him Titan said he didn't over dose it by that much. Something still doesn't line up here.

I agree the GE-TM test prop was 18% purity and 85mg/ml
to get that concentration it would need nearly 5 grams per vial as opposed to 1 gram at 100%
The oil is clear and thin, I am able to draw it with a 25g pin.

Here is my problem with this, most UGL are not having their raws tested by Mass Spec.
The proof of this is the numerous "miss labeled" products or no active compound at all.
They may suspect their raws are weak but no one in his right mind would dump 5 times the normal dose, maybe double, more likely an additional 30% estimating the raw to be 75%

Test propionate is present in 100mg/ml for Myth, Lot# T547H13
sample,
• Its purity is 18%,
• The concentration is 85 mg/ml.
 
Yeah I dunno cause titan told me the same thing. I was taught to read like them lightspan explained when I was in school.

I agree it doesn't make sense but I can only go off what angus said.
 
Oh I agree. I still dunno wtf to think truthfully. I swear I still think lightspan is right though as the part about insoluble powder makes the most sense if anything.
 
Okay guys, wanted to relay this from /r/sst about the mass spec on kevin's var. A redditor sent the mass spec to somebody with more chem experience and this is what they had to say.

" Hi Bob
This is really poor, I hope you didn't pay for this. It has been run on some pretty good apparatus but by someone who doesn't really know what they're doing.

HPLC-MS is a dual analysis where the HPLC separate various components which are then put through a MS to determine identity of all the components. On the first page of your analysis it says 'direct injection' this simply means the sample in solution is injected directly into the MS so there is no HPLC separation of components first. MS itself gives a signal for a molecule when it is ionised - this is absolutely not quantitative, so one molecule can easily be far more prone to ionisation than another - the MS can actually be tuned to optimise ionisation for one species over another. So to base the purity % on the MS data alone in this way is totally inappropriate. When I say 'far more prone to ionisation' i mean potentially several thousand times.

To explain each other page. Page 2 is the total count of all ions formed during the direct injection - it is clear from this that the sample was only injected between 0.4-0.8 minutes so these peaks are meaningless, really just an indication of how much sample was present over the 2 minute collection. Page 3 is the mass spectrum obtained from a single scan at 0.572minutes. Page 4 is a comparison of the mass for the sample peak for oxandrolone against the theoretical mass spectrum which would be obtained for its molecular formula - this helps confirm the likely presence of oxandrolone but gives no purity info. Page 5 is a completely misguided calculation of the purity which is totally illogical and has no basis whatsoever.

Page 3 shows the mass spectrum and this does confirm the likely presence of oxandrolone. However, all of the other peaks would require assignment to determine if they were other species or 'adducts'. But as I have said before, some of the tiny peaks may be major contaminants which don't ionise as strongly as oxandrolone - and further there could be any number of additional things which do not ionise at all.

Page 5 calculation shows the 'total ion count' (all ions in sample as on page 2), and the 'extracted ion count' for the masses of 307 and 613. Firstly the fact that the 307 does not follow the same peak shape as the total ion count makes me suspect there was external contamination in the tubing which was flushed through at the beginning of the experiment - this obviously makes any purity determination even less reliable. On page 3 mass 613 is assigned as 2M+1, this is simple an 'adduct' in the MS caused by specifics of ionisation and it is by no means a species present in your actual sample. However the values used for the purity calculation (0.879, 2.2, 11.4) are the abundances of the 307/613 ions and the total ion count - to use these for purity calculation in so far from correct it's hard to believe. Firstly it is completely wrong to compare ions in this way, secondly 307/613 are basically the same thing and finally why have the peaks at 290,359,491,778,939 been ignored.

So to summarise this experiment doesn't prove anything other than oxandrolone might be in the sample. I say might because all it really shows is a peak at 307, this could be due to anything which has the same mass. This isn't even as unlikely as it sounds, I once analysed a pesticide and something about it didn't look quite right - looking into it further showed it was in fact a different pesticide which just by coincidence had the same molecular weight. So if the source of oxandrolone is unreliable further MS work would need to be done to confirm the structure. In addition, I go back to my original point about other substances which could be in this sample which would not show up at all in MS - both chromium and lead are used in the synthesis and if these are not properly removed (as they would be under GMP) then it could be dangerous."


We aren't sure who the tester is but looking at some of the mass specs recently posted in this thread, the summary and intro pages look exactly like belfasts' and others with only the sample info changed. Waiting on the guy who sent the test to come back, but it looks like this could have been done by angus? Don't want to make accusations and maybe those sheets are widely used templates or something, but there it is guys.
 
Someone comes out with a bad mass spec making a source look bad and unknown people come out of the woodwork to "explain" the results and give their opinion on why it can't be right. Sounds like standard operating discrediting procedure to me.
 
All the more reason we need more than one guy doing our mass specs.

Someone comes out with a bad mass spec making a source look bad and unknown people come out of the woodwork to "explain" the results and give their opinion on why it can't be right. Sounds like standard operating discrediting procedure to me.
 
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