Masteron as a growth promoter

Good to know lol
Yes bro, it's a common misconception. Predictive modeling of chemical design to target some desired biological effect is something that we cannot yet do with accuracy (loads of false positives), and was certainly not even fathomable in the 1960s & 70s. Really, the research from that era is just a testament to the process of old-fashioned tinkering and post hoc explanations of chemical modifications to testosterone. The explanations were prescient and remarkable in their accuracy. Vida's 3-dimensional model of steroid binding and structure-activity relationship was shockingly accurate, as we have since modeled and visualized as crystalline structures common AR-ligand interactions with modern sophisticated equipment and techniques, and they are just as he drew freehand 50-odd years ago.
I’m not sure what “dries out your joints” really means? I hear people using the phrase but what is the actual mechanism?
Decreased estrogen activity in synovial cells due to reduced estrogen uptake (tissue-/cell- level antiestrogenic effects).

Estrogens are antinociceptive & are naturally increased for childbirth in women. Decreased aromatase activity in synovial cells is associated with reduced IL-6 expression in the joint, which acts as both a pro- and anti- inflammatory cytokine & as a mediator of bone loss. Further, estrogen might indirectly augment IGF-I activity & thereby increase collagen content of tendon.
My understanding is that Winstrol enhances collagen synthesis but at the expense of connective tissue laxity; tendons become more brittle and prone to injury due to upregulated cross-linking. I’m sure I’ve seen a paper on this but a 10 minute search right now didn’t bring up what I was looking for. Maybe someone can chime in.
Winstrol raises another mechanism for joint pain:
enhanced hepatic C1-INH production, via direct hepatic action rather than AR action per se ⇒ ↑C1-INH & C4.
C1/C1-INH complexes are formed when C1-INH combines with and removes C1r & C1s from activated C1, and these complexes - representative of classical complement pathway activation - are associated with arthritic & rheumatological conditions.

Anyway, what you reported were increased soft tissue injuries. These could be a result simply of increased load or strain (your training intensity) because of increased strength by AAS without sufficient adaptations in soft tissues. While AAS generally do increase collagenous activity and probably net deposition, certainly in the extracellular matrix; and the tendons (bone-muscle attachment]) & ligament (bone-bone attachment), this tends to increase tendon stiffness at the muscle-tendon junction.

Repetition efforts (i.e., performing sets of exercises for > 5 repetitions) decreases tendon stiffness at the muscle-tendon junction, reducing the likelihood of catastrophic strain-induced injury.
 
Repetition efforts (i.e., performing sets of exercises for > 5 repetitions) decreases tendon stiffness at the muscle-tendon junction, reducing the likelihood of catastrophic strain-induced injury.

This is interesting. As opposed to isometric contractions? Do you have a source for this as I’d love to read more.

Training mesocycles for climbing usually make heavy use of isometric “load and hold” type exercises. I wonder whether the use of AAS in such a situation might favour lifts/reps/sets instead.
 
This is interesting. As opposed to isometric contractions? Do you have a source for this as I’d love to read more.

Training mesocycles for climbing usually make heavy use of isometric “load and hold” type exercises. I wonder whether the use of AAS in such a situation might favour lifts/reps/sets instead.
Kubo, K., Kanehisa, H., Ito, M., & Fukunaga, T. (2001). Effects of isometric training on the elasticity of human tendon structures in vivo. Journal of Applied Physiology, 91(1), 26–32. doi:10.1152/jappl.2001.91.1.26

If you can imagine what occurs in an isometric contraction, where no muscle shortening occurs and full tension is exerted (e.g., against an immovable object) versus in a concentric contraction where the muscle shortens during contraction because of pliable tendons.

Imagine, too, a stiff tendon. It does not have elasticity; rather, it is forced into two modes, either remaining static (isometric) or lengthening without pliably shortening back (eccentric).

Stiff tendons tend to, therefore, during movement of a limb or locomotion, increase force transmission from muscle to bone, causing greater muscle damage as a result of eccentric forces focused at the musculotendinous junction without being distributed through elastic structures. This is beneficial for grappling and climbing; but attaches with increased risk of strains and tears.

Both isometric training & antiestrogenic action by drostanolone ↑stiffness & ↓laxity or pliability of the tendon & ↑concentration of strain in muscle.
 
Kubo, K., Kanehisa, H., Ito, M., & Fukunaga, T. (2001). Effects of isometric training on the elasticity of human tendon structures in vivo. Journal of Applied Physiology, 91(1), 26–32. doi:10.1152/jappl.2001.91.1.26

If you can imagine what occurs in an isometric contraction, where no muscle shortening occurs and full tension is exerted (e.g., against an immovable object) versus in a concentric contraction where the muscle shortens during contraction because of pliable tendons.

Imagine, too, a stiff tendon. It does not have elasticity; rather, it is forced into two modes, either remaining static (isometric) or lengthening without pliably shortening back (eccentric).

Stiff tendons tend to, therefore, during movement of a limb or locomotion, increase force transmission from muscle to bone, causing greater muscle damage as a result of eccentric forces focused at the musculotendinous junction without being distributed through elastic structures. This is beneficial for grappling and climbing; but attaches with increased risk of strains and tears.

Both isometric training & antiestrogenic action by drostanolone ↑stiffness & ↓laxity or pliability of the tendon & ↑concentration of strain in muscle.
Tendon stiffness goes in hand with training for pure power or maximum speed correct? My understanding is that for a power athlete it is wise to have a phase or 2 of the year where training is focused on sport related muscle hypertrophy/tendon hypertrophy during which time the sport specific tendons "soften" and grow. Also I've heard that sustained moderate/high load which lengthens the tendon results in structural changes to the tendon which are healthy long term. I've been told that training which stiffens the tendons should only be used before a performance phase as training in a way which stiffens them allows for max force transfer but is also unhealthy for the tendons long term (constant stiffness all year).

Is that accurate?
 
Tendon stiffness goes in hand with training for pure power or maximum speed correct? My understanding is that for a power athlete it is wise to have a phase or 2 of the year where training is focused on sport related muscle hypertrophy/tendon hypertrophy during which time the sport specific tendons "soften" and grow. Also I've heard that sustained moderate/high load which lengthens the tendon results in structural changes to the tendon which are healthy long term. I've been told that training which stiffens the tendons should only be used before a performance phase as training in a way which stiffens them allows for max force transfer but is also unhealthy for the tendons long term (constant stiffness all year).

Is that accurate?

LOL. Someone should tell climbers this. Most of us hang from a 10-20mm edge for 5-10 seconds with as much weight hanging from a dipping belt as possible. Even the most respected coaches prescribe this.

After last year’s Masteron cycle (which really did help me with max load isometric training 5x per week), my fingers have been really stiff and crunchy.

Over the past few weeks I’ve kind of come to my own conclusion (via trial and error), that reps might be better than isometrics. It’s good to hear the opinions of people from other sports.

Incidentally estrogen plays a role in tendon laxity too.
 
Tendon stiffness goes in hand with training for pure power or maximum speed correct? My understanding is that for a power athlete it is wise to have a phase or 2 of the year where training is focused on sport related muscle hypertrophy/tendon hypertrophy during which time the sport specific tendons "soften" and grow. Also I've heard that sustained moderate/high load which lengthens the tendon results in structural changes to the tendon which are healthy long term. I've been told that training which stiffens the tendons should only be used before a performance phase as training in a way which stiffens them allows for max force transfer but is also unhealthy for the tendons long term (constant stiffness all year).

Is that accurate?
Yes, plyometrics increase tendon stiffness more than anything. Everything you say here is accurate.

The source of disagreement with OP seems due simply to the fact that the adaptation that OP is seeking is not one of power or maximum speed, but purely strength-endurance (probably for bouldering). This is not to say that, e.g., freestyle climbing or rapelling does not require tremendous power, speed, rotational and abdominal strength, etc.

Where isometric training increases tendon stiffness during ramp and ballistic contractions, plyometric training increases active muscle stiffness during fast stretching. I anticipate that as a result, isometric training of the knee, hip, and ankle extensors would result in power (F*d/t) increases (jump height) particularly when loaded (so with increased forces & time, slower; e.g., weighted jump squats) but with no reduction to, or even an increased ground contact time (strength/force adaptations), while plyometrics would increase jump height, particularly unloaded (e.g., locomotion) with a decreased ground contact time (enhancing the stretch-shortening cycle/velocity adaptations).
 
The thing is...

Its about if it can be used as a growth promoter. from old forums, people used to talk mad shit about primo saying it was useless unless it was 600mg. wtf changed?

People have different preferences on different anabolics, some people like test solo and do well off of it, some people dont like the water retention. Maybe Deca breaks one guys dick and tren doesnt, vice versa.


This was mainly supposed to be a discussion to review one of the many compounds that can be utilized in a cycle build. Masteron does have a better safety profile than some of the other anabolics.


I am contemplating running 300 test and and 800 mast for my next cycle now because of this discussion to prove a point
Hey @Rido Did you end up trying this cycle? Curious if your experiences with mast has changed your opinions since you started this thread? Thanks!
 
Hey @Rido Did you end up trying this cycle? Curious if your experiences with mast has changed your opinions since you started this thread? Thanks!
I could be wrong but there is a chance he might not be able to respond here because of the new rules for subscribers. I think they are limited to posting in the underground now and one other section but I don’t remember which one.
 
Yeah it’s brand new. Like last weekish

That’s good, I was actually waiting on his response to your question as well. Then I remembered
It’s tough because he’s started some great threads and his input is valuable
Yeah, I can understand both sides of the issue. I would share his response, but that seems like it would be no different than him responding himself.
 
I could be wrong but there is a chance he might not be able to respond here because of the new rules for subscribers. I think they are limited to posting in the underground now and one other section but I don’t remember which one.
Good rule!
Sorry for @Rido he had good posts but it is for the greater good i believe.
 
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