Maximum recommended rate of weight loss on AAS?

[fatass97]

Hi all.
I'm quite fat nowadays, looking back at old pictures when I could see my 6-pack when sucking in my gut got me sorta feeling a midlife crisis at 25.

Year 8 onwards of natty training had my strength not progressing whatsoever or even regressing, unless I stuffed my face with stupid amounts of calories, went from approx. 10-15% bf to 25-30% bf within a year. Tried to cut but within 2 weeks my strength went to shit (like 20% strength decrease across the board for S/B/D). Decided it was unsustainable to keep powerbulking to 90% bf & hop on the sauce train instead, but sorta forgot that I was/am still morbidly obese, which is probably no bueno.

Male, 5ft8" (173cm) tall, 92.1kg this morning, I'm guessing around 20-30% body fat.
Sucking in & flexing my gut while standing, in the morning before food/water, top 2 abs are clearly defined, middle 2 abs can barely be seen, bottom 2 abs have long since went the way of the dodo.
Looking to drop to around 10-15% bf and improve my cardio back to reasonable levels while losing minimal muscle. Doing some bodyweight pushups, dips & pullups to try and maintain strength since gyms are closed now.

I'm trying to figure out how much weight I can realistically lose without cannibalizing my strength gains. The ballpark figures I see on google are like 2-3lbs a week initially, which probably will be reduced the leaner I get. But I'm reasonably certain those guidelines do not factor in the usage of anabolic steroids. Now my reasoning is that since AAS boosts nitrogen retention, increases IGF-1, metabolism etc. there would be a higher threshold for reasonably achievable weight loss goals while preserving existing lean mass.

With this in mind, I would like to seek y'all experience & opinion on how much weight I should drop in a week, preferably based on past cycle results.
I have var, test & some winny (stanozolol) on hand. Saving the winny for future cycles since I'm fat as all hell and probably won't see shit from using it now anyway.

 

[rfan2020]

Great shitty backwards advice.

My stalker who I offended, I forget when, when I told a guy to cut at 2400 when you said 2500, or when I pointed out that girls don't like jay cutler bodies? take care of your mental health my friend you seem frustrated about something in life

"go eat ur yogurt n watch men tackle each other and throw a football ur so ghey skinny Twink scared to b fat"

 

[Cdave.aol]

Both of you knock it off!!

 

[fatass97]

Thanks all, think I'll just avg daily 500kcal deficit for now while doing cardio & bodyweight resistance training to maintain some semblance of performance.

 

[MFAAS]

Thanks all, think I'll just avg daily 500kcal deficit for now while doing cardio & bodyweight resistance training to maintain some semblance of performance.

There's nothing wrong with continuing to lift with weights. Usually I go for a high-rep low-intensity lifting program when cutting, but if you are a powerlifter it might benefit you to continue your training regimen in a relatively normal fashion to ensure you don't drop strength like crazy. You'd get it back quickly after restarting of course, but if you are in a deficit you wil lose weight, regardless of whether you're doing 100 reps of 10 pounds or 3 reps of 400 pounds, etc.

500 is a good place to start. As I mentioned, I like to play with it day by day, research has shown that this can provide a mental break. Do not do a cheat day where you eat whatever you want. Still follow your macros and all that, but having a day or two where you eat at maintenance has been shown to prevent metabolic adaptation to caloric deficit to some degree, so it's definietly worth considering. You could even just do a 700 calorie deficit monday through friday, then eat at maintenance on the weekend. Still eat clean, get your protein, but eat at maintenance. If I remember correctly this has been shown to be beneficial for weight loss, muscle preservation, I believe the guys on Stronger by Science have talked about it a couple times.

 

[wsmwannabe]

Right now I am down 13 lbs in 30 days. I started July 5th at 247 and roughly 16.5% BF (measured by B. So I’m not obese but certainly not lean. Today I am 233.6.

I am a high level competitive amateur strongman, and I all of my competition lifts have been increasing this entire month I have been leaning out. I don’t go easy in the gym.

Was all 13 lbs fat? Probably not, but my shirts are getting tighter in the chest and arms and I’ve been running test and NPP longer than I have been cutting so I’m sure it’s helped me keep most of my lean mass. And I sleep plenty too which is huge in not muscle.

I would imagine at your size, if you diet properly, 1-2 lbs per week should be doable and maintainable.

 

[Bork]

I'm a big fan, and I have great personal experience with keto and carb cycling diets. In my humble opinion, these lifestyle changes work better than any cycle of a "cutting" steroid for maintaining muscle mass and eviscerating visceral fat.

Steroids help you cheat, yeah. But they will never replace the most anabolic/fat burning supplement you can take: food.

If you're a "fatass" as you say, the last thing I would be worried about is gear. Let's get your body fat percentage into the teens before you think about any kind of gear. That would be my first thought.

This is probably the best advice in the thread.

 

[Bork]

Right now I am down 13 lbs in 30 days. I started July 5th at 247 and roughly 16.5% BF (measured by B. So I’m not obese but certainly not lean. Today I am 233.6.

I am a high level competitive amateur strongman, and I all of my competition lifts have been increasing this entire month I have been leaning out. I don’t go easy in the gym.

Was all 13 lbs fat? Probably not, but my shirts are getting tighter in the chest and arms and I’ve been running test and NPP longer than I have been cutting so I’m sure it’s helped me keep most of my lean mass. And I sleep plenty too which is huge in not muscle.

I would imagine at your size, if you diet properly, 1-2 lbs per week should be doable and maintainable.

I’m breaking out of my T-shirts in the arms now and can’t fit any dress shirts. It kinda sucks. Getting tighter in chest/arms, but I’m up 17lbs in a month instead of being down like you.

 

[wsmwannabe]

I’m breaking out of my T-shirts in the arms now and can’t fit any dress shirts. It kinda sucks. Getting tighter in chest/arms, but I’m up 17lbs in a month instead of being down like you.

Progress is progress. Good work

 

[rfan2020]

Right now I am down 13 lbs in 30 days. I started July 5th at 247 and roughly 16.5% BF (measured by B. So I’m not obese but certainly not lean. Today I am 233.6.

I am a high level competitive amateur strongman, and I all of my competition lifts have been increasing this entire month I have been leaning out. I don’t go easy in the gym.

Was all 13 lbs fat? Probably not, but my shirts are getting tighter in the chest and arms and I’ve been running test and NPP longer than I have been cutting so I’m sure it’s helped me keep most of my lean mass. And I sleep plenty too which is huge in not muscle.

I would imagine at your size, if you diet properly, 1-2 lbs per week should be doable and maintainable.

sounds like good progress, at your BF I doubt any was muscle loss if your on AAS. This here proves the myth "omg 1lb a week or you will loose all your muscle". id keep doing what your doing, decrease calories as needed if weight loss stalls

 

[wsmwannabe]

sounds like good progress, at your BF I doubt any was muscle loss if your on AAS. This here proves the myth "omg 1lb a week or you will loose all your muscle". id keep doing what your doing, decrease calories as needed if weight loss stalls

I have to agree. I think there are too many things that apply strictly to LEAN bodybuilders that the average person uses as an excuse to be lazy. I know this because I used to use the excuses, in fact I was probably the king of using excuses.

"you can only lose 1 lb per week without catabolizing muscle"
"cardio will kill gains"

There's others that simply aren't coming to mind right now, but I think you get the points.

 

[malfeasance]

The high protein intake would really make a difference?

There is an in depth discussion of this issue in a thread elsewhere on the board complete with actual studies in which higher protein always won out in terms of body composition, and the effects were especially so in cutting diets.

Indeed, the studies did not find the upper end of this effect.

 

[malfeasance]

Here, read every post in this thread, for and against, and then make your own decision on the optimum protein consumption for your goals.

How important is protein

Hey guys, so I've always been curious as to how important protein really is. I know when we workout it tears our muscle and protein rebuilds them bigger. But let's say u have a guy on cycle eating protein at .5g per lb of bodyweight and the same guy eating 1.5g per lb. Will he see drastically...

thinksteroids.com

 

[malfeasance]

Hi all.
I'm quite fat nowadays, looking back at old pictures when I could see my 6-pack when sucking in my gut got me sorta feeling a midlife crisis at 25.

Year 8 onwards of natty training had my strength not progressing whatsoever or even regressing, unless I stuffed my face with stupid amounts of calories, went from approx. 10-15% bf to 25-30% bf within a year. Tried to cut but within 2 weeks my strength went to shit (like 20% strength decrease across the board for S/B/D). Decided it was unsustainable to keep powerbulking to 90% bf & hop on the sauce train instead, but sorta forgot that I was/am still morbidly obese, which is probably no bueno.

Male, 5ft8" (173cm) tall, 92.1kg this morning, I'm guessing around 20-30% body fat.
Sucking in & flexing my gut while standing, in the morning before food/water, top 2 abs are clearly defined, middle 2 abs can barely be seen, bottom 2 abs have long since went the way of the dodo.
Looking to drop to around 10-15% bf and improve my cardio back to reasonable levels while losing minimal muscle. Doing some bodyweight pushups, dips & pullups to try and maintain strength since gyms are closed now.

I'm trying to figure out how much weight I can realistically lose without cannibalizing my strength gains. The ballpark figures I see on google are like 2-3lbs a week initially, which probably will be reduced the leaner I get. But I'm reasonably certain those guidelines do not factor in the usage of anabolic steroids. Now my reasoning is that since AAS boosts nitrogen retention, increases IGF-1, metabolism etc. there would be a higher threshold for reasonably achievable weight loss goals while preserving existing lean mass.

With this in mind, I would like to seek y'all experience & opinion on how much weight I should drop in a week, preferably based on past cycle results.
I have var, test & some winny (stanozolol) on hand. Saving the winny for future cycles since I'm fat as all hell and probably won't see shit from using it now anyway.

The problem with using steroids is that the concern which motivated you, high blood pressure, is going to be made worse by the introduction of steroids.

Is there a reason you cannot overcome this fear of temporarily losing strength in some compound movements? Are you a competing powerlifter or Olympic lifter with a meet coming up? If not, then take care of your concern over the blood pressure.

Getting leaner will raise your testosterone all by itself. <--- Fact.

I am not going to tell you not to do steroids, but be very aware that once you start doing them, your blood pressure will increase, not decrease, so you may be compounding your problem, not solving it.

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

I mean when I cut I lost strength and mass. I even injured my back squatting. I was on test and npp. I started the cut with some var and was recomping nicely but I needed to lose body weight for a PL competition. After that cycle finished the weight started to fall off. I was eating 3200 cal: high p low f and high c. This was my first cut though. If done again i wouldve been slower removing calories and used a dht and/or tren. Im now really starting to see why people use AIs. Its made a huge difference with weight control i feel like. Unless you have to I think a slow cut is best, like over months

 

[Bork]

Getting leaner will raise your testosterone all by itself. <--- Fact.

I am not going to tell you not to do steroids, but be very aware that once you start doing them, your blood pressure will increase, not decrease, so you may be compounding your problem, not solving it.

Facts.

OP, seriously. If you lose this fat, and you don’t need roids to do that, you will 2-3x your current test.

Do something like Keto. You don’t need PEDs to lose weight, you need a caloric deficit. Once you reduce the amount of fat in your body, your test will stop heavily aromatizing to estrogen and you’ll have higher test and better overall well-being.

 

[wsmwannabe]

Unless you have to I think a slow cut is best, like over months

I agree, I didn’t intend to say that OP should be cutting 3 lbs per week like I am. I only meant to show what’s possible without losing a ton of strength or lean mass.

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

I will say it outright: at your weight 2-3 lbs per week seems like it would too much to be sustainable. It's going to be miserable and you will lose strength, even with anabolics. Crash dieting just isn't good and usually doesn't end the way you want it to long term.

The standard recommendation in the scientific community for sustainable weight loss targets is 0.5% to 1% of body weight per week. So let's just round your weight to 200 lbs. That means you could lose up to 2 lbs per week, but 1 lb, maybe 1.5 lbs, would definitely be safer.

Check out the post I wrote about weight loss and how the body works

Faster weight loss is going to mean many things:
- more muscle loss (yes, anabolics will mitigate this, but you still will lose muscle and strength)
- it will be more difficult psychologically. Once your body realizes it's losing weight so fast, it will fight back. You're going to experience more hunger and continuing that diet is going to get harder and harder.
- You are also more likely to experience hormonal disruptions (not just test/e2, but things like cortisol, DHEA, leptin/ghrelin, insulin, all kinds of bodily systems can be impacted, etc.)

Slower weight loss will ALWAYS be more sustainable. If you are looking for long term weight loss, slow and steady wins every time. If you read my post linked above you will understand why. The body is going to FIGHT against you losing weight, and it will fight harder the more weight you lose, and it will not STOP fighting until you gain that weight back (and often times people end up gaining back even more than they started with).

Your body is a thermostat and it WANTS to be 92.1 kg. Your bones sense how much you weigh and control your hormones to make you hungrier or not. There's a very complex system at play.

The best thing you can do is this:
- Cut out processed foods. I'm not saying to go paleo or anything, but just don't even purchase the protein bars or candy or ice cream or pizzas or cereal or soda, etc. Just buy fruits, veggies, meats, and good grains. If you don't have unhealthy foods around in your house, then you won't eat them--plain and simple. You aren't gonna drive all the way to the store to go buy some crap food, you are just gonna eat what's available.
- Again, I can't stress how incredibly important it is to just STOP BUYING crappy foods. This is THE NUMBER 1 easiest way to lose weight: just don't have crappy foods around, tempting you all day.
- Cut out or limit alcohol as much as possible. If you use marijuana and it causes you to overeat, cut that out too or limit is as much as possible
- Cut out fast food and severely limit any kind of eating out at restaurants. Restaurants always give you too much food and it is packed with sodium and more fats than needed, etc. Even a salad can be deceivingly unhealthy.
- Cook on weekends and meal prep/meal plan for the week.
- Eat 1 or slightly more gram per pound of protein (2.2 grams per kg)
- Lift on your normal lifting schedule, decrease frequency or play with variables to decrease load if, as you start losing weight, you feel your recovery isn't as good as it used to be.

If you're looking to lose weight fast, start out with a 500 calorie per day deficit. That should have you losing about 1 pound per week. Note that if you are also cutting out processed and sugary/high sodium foods, you may see more weight loss due to less water retention as well.

Personally, I cycle deficit days, so some days I might have a 700 calorie deficit, then the next only 300. I always have all my deficit days on weekdays, then on weekends I eat right at maintenance. I still lose 1 lb per week, but there is a good amount of science that shows having that mental break on weekends where you eat at maintenance really helps with long term weight loss. I use MyFitnessPal to set daily calorie goals and track all this.

Add in some cardio, preferably daily or 5-6 times per week. I don't know your age, but I would suspect a 20 mins to a half hour with your heart rate around 120-135 would perfect.

As you lose weight, you can up the cardio, or alter cardio. You don't HAVE to do the treadmill/elliptical. You can do 20 mins on the elliptical in the morning, then go for a hike in the afternoon. Mix it up so you don't hate it.

Take it slow, I know you want to lose weight, but if you want to lose that weight FOREVER, you wanna take it slow. It will be the only way you can lose that weight sustainable and keep it off.

Feel free to ask more questions! Best of luck!!

What the lowest fat intake you suggest while on AAS? Ive heard fat doesnt matter as much when you are on gear. Im playing with my diet currently. I switched to chicken from beef. My fat today will be 23g. Is that too little?

 

[HB_22]

Max 0,5g fat/kg bodyweight is what I aim for when dieting. Some of my friends even go lower. But I wouldn't recommend that when natural, your hormones will very likely say good bye.

The rest is high protein, moderat carbs and slowly tappering down carbs week by week.

 

[MFAAS]

What the lowest fat intake you suggest while on AAS? Ive heard fat doesnt matter as much when you are on gear. Im playing with my diet currently. I switched to chicken from beef. My fat today will be 23g. Is that too little?

What is your total calorie intake? I would aim for 15-20% fat calorie wise. I think the lowest I have heard a bodybuilder mention during contest prep was 15% fat. 23 grams is like 5% of my caloric intake of 4000 calories total, which is too low. I know being on HRT reduces the need to keep fat as high as normal as we dont need to worry about endocrine disruption, but fat still is important for recovery and healing and helping our body to absorb various fat soluble vitamins. Omega 3s and healthy fats are also important for brain health.

 

[eery]

What the lowest fat intake you suggest while on AAS? Ive heard fat doesnt matter as much when you are on gear. Im playing with my diet currently. I switched to chicken from beef. My fat today will be 23g. Is that too little?

Depends on the timeline, i'd go as low as possible if its just for 2-4 weeks. If its over a prolonged time like more than 6 weeks, i'd suggest not going under 40-60g of quality fat sources.

Personally im a fan of cycling my fat intake with more fats on days off the gym and less on days you train. Works better when you have to eat a lot of food on training days to fuel performance and recovery and works better for my digestion as its not getting slowed down by dietary fats. Could be something like 40-50g fats on training days and 70-90g on days off for example.