My new approach to long term bodybuilding and health

[MFAAS]

Thank you for your input. I will take this into consideration moving forward

Wait in your OP are you saying your going to blast 600 MG for 8 months?? The way its written doesn't make sense to me.

If so, that's just not a good idea and definitely isn'twhat anyone would consider safe. I would say for those who are more health oriented, blast for 4 months (16 weeks) once per year, then cruise for the rest.

That study you reference looks at a ONE TIME blast of 600 MG, not a lifestyle and a lifetime of blasting for that long year after year. Personally I belive a 16 week cycle at 1g or 1.2g per week is safer than 8 months at 600 MG. I would add in some HGH to keep the bulk as lean as possible and I would also consider taking a low dose statin during my cycle to prevent lipids from rising much (or at all).

However, given your goal of 10 more lean pounds and lose some fat (currently at 14%) you should easily be able to accomplish this with just a normal 500 MG test cycle and really disciplined diet and training. You don't even need the Anavar or adrol.

You talk about long term health: well also think about long term gains. Target to add on 5 lean pounds this winter and 5 more next winter, while losing some fat/recomping over the spring and summer. An 8 month blast of test just isn't a good idea, period. Then by like 18 months from now you have already met your goal and just have to remain steady or reevaluate and set a new goal.

 

[Connor 25257]

Wait in your OP are you saying your going to blast 600 MG for 8 months?? The way its written doesn't make sense to me.

If so, that's just not a good idea and definitely isn'twhat anyone would consider safe. I would say for those who are more health oriented, blast for 4 months (16 weeks) once per year, then cruise for the rest.

That study you reference looks at a ONE TIME blast of 600 MG, not a lifestyle and a lifetime of blasting for that long year after year. Personally I belive a 16 week cycle at 1g or 1.2g per week is safer than 8 months at 600 MG. I would add in some HGH to keep the bulk as lean as possible and I would also consider taking a low dose statin during my cycle to prevent lipids from rising much (or at all).

However, given your goal of 10 more lean pounds and lose some fat (currently at 14%) you should easily be able to accomplish this with just a normal 500 MG test cycle and really disciplined diet and training. You don't even need the Anavar or adrol.

You talk about long term health: well also think about long term gains. Target to add on 5 lean pounds this winter and 5 more next winter, while losing some fat/recomping over the spring and summer. An 8 month blast of test just isn't a good idea, period. Then by like 18 months from now you have already met your goal and just have to remain steady or reevaluate and set a new goal.

Thank you for the advice. Very good word of the wise. Would you also says it’s acceptable to assume test cycles build more muscle than natty?

 

[Gbro]

But is it worth it in terms of muscle gains? If I can’t get anything out of it then I don’t see the point

I think you have a nutrition/consumption problem. A trainer/nutritionist would be a huge help for you.

 

[Bumpygooch]

Thank you for the advice. Very good word of the wise. Would you also says it’s acceptable to assume test cycles build more muscle than natty?

Instead of 8 months, do (2)4 month(16 week) blasts. Much easier on the body. Kind of what I do now in between endo visits, get labs done and if they’re ok, green light another 12-16 week blast. If longevity is the game, test/primo/GH.

 

[Connor 25257]

Instead of 8 months, do (2)4 month(16 week) blasts. Much easier on the body. Kind of what I do now in between endo visits, get labs done and if they’re ok, green light another 12-16 week blast. If longevity is the game, test/primo/GH.

Thank you. Not going to lie, I’m still young *for the most part* I’m a tight ass for the most part as well. Primo I don’t mind spending some extra on. Growth hormone is still “ehhh” I’m genuinely curious on if test itself is even better than natty. Obviously test and primo is a great combo. Of course that will produce more than what you would natty

 

[Bumpygooch]

Thank you. Not going to lie, I’m still young *for the most part* I’m a tight ass for the most part as well. Primo I don’t mind spending some extra on. Growth hormone is still “ehhh” I’m genuinely curious on if test itself is even better than natty. Obviously test and primo is a great combo. Of course that will produce more than what you would natty

Run 600mg/week prop(a lot of oil, I know)solo, report back after 4 weeks. If you think test alone and natty are in the same ballpark after that, it may be time to put down the needle.

 

[MFAAS]

Thank you for the advice. Very good word of the wise. Would you also says it’s acceptable to assume test cycles build more muscle than natty?

Yeah you for sure will build more cycling test solo for 16 week cycle than natty. Much more. Testosterone is still hugely anabolic. You don't need compounds other than test to be big and lean. The only people who really need other things are those going on stage or competing. If you aren't gonna stay on TRT though then eventually your body comp will go back to natty levels. Can't look enhanced if you're not enhanced.

In the end, I think your (@Connor 25257 ) main enemy is your diet. Which is pretty familiar to a lot of us. At some point you will have to find your sweet spot with your food consumption and being happy with how you look. Idk if you drink but if you do stop. It's just wasted calories.

Now if your goal is like 10% or under BF levels and jacked year round, then you will need decide if you want to eat more look better. Even the guys who compete don't stay that mean for very long.

Personally, I'm very happy with how I look at 12% BF and I've found that to be sustainable for me. I've got my diet tuned in right though. However, I don't eat plain chicken broccoli and rice that's justnot my kinda lifestyle. I like food and I like to cook. I track macros and always hit protein and I walk/hike a lot.

Regardless, unless you're like almost stage ready already, a simple 5-750mg test cycle will for sure have you gaining muscle. You are seriously underestimating the power of testosterone!

As far as HGH it sounds to me like the biggest benefit is to use it while bulking for recovery and to be able to keep your bulk leaner. It sounds like it prevents lipogenesis/ storage of fat to some degree, thus improving your bulk experience. I am actually thinking I may finally try it on my next bulk--but money is totally not an issue for me at all, so you gotta make the right financial decision for YOU.

 

[Pineapples4Puss]

Thank you for the advice. Very good word of the wise. Would you also says it’s acceptable to assume test cycles build more muscle than natty?

did you seriously just ask if a test cycle will build more muscle than natty?

 

[juicebro]

Thank you for the advice. Very good word of the wise. Would you also says it’s acceptable to assume test cycles build more muscle than natty?

Bro are you fucking retarded or what?

 

[Demondosage]

After I was in the gym 10+ yrs I did a body compensation test 1 year apart from another. After eating like my life depended on it, gearing up on more than off that year, and training as hard as I possibly could, I put on.....WAIT FOR IT.... 2.2 lbs of muscle mass in 1 whole year! Can we say diminishing returns? A gain of 10+ lbs of muscle mass per year is incredible if you could do it after your first few years of consistent gym time

 

[Cashton]

Personally, I got little to nothing. I agree with what you’re saying. But at the same time, you can’t up the dose forever. Just like you can’t stay on gear forever. Unless you’re planning to be in the grave early….and I’m not trying to

Honestly if you change your focus from bodybuilding to being pretty big and longevity .. there’s plenty of old timers still big as fuck and kicking around in good health..

 

[Connor 25257]

Honestly if you change your focus from bodybuilding to being pretty big and longevity .. there’s plenty of old timers still big as fuck and kicking around in good health..

That’s true. The difference is these old timers have great genetics. As do most pro bodybuilders. I doubt any of them are running things like Deca, Tren, anadrol, etc in their very late 30s and beyond tho. But who really knows

 

[Connor 25257]

After I was in the gym 10+ yrs I did a body compensation test 1 year apart from another. After eating like my life depended on it, gearing up on more than off that year, and training as hard as I possibly could, I put on.....WAIT FOR IT.... 2.2 lbs of muscle mass in 1 whole year! Can we say diminishing returns? A gain of 10+ lbs of muscle mass per year is incredible if you could do it after your first few years of consistent gym time

If you don’t mind me asking. What was your cycle that year?

 

[Regular Joe]

I think you're getting yourself worked up over nothing, Arnold held a ton of muscle into his 40s, Lou ferigno was 300 pounds at 42 doing a Mr Olympia. I think how hard guys diet and dehydrate more and more is why we're seeing more deaths.

Why are you set on cruising? If I were as young as you and worried about my health I would do a hard PCT and see what I could get my natural test up to. At 200mg you are probably still adding stress to your heart and losing size from coming off of the 600mg. If you can get your natural t above 7 or 800 I think it's better to do that then shut myself down on 200mg and only have a total t of 1200 or something, especially since you're talking about starting a family

 

[Demondosage]

I think you're getting yourself worked up over nothing, Arnold held a ton of muscle into his 40s, Lou ferigno was 300 pounds at 42 doing a Mr Olympia. I think how hard guys diet and dehydrate more and more is why we're seeing more deaths.

Why are you set on cruising? If I were as young as you and worried about my health I would do a hard PCT and see what I could get my natural test up to. At 200mg you are probably still adding stress to your heart and losing size from coming off of the 600mg. If you can get your natural t above 7 or 800 I think it's better to do that then shut myself down on 200mg and only have a total t of 1200 or something, especially since you're talking about starting a family

bingo! it's conditioning and diuretics that is killing these dudes

 

[Cashton]

I think you're getting yourself worked up over nothing, Arnold held a ton of muscle into his 40s, Lou ferigno was 300 pounds at 42 doing a Mr Olympia. I think how hard guys diet and dehydrate more and more is why we're seeing more deaths.

Why are you set on cruising? If I were as young as you and worried about my health I would do a hard PCT and see what I could get my natural test up to. At 200mg you are probably still adding stress to your heart and losing size from coming off of the 600mg. If you can get your natural t above 7 or 800 I think it's better to do that then shut myself down on 200mg and only have a total t of 1200 or something, especially since you're talking about starting a family

My thinking in this is if he’s gonna cruise for how ever many years, and come off at some point, he’s going to have a much harder time recovering anything at all the older he gets.

 

[Cashton]

That’s true. The difference is these old timers have great genetics. As do most pro bodybuilders. I doubt any of them are running things like Deca, Tren, anadrol, etc in their very late 30s and beyond tho. But who really knows

Isn’t jay in his 40s?

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

That’s true. The difference is these old timers have great genetics. As do most pro bodybuilders. I doubt any of them are running things like Deca, Tren, anadrol, etc in their very late 30s and beyond tho. But who really knows

I am still somewhat new to the area I moved to a year ago. I don't know a lot of the guys very well at the gyms I go to but I do know three of them that take tren regularly and their ages range from mid forties through their sixties. I'm sure if I got to know more lifters who felt comfortable in confiding in me that more would admit to telling me they use more than just testosterone.

 

[RoidmeDangerfield]

Actually, I did forget to mention another guy who I believe is in his early fifties who was using trenbolone. He had a heartache and it was from taking a lot of test and tren. He admitted to taking 1g of test a week along with 600mg of tren. I told him that was WAY too much for a man his age.

He's never competed either and just did it for himself. So he's never taken diuretics. Because of his heart attack his doctor keeps a close eye on him and last we chatted, he's not even allowed a therapeutic dose of testosterone. Hopefully in time that will change. I can't imagine not being on HRT for the rest of my life. I felt bad for the guy.

 

[hometeam]

Peter Bond did a pocast with Victor Black where there was a lot of discussion and debate about the best way to get results without toxicity if you absolutely need more than a low dose cycle and they talked about 3 options:
1)test/primo
2)test/deca
3)high dose test - hotly debated, but apparently some people can handle a gram or so without an ai, side effects between a half gram and gram might not be all that different

Peter was saying primo is weak and maybe not so safe long term and they kind of ambushed him with "what's safer and still effective?" Test would be the safest, if you don't need an ai, and probably the best results of the 3. Deca would give you the better results over primo. And primo arguably the most benign but weakest. The orals, even anavar due to lipid crashing, would all be poor choices for longevity reasons. Maybe fine if using female doses.

Equipoise and masteron are always in the conversation too but there's not much human data on EQ and primo is probably more potent than masteron.