Myth Buster - Prolactin Tren/Deca

If so I'm jealous and I'm jealous I didn't attend this University.

mands
Read above Mands ^^^^. I'm guessing he was not impressed with my 3 1/2in :(



We both know this guy is full of shit but I, like you, would love to see it played out. I'm waiting this amazing study done by a pharmaceutical company and university that suggests using AIs and dopamine agonists for nandrolone cycles lmao
https://www.karger.com/WebMaterial/ShowFile/13538

https://www.anabolics.com/pages/Deca-Durabolin

Here is another site with sources



This is for you princess. It was also written in pharmacom website. So if you know more than the largest UGL in the world please speak up.
 

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https://www.karger.com/WebMaterial/ShowFile/13538

https://www.anabolics.com/pages/Deca-Durabolin

Here is another site with sources



This is for you princess. It was also written in pharmacom website. So if you know more than the largest UGL in the world please speak up.
I DO NOT understand? You are posting information from a website that sells AAS and PED's. Why in the hell would you even get any type of information them from them? They are trying to sell as many products as they can to you.

Where does in these studies does it show about using AI's and dopamine agonists for Nandrolone cycles? You will never and I mean never see a study that suggest running anything for any steroid cycle.

I guess I'm missing the point you are trying to prove. You are failing miserably.

mands
 
So a kid thought he doesn't need to run a AI when it comes to Deca which he said he said he read online because it doesn't aromatize. So I suggested a source to show him that there is 2 sides of every coin. Do your due diligence. Then I got you little whistle blowers who can't even come up with what wasn't true about the statement. I'm lost on your reasonings and intent on doing such. Are you bored and need a friend? You could have just asked where I found it.. I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything because in the AAS game most of it is all here say. Fuck it arrived on the seen in 60's and 70's. Long term effects will take a lot longer to know then that. Plus everyone is effected differently and can handle them differently. Whatever makes you sleep at night I guess.. don't lose sight that a kid has an utter for a tit because he didn't take an AI and doesn't want to drop Tren because he likes hard muscles.
 
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Your little penis is apparent.. you go to an online forum and just stalk straight stupidity to feel like you accomplished something.
https://www.karger.com/WebMaterial/ShowFile/13538

https://www.anabolics.com/pages/Deca-Durabolin

Here is another site with sources



This is for you princess. It was also written in pharmacom website. So if you know more than the largest UGL in the world please speak up.

Well I'm at a complete loss bc I read your Karger link and I cannot find anywhere they speak about this topic lol. I even used the search feature to search for the terms nandrolone and prolactin. I got one hit for each word and they weren't even on the same page lmao. So unless you want to point to the specific page where these topics magically appear together your first link is not even talking about this.

The second link is to Anabolics website. I don't even need to explain why this reference is complete shit right off the bat. Not even worth wasting time to read lmao.

Thirdly, you think pharmacom knows a damn thing about pharmacology or anything about this? You're a bigger idiot than I thought. Any monkey can be taught to brew gear, doesn't mean they know jack shit about the human body.

Thanks for the laughs buddy. Keep 'em coming.
 
So a kid thought he doesn't need to run a AI when it comes to Deca which he said he said he read online because it doesn't aromatize. So I suggested a source to show him that there is 2 sides of every coin. Do your due diligence. Then I got you little whistle blowers who can't even come up with what wasn't true about the statement. I'm lost on your reasonings and intent on doing such. Are you bored and need a friend? You could have just asked where I found it.. I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything because in the AAS game most of it is all here say. Fuck it arrived on the seen in 60's and 70's. Long term effects will take a lot longer to know then that. Plus everyone is effected differently and can handle them differently. Whatever makes you sleep at night I guess.. don't lose sight that a kid has an utter for a tit because he didn't take an AI and doesn't want to drop Tren because he likes hard muscles.

So let's go back to page 13 where you claimed progesterone induced gyno and two types of gyno. There are no two types of gyno. It's all one. Progesterone can influence the production of gyno but that doesn't make it a different class of gyno. Mistake number 1.

Second mistake is saying tren can definitively cause gyno. Nothing in the literature suggest it does. Here is Dr. Scally and one of the world's foremost experts on trenbolone on your progestational bullshit claim:

I went to the trouble of writing one of the foremost experts on trenbolone. He provided with me with a wealth of information on trenbolone. I asked about trenbolone gynecomastia. Both he and I agree that it is not described in the literature. Further, any association would be worthy of publication. [Doing whatever it takes for Meso readers!]

Here are his thoughts on the interactions of trenbolone with the progesterone receptor (PR). The literature indicates that 17beta-trenbolone has a high affinity for the bovine PR (Bauer ER et al 2000); while its primary metabolites 17alpha-trenbolone and trendione do not (~1-2% of the affinity of progesterone). The ED50 (effective dose) of trenbolone to produce activity at the PR in a yeast bioassay (40nM) is approximately 10-fold higher than progesterone (4.5nM) and 57-fold higher than THG (0.7nM), a highly progestogenic AAS (Death AK et al 2004). Similarly, others have shown that trenbolone has a high ED50, with a relative potency at the PR near that of testosterone (i.e., almost non-existent) using yeast bioassays (McRobb L et al 2008). Together, these results appear to suggest that trenbolone does in fact bind to the PR, but that it requires a relatively high dose to induce biologic activity (compared with progesterone or THG for example). This would seem to agree with previous reports that trenbolone is either non-progestogenic or only weakly progestogenic (Neumann F 1976).

As a side note, I would invite you to write a Letter to the Editor of the journal Steroids, in response to our recently published report, regarding your clinical experiences with trenbolone induced gynecomastia. I believe this would be of great interest to other clinicians, especially considering the preponderance of evidence suggesting that trenbolone is only a weak progestin and only weakly estrogenic (see our review for discussion).

Braunstein GD. Aromatase and gynecomastia. Endocr Relat Cancer 1999;6:315-24.

Bauer ERS, Daxenberger A, Petri T, Sauerwein H, Meyer HHD. Characterisation of the affinity of different anabolics and synthetic hormones to the human androgen receptor, human sex hormone binding globulin and the bovine gestagen receptor. APMIS 108:838-46 (2000).

Death AK, McGrath KCY, Kazlauskas R, Handelsman DJ. Tetrahydrogestrinone Is a Potent Androgen and Progestin. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2004;89(5):2498-500.

McRobb L, Handelsman DJ, Kazlauskas R, Wilkinson S, McLeod MD, Heather AK. Structure-activity relationships of synthetic progestins in a yeast-based in vitro androgen bioassay. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2008 May;110(1-2):39-47.

Neumann F. Pharmacological and endocrinological studies on anabolic agents. Environ Qual Saf Suppl 1976(5):253-64.


Yarrow JF, McCoy SC, Borst SE. Tissue selectivity and potential clinical applications of trenbolone (17beta-hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one): A potent anabolic steroid with reduced androgenic and estrogenic activity. Steroids.

Recently, the development of selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) has been suggested as a means of combating the deleterious catabolic effects of hypogonadism, especially in skeletal muscle and bone, without inducing the undesirable androgenic effects (e.g., prostate enlargement and polycythemia) associated with testosterone administration. 17beta-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one (trenbolone; 17beta-TBOH), a synthetic analog of testosterone, may be capable of inducing SARM-like effects as it binds to androgen receptors (ARs) with approximately three times the affinity of testosterone and has been shown to augment skeletal muscle mass and bone growth and reduce adiposity in a variety of mammalian species. In addition to its direct actions through ARs, 17beta-TBOH may also exert anabolic effects by altering the action of endogenous growth factors or inhibiting the action of glucocorticoids. Compared to testosterone, 17beta-TBOH appears to induce less growth in androgen-sensitive organs which highly express the 5alpha reductase enzyme (e.g., prostate tissue and accessory sex organs). The reduced androgenic effects result from the fact that 17beta-TBOH is metabolized to less potent androgens in vivo; while testosterone undergoes tissue-specific biotransformation to more potent steroids, dihydrotestosterone and 17beta-estradiol, via the 5alpha-reductase and aromatase enzymes, respectively. Thus the metabolism of 17beta-TBOH provides a basis for future research evaluating its safety and efficacy as a means of combating muscle and bone wasting conditions, obesity, and/or androgen insensitivity syndromes in humans, similar to that of other SARMs which are currently in development.
 
Fourthly you state nandrolone causes increased prolactin. Let's look at a study that gave patients nandrolone and directly measured prolactin shall we?! Great. Let's go


Clin Nephrol. 1989 Oct;32(4):198-201.
Anabolic steroid-associated hypogonadism in male hemodialysis patients.
Maeda Y1, Nakanishi T, Ozawa K, Kijima Y, Nakayama I, Shoji T, Sasaoka T.
Author information

Abstract
Hypogonadism in male hemodialysis patients has been previously reported. However, its precise pathogenesis has not yet been clarified. Mepitiostane and nandrolone decanoate are anabolic steroids prescribed for uremic anemia, and those may possibly exacerbate uremic gonadal damage. We studied the influences of these steroids on male gonadal function. Seventy-six hemodialysis patients were selected and examined for levels of luteinizing hormone (LH), follicular stimulating hormone (FSH), total testosterone, and prolactin. Twenty-three patients who received anabolic steroids showed lower testosterone values (205.2 +/- 35.6 ng/dl) than did patients without these steroids (449.7 +/- 21.3 ng/dl). Gonadotropins and prolactin showed no significant differences between the patients with and without the steroids. The testosterone values of three patients with mepitiostane increased after they stopped taking steroids. One patient suffering from complete aspermia recovered (sperm count: 0/ml to 1300 x 10(4)/ml) after discontinuation of mepitiostane and administration of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG). This clinical study suggests that some anabolic steroids play a role in uremic hypogonadism; thus mepitiostane or its analogues should be carefully prescribed for young male patients.
 
Fourthly you state nandrolone causes increased prolactin. Let's look at a study that gave patients nandrolone and directly measured prolactin shall we?! Great. Let's go


Clin Nephrol. 1989 Oct;32(4):198-201.
Anabolic steroid-associated hypogonadism in male hemodialysis patients.
Maeda Y1, Nakanishi T, Ozawa K, Kijima Y, Nakayama I, Shoji T, Sasaoka T.
Author information

Abstract
Hypogonadism in male hemodialysis patients has been previously reported. However, its precise pathogenesis has not yet been clarified. Mepitiostane and nandrolone decanoate are anabolic steroids prescribed for uremic anemia, and those may possibly exacerbate uremic gonadal damage. We studied the influences of these steroids on male gonadal function. Seventy-six hemodialysis patients were selected and examined for levels of luteinizing hormone (LH), follicular stimulating hormone (FSH), total testosterone, and prolactin. Twenty-three patients who received anabolic steroids showed lower testosterone values (205.2 +/- 35.6 ng/dl) than did patients without these steroids (449.7 +/- 21.3 ng/dl). Gonadotropins and prolactin showed no significant differences between the patients with and without the steroids. The testosterone values of three patients with mepitiostane increased after they stopped taking steroids. One patient suffering from complete aspermia recovered (sperm count: 0/ml to 1300 x 10(4)/ml) after discontinuation of mepitiostane and administration of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG). This clinical study suggests that some anabolic steroids play a role in uremic hypogonadism; thus mepitiostane or its analogues should be carefully prescribed for young male patients.


Would u say my deca was most likely test then for it to have caused this slight gyno cconsidering i was only running a trt dose of test with it?
 
Would u say my deca was most likely test then for it to have caused this slight gyno cconsidering i was only running a trt dose of test with it?

First you have to be sure it's gyno and not pseudogyno.

Deca does aromatize so it's possible it can cause gyno but this has nothing to do with progesterone or prolactin like claimed here.
 
First you have to be sure it's gyno and not pseudogyno.

Deca does aromatize so it's possible it can cause gyno but this has nothing to do with progesterone or prolactin like claimed here.

What is pseudogyno? Never heard of that. Well i developed a lump and they are very painful to the touch. Never had this until now.
 
What is pseudogyno? Never heard of that. Well i developed a lump and they are very painful to the touch. Never had this until now.

Gynecomastia is the benign proliferation of the glandular tissue in the male breast beneath the nipple (subareolar region). True gynecomastia is typically a rubbery or firm mound of tissue that is concentric with the nipple-areolar complex. This is to be distinguished from pseudogynecomastia, which lacks such a disk of tissue, as it is an increase in subareolar fat without enlargement of the breast glandular component. In about half of the cases, the process is clinically bilateral.


Gynecomastia – evaluation and current treatment options
 
https://www.karger.com/WebMaterial/ShowFile/13538

https://www.anabolics.com/pages/Deca-Durabolin

Here is another site with sources



This is for you princess. It was also written in pharmacom website. So if you know more than the largest UGL in the world please speak up.
Anabolic. Com and pharmacom? Very reliable references clown. The krager reference does not refer to any kind of nandrolone studies moron. You've only proved how stupid everyone already knows you are. Don't give advice if you are that fucking stupid
 
I DO NOT understand? You are posting information from a website that sells AAS and PED's. Why in the hell would you even get any type of information them from them? They are trying to sell as many products as they can to you.

Where does in these studies does it show about using AI's and dopamine agonists for Nandrolone cycles? You will never and I mean never see a study that suggest running anything for any steroid cycle.

I guess I'm missing the point you are trying to prove. You are failing miserably.

mands
Websites selling fake AAS no less. Lmfao
 
I have had friends try to take caber or prami for low prolactin,you know happened? Nothing! It took them 3-6 months without getting a boner or losing sensitivity in there breast. You can't take a pill to fix everything you're going through. It really doesn't matter at this point because you won't be able to fix it. All you need to do is get letro and worry about your gyno. Be lucky your dick works and stop fuckin with Tren. Never ever not take an AI.. you're estrogen prone and take 12.5 mg of Aromasin EOD. Don't worry about how you can stay on cycle because if you do you will have utters for pecs.

Due to its chemical structure nandrolone is weakly exposed to aromatase (only 20% of the aromatizing activity of testosterone). However, not estrogenic effects are its main concern: nandrolone has a potent progestogenic activity (20% of progesterone). While binding to progestogenic pituitary receptors nandrolone causes increased production of prolactin, which in effect is very similar to estradiol. To prevent these side effects prolactin inhibitors shall always be at hand when on nandrolone cycle. An aromatizing inhibitor should be used such as Aromasin or Arimdex.

Make up your mind clown. First you say caber/prami do not work. Then you suggest he use them.
 
Fourthly you state nandrolone causes increased prolactin. Let's look at a study that gave patients nandrolone and directly measured prolactin shall we?! Great. Let's go


Clin Nephrol. 1989 Oct;32(4):198-201.
Anabolic steroid-associated hypogonadism in male hemodialysis patients.
Maeda Y1, Nakanishi T, Ozawa K, Kijima Y, Nakayama I, Shoji T, Sasaoka T.
Author information

Abstract
Hypogonadism in male hemodialysis patients has been previously reported. However, its precise pathogenesis has not yet been clarified. Mepitiostane and nandrolone decanoate are anabolic steroids prescribed for uremic anemia, and those may possibly exacerbate uremic gonadal damage. We studied the influences of these steroids on male gonadal function. Seventy-six hemodialysis patients were selected and examined for levels of luteinizing hormone (LH), follicular stimulating hormone (FSH), total testosterone, and prolactin. Twenty-three patients who received anabolic steroids showed lower testosterone values (205.2 +/- 35.6 ng/dl) than did patients without these steroids (449.7 +/- 21.3 ng/dl). Gonadotropins and prolactin showed no significant differences between the patients with and without the steroids. The testosterone values of three patients with mepitiostane increased after they stopped taking steroids. One patient suffering from complete aspermia recovered (sperm count: 0/ml to 1300 x 10(4)/ml) after discontinuation of mepitiostane and administration of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG). This clinical study suggests that some anabolic steroids play a role in uremic hypogonadism; thus mepitiostane or its analogues should be carefully prescribed for young male patients.

Nice study but they did not mention dosages. I think we can both agree that the dosages for anemia are well below dosages bodybuilder's would use. Do you feel high dosages of deca or tren could lead to increased progesterone/prolactin?
 
Your reference is anabolics.com you fucking moron. Enough said
By judging your Avibyou shouldn’t be here if don’t use AAS. Can you even squat or bench 300? Stay in crossfit! 15% bf 212lbs at 6’... amazing stats
 
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Nice study but they did not mention dosages. I think we can both agree that the dosages for anemia are well below dosages bodybuilder's would use. Do you feel high dosages of deca or tren could lead to increased progesterone/prolactin?

TRT doses of test can cause high prolactin.

I would like to see strong evidence that nandrolone can raise prolactin or progesterone before guessing but I have not seen such evidence.
 
Got my labs in. I dunno how my e2 went from 20 to 129 in a month? Ive even dropped my test dose from 150mg to 100mg. Could it be a rebound from the nolva simce i dropped it or were the previous 2 tests wrong? I dont think nandrolone would of gave low e2 levels if they were high? What gives? My e2 was never this high only on my first blast of 500mg test with no ai. How could it gone to that same level on a trt dose? Could the tren give false e2 readings on this type of test? If i start arimidex do u guys think i still have a chance to fight off this gyno lump?
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There are different types of tests. I'm not a doctor so guys if I'm wrong please tell me. The way I remember it is to look for the "ultra sensitive" test. I think it is also called lc/ms/ms. I think the eclia method isn't good with tren. Don't take my word as law, search those terms for yourself. Someone with more specific knowledge will probably give some more details. Also, as I posted before, there are different things to watch, but as suggested by others, your prolactin is just fine regardless of the tren. It looks like your estrogen is high as hell, but if you didn't get the proper test who knows? I'd sure be taking an ai for breakfast at this point though. Research the different tests. I would for you if I had a few more spare minutes.
 
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