MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Nebido - Test Undecanoate 1000mg
- Thread starter sade
- Start date
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There are many more. It would be nice to hear from anyone with a new experience.
Thanks. I'm going to ask for that if I don't get Testim because I down't think Test E shots every couple of weeks will be enough to satisfy my pituitarys demand without shutting down more than half of my natural T production.
nunya.bizness
New Member
I'm tired of slathering 10 grams of Testim on my chest daily. I wish my doc would consider injections. I'm thinking I may just buy some HG Test E after my next bloodwork and administer it in normal dosages. Then when I get my next bloodwork done (and hopefully it's normal and I like it better than Testim) say AHAA I'm on injectables! Get out your Rx pad!
Edited: lost track of the topic. I'd love to see some more info on it, because it's not common here in Canada yet.
Edited: lost track of the topic. I'd love to see some more info on it, because it's not common here in Canada yet.
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nunya.bizness
New Member
Why would you want the Testim? I finally managed to get to the upper level of normal using (Dr Rx) 10 grams a day. It's a sticky mess. I was only around 600 on 7.5. I told him I felt good on 10 g, and I'd just as soon stay on that dose unless I have issues. The only thing that's been problematic is the occasional outburst of acne - but not enough to make me drop the dose down.
If you told me I could have 700 with a bi-monthly injection I'd be all over it like a dirty sock.
I want Testim because it'll provide more stable blood levels of T. The doc wants to give me 250mg Test E every 2 or 3 weeks and I think this is bad idea because at the end of week 2 I'll feel like shit again. I want my levels to be stable.
What are your baseline T levels? I thought you run T levels at the upper range of normal.
I agree the recommended TRT is poor.
Lowest is 633 and this is after staying awake for 24hrs, no idea what LH score was. Highest is 879 and my LH was at 9.3. My LH does drop down with higher T levels, though it was 13.0 in April when my T was around 750.
The question becomes what is the reason for TRT? It does not compute!
Are you planning on a seminal analysis?
It won't shut me down like other men because of my mutant androgen receptor. If I'm already producing around 800 ng/dl naturally then taking something like Testim will provide me with an extra 600 ng/dl and this will be added on the 800 I'm already producing so my levels will be around 1400 ng/dl on the Testim or Nebido.
Love the attitude. Go Scally!The truth is that, while Sade's numbers may be off, he is essentially correct. The greater the degree of insensitivity to androgens, the less the HPT suppression from T administration.
Here's an example that makes it pretty clear: http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/83/4/1173.full.pdf+html (Response to Androgen Treatment in a Patient with Partial Androgen Insensitivity and a Mutation in the Deoxyribonucleic Acid-Binding Domain of the Androgen Receptor)
This guy has partial androgen insensitivity syndrome, which is a more severe kind of androgen insensitivity than mild androgen insensitivity syndrome. He started off with LH that was around 21 IU / L, and T that was around 460 ng / dL. His doctor gave him 250 mg of T enanthate per week. Did he shut down? After being on this treatment for a solid 3.5 years, his LH came down to 9, and his T was up to around 1000. In other words, no, he didn't shut down, and yes, the supplemental T did have an additive effect.
(Didn't you cite this paper last year? Did you read it? If you're going to laugh at someone else's expense, you might want to check your facts first.)
The truth is that, while Sade's numbers may be off, he is essentially correct. The greater the degree of insensitivity to androgens, the less the HPT suppression from T administration.
Here's an example that makes it pretty clear: http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/83/4/1173.full.pdf+html (Response to Androgen Treatment in a Patient with Partial Androgen Insensitivity and a Mutation in the Deoxyribonucleic Acid-Binding Domain of the Androgen Receptor)
This guy has partial androgen insensitivity syndrome, which is a more severe kind of androgen insensitivity than mild androgen insensitivity syndrome. He started off with LH that was around 21 IU / L, and T that was around 460 ng / dL. His doctor gave him 250 mg of T enanthate per week. Did he shut down? After being on this treatment for a solid 3.5 years, his LH came down to 9, and his T was up to around 1000. In other words, no, he didn't shut down, and yes, the supplemental T did have an additive effect.
(Didn't you cite this paper last year? Did you read it? If you're going to laugh at someone else's expense, you might want to check your facts first.)
I am well familiar with the paper. You obviously did not read nor understand the paper. In the paper, the patient's HPTA is suppressed while on TE. The TE replace the endogenous production while raising the T level. They were NOT additive. The patient's endogenous T production decreased, probably significantly.
We are not discussing post TRT!
That is the question ...
Further, you FAIL to even argue the point that sade was making. It is not a question of HPTA shutdown. It is what t level he will have on TRT. It is NOT additive. This is an entirely separate concept than the paper. As an added query, what exactly will be the treatment goal? From sade's other thread - https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134308427 - androgens do not appear to be the solution. In fact, I believe sade has been on TRT. Regardless, I wish sade the best, but this TRT (250 MG Q 2-3 WEEKS) will not do a thing.
[BTW: You did NOT answer my post on your treatment! I suppose you are on Testim 5 GM and it elevated your T!]
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Here we go again. You still have a bad attitude Scally. It is this bad attitude that stops you from learning what you don't already know.
The truth is that, regardless of any injections this guy is getting, his balls are going to produce T if there is LH to stimulate T production. Despite the fact that he's getting 250 mg injections of T per week, he's still producing lots of LH, and thus he's still producing T.
Unless his balls magically know to ignore the LH because he's getting an injection of T, then they are going to do as the LH tells them to do, and will produce T.
The assays that measure the T in his blood don't distinguish between endogenous and exogenous T, they just measure T, period. Thus, his T measurements are going to include both the T that his balls made, as stimulated by his LH, as well as the T from the injection.
So I'm sorry to tell you, but you are just plain wrong.
And as far as the Kryptocur thread is concerned, it seems that you've recently adopted my viewpoint. It's odd that you would try to call it Krap and yet you are espousing it:
(Your previous opinion, from the Kryptocur thread at https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134305389
Michael Scally MD said:
Structure said:
Michael Scally MD said:
Structure said:
Michael Scally MD said:
(Your more recent opinion, from https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134307657
Michael Scally MD said:
Man, you are so full of shit, its not even funny.
Check the table again. His numbers are while ON TRT, not post TRT (rows 2 and 3 are With Rx):
Note the footnotes.
Structure:
You can try and pull together disparate threads and misquote all you wish, but I am writing this and I have NOT changed my opinion for your Kryptocur Krap. The reality that NOBODY uses this "treatment' is enough that it has no evidentary basis. And it will NOT work. Why are you misrepresenting my opinion?
Again, it is not a question of T production. The T level is NOT additive. And the HPTA will be suppressed when the level reaches higher than his set point, which will be soon after his injection. The data will prove this point.
What about your treatment? You are avoiding discussing your Testim treatment!!! I suppose this raised your T levels. How is your TRT working.
The proof will be in the results. I feel for sade since this TRT will be ineffective. And from the letter it is clear the physician feels the same.
EOM
You can try and pull together disparate threads and misquote all you wish, but I am writing this and I have NOT changed my opinion for your Kryptocur Krap. The reality that NOBODY uses this "treatment' is enough that it has no evidentary basis. And it will NOT work. Why are you misrepresenting my opinion?
Again, it is not a question of T production. The T level is NOT additive. And the HPTA will be suppressed when the level reaches higher than his set point, which will be soon after his injection. The data will prove this point.
What about your treatment? You are avoiding discussing your Testim treatment!!! I suppose this raised your T levels. How is your TRT working.
The proof will be in the results. I feel for sade since this TRT will be ineffective. And from the letter it is clear the physician feels the same.
EOM
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Check the table again. His numbers are while ON TRT, not post TRT (rows 2 and 3 are With Rx):
Note the footnotes.
Are you reading the table!
96 hours (4 days) after 250 MG TE. This is when one expects the peak or very near!!! The levels in anyone from TE 250 MG will be close to or above 1000 ng/dL. Are you trying to say that 250 MG TE is adding ONLY 600-800 ng/dL at this point (I recall a ~450 ng/dL baseline - see table.)? The LH is suppressed. It is NOT producing the same as with NO TE. It is NOT additive.
FWIW: This patient received weekly injections. sade is scheduled for every 2-3 weeks.
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Wow, I don't know what to say. An LH of 9 is an indication of HPT shutdown according to you, eh? And you imply that the body is not producing any T in response to this LH of 9?? Are you for real?
Of course he's producing T. Do you seriously dispute this? Of course he is not shut down.
How was Sade wrong in his original post? He's posted quite frequently that he intends to use a tube of Testim per day, and that he expects that this will not shut him down (and that it may not even be enough to bring his LH down to the level that he desires).
But you thought it was appropriate to laugh at him! You have no basis for doing so!
You really should check your attitude. More often than not, you are the one that ends up looking foolish.
Of course he's producing T. Do you seriously dispute this? Of course he is not shut down.
How was Sade wrong in his original post? He's posted quite frequently that he intends to use a tube of Testim per day, and that he expects that this will not shut him down (and that it may not even be enough to bring his LH down to the level that he desires).
But you thought it was appropriate to laugh at him! You have no basis for doing so!
You really should check your attitude. More often than not, you are the one that ends up looking foolish.
I did not say shutdown, I said suppression. Regardless, it is semantics. The endogenous T production will be decreased. And this is in someone with proven AIS, far more severe than you or sade (should he have it checked). You are looking the FOOL. Keep It Up.
I initially thought I would comment on your posts, but it is too overwhelming to try and keep up since half is KRAP. I will take my evidence. The members can decide for themselves.
How is the Kryptocur Krap working out!
Please, anyone, help Structure prove his Kryptocur Krap. He is looking for guinea pigs, I mean volunteers.
And, what about your Testim TRT!!! Why are you not providing any details?
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