Need help with blood results. I am NOT on TRT

[Jdoe32]

Hi
My results:
- Total T: 24.1 nmol/L [8.64 - 29];
- Free T: 7.4629 pg/mL [5.01 - 27.78];
- SHBG: 62.7 nmol/L [18.3 - 54.1] - high;
- Estradiol: 26.6 pg/mL [11.3 - 43.2];
- LH: 6.52 mIU/mL [1.7 - 8.6];
- FSH: 5.39 mIU/mL [1.5 - 12.4];
- Prolactin: 172 µUI/mL [86 - 324];
- Albumin: 4.27 g/dL [3.5 - 5.2];
- DHT: 503 pg/mL (300-850);
- DHEA: 1.68 ng/mL (1.8-12.5) - low;

Symptoms:
- low to no libido, ED, PE, depression, anxiety, no motivation, brain fog, poor concentration, feeling down.
I am NOT on TRT or any other therapy, I’ve only taken HCG for 2 months last year, and my symptoms were almost all gone.
BUT,
Doctors say my hormones are ok and the reason for my problems lies somewhere else; but they don’t know where and there’s nothing they can do.

Do you guys agree?

 

[Eddie.]

Well, i'm not a doctor but my advice is to consider starting trt, if i remember correct you're close to 40's right? From the time you tried having higher testosterone levels and you were good with that, maybe your body feels better on higher test levels (no need to go beyond top limit though).

Many doctors prescribe anti psychotics and SSRI's in cases like yours which is effing absurd. You could start with HCG monotherapy but i really don't see a point doing that, you'll still have to inject every other day and it's way more expensive than testosterone.

You could start self presribed TRT and if you realise after 6-10 months this wasn't the case or you just don't wanna do this for the rest of your life do a PCT, come back to your normal levels and search further the root of your cause.

It's not the best thing to have to pin for the rest of your life but if this is what keeps you ALIVE, motivated and feel like a normal man again, then by all means could be the best thing you could do to yourself.

 

[Jdoe32]

Well, i'm not a doctor but my advice is to consider starting trt, if i remember correct you're close to 40's right? From the time you tried having higher testosterone levels and you were good with that, maybe your body feels better on higher test levels (no need to go beyond top limit though).

Many doctors prescribe anti psychotics and SSRI's in cases like yours which is effing absurd. You could start with HCG monotherapy but i really don't see a point doing that, you'll still have to inject every other day and it's way more expensive than testosterone.

You could start self presribed TRT and if you realise after 6-10 months this wasn't the case or you just don't wanna do this for the rest of your life do a PCT, come back to your normal levels and search further the root of your cause.

It's not the best thing to have to pin for the rest of your life but if this is what keeps you ALIVE, motivated and feel like a normal man again, then by all means could be the best thing you could do to yourself.

Thank you!! Yes, I am 44 yo now. You are right, doctors did prescribed me SSRI and antipsychotics, I took them for many years (I have this symptoms from my 20’s). SSRI and therapy didn’t got me anywhere, only made me poorer. I don’t have any problem with pinning myself. My worries are others, like fertility (I know, TRT + HCG for that), or maybe the possibility of not restoring to my natural levels if I stop TRT (I’ve read of guys who never returned to normal even with a good PCT - even the doctor of a TRT clinic (BMH - UK) once told me that stopping TRT will probably not put me back to the same levels and could be worse). And at last, I’m afraid that maybe putting a band aid and ignoring the root cause, I will end worse over time. From your experience, you could say if those lab tests could justify any of my symptoms?

 

[Eddie.]

Possibly the very low free T. Free T is the most relevant to how you feel and how "anabolic" you are. Having a supraphysiological total T that floats around it won't do much by itsown if free T is bottomed, usually lowering SHBG free up some test, but even if you take proviron it's not sustainable.

DHEA also plays a role on cognition, libido, erections and penis sensitivity. Taking big amounts of just DHEA without being on TRT it might probably suppress your natural production like proviron, so this is not a solution either.

Usually those who can't comeback after pct are the ones with low test as naturals, at least from what i've read. If you want to be sure for your fertility you can freeze some sperm and in case you go to TRT and wanna have kids in the upcoming years even if you can't regain fertility you'll still have the eggs.

Take all the above with a grain of salt, i'm not an experienced PED user by any means, this is just my opinion and what i would do in your case.

 

[Jdoe32]

Possibly the very low free T. Free T is the most relevant to how you feel and how "anabolic" you are. Having a supraphysiological total T that floats around it won't do much by itsown if free T is bottomed, usually lowering SHBG free up some test, but even if you take proviron it's not sustainable.

DHEA also plays a role on cognition, libido, erections and penis sensitivity. Taking big amounts of just DHEA without being on TRT it might probably suppress your natural production like proviron, so this is not a solution either.

Usually those who can't comeback after pct are the ones with low test as naturals, at least from what i've read. If you want to be sure for your fertility you can freeze some sperm and in case you go to TRT and wanna have kids in the upcoming years even if you can't regain fertility you'll still have the eggs.

Take all the above with a grain of salt, i'm not an experienced PED user by any means, this is just my opinion and what i would do in your case.

I hear you. I also was thinking that maybe that free T could be the problem, but every Dr I’ve been with don’t agree. I don’t say that they are right, just saying that doesn’t help. I did took 25 my dhea for 1 month and I stopped, I didn’t felt nothing, sometimes I think that maybe 1 month wasn’t enough…I don’t know. At latest, i do fear about not restoring to natural levels after TRT, no matter if l’m low test natural or not. I did froze some sperm, but as you know it’s not always a succes and you can use that sperm maybe 2 times and that’s it. I don’t know what to do tbh…I feel trapped, traumatized and it’s a living hell…
Thank you for your words, mate!

 

[clearheaded]

ya try some dhea for a few months maybe some pregnalone try and loose a couple pounds, drink more water focus on getting awesome sleep and re evaluate in 6 months... stop other drugs drinking etc. alot of folks complain of brain fog who smoke weed 2-3 days a week and get hammered 2-3 times a month lol.. I mean as a teenager booze didn't give a hardcore hangover but athletic performance and speed would be noticeably down for 3-4 days(thats noticeable AND as a teenager training 5 days a week and every other weekend compete), so obv will be much worse as you get older...

ya doesn't sound like HG all ur stuff is middle of the road..

many people are dealing with brain fog after covid...

also just because hcg made you feel better doesn't mean you need it, Ritalin/meth will prob make you feel better too and loose brain fog/make you horny, doesn't mean you should take it....

more I think about it prob dont worry about DHEA, just try and eat super clean get more fibre drink more water and ~3 weeks prob will notice increase energy. obv lower or stop caffeine will prob help aswell.

 

[buck]

While lower hormone levels may be part of the problem. From your long term history that would seem to point to something else i think. You can always try TRT and see what happens.

 

[Jdoe32]

While lower hormone levels may be part of the problem. From your long term history that would seem to point to something else i think. You can always try TRT and see what happens.

You may be right, but what else could be? Maybe sexual frustration back then, from lack of libido that started the depression and evolved into this?! I did tests after tests after test. Nothing. The only thing I didn’t test are neurotransmitters and I don’t think you can measure that. I did thought about asking for drugs prescribed for Parkinson’s (I’ve read they give you libido), but I don’t think a doctor will agree too this. When I saw my low-ish free T and elevated SHBG, having a complete remission of symptoms on HCG, made me think “that’s it, finally I’ve found my problem”. I am trying to find out from experienced people if they think my levels could be a part of the problem as you said or they are healthy and doesn’t explain my symptoms, and second (and I was going to make another thread), if TRT is contra indicated when long time chronic prostatitis is present. For the last 3 years or so I developed what doctors told me is chronic non bacterial prostatitis that give me urinary issues and pain. I’ve read some studies that correlate low T with prostatitis symptoms how I have, but if my levels are healthy that isn’t it. So that’s another thing I need to find out: could be my T levels the cause behind my symptoms (are they low?) and is TRT safe on prostatitis?

 

[Jdoe32]

ya try some dhea for a few months maybe some pregnalone try and loose a couple pounds, drink more water focus on getting awesome sleep and re evaluate in 6 months... stop other drugs drinking etc. alot of folks complain of brain fog who smoke weed 2-3 days a week and get hammered 2-3 times a month lol.. I mean as a teenager booze didn't give a hardcore hangover but athletic performance and speed would be noticeably down for 3-4 days(thats noticeable AND as a teenager training 5 days a week and every other weekend compete), so obv will be much worse as you get older...

ya doesn't sound like HG all ur stuff is middle of the road..

many people are dealing with brain fog after covid...

also just because hcg made you feel better doesn't mean you need it, Ritalin/meth will prob make you feel better too and loose brain fog/make you horny, doesn't mean you should take it....

more I think about it prob dont worry about DHEA, just try and eat super clean get more fibre drink more water and ~3 weeks prob will notice increase energy. obv lower or stop caffeine will prob help aswell.

I’ve stopped dhea after 1 month, I didn’t felt anything. I don’t know if it was too soon to see any results and should’ve continue taking it more time, or was enough to draw the line. I didn’t took pregnalone, while I know I have under the limit dhea, I didn’t test pregnenolone so I don’t know if I need it or not. Nothing else to shred from my body, I’m actually fit, working out 5-6 days/week and I’m cutting atm after many months bulking. I don’t drink alcohol, I don’t smoke weed. Taking omega 3, vit D, A, E, zinc, senenium. Also this are life long symptoms, that didn’t happened after Covid. I’ve recovered from my brain fog because my depression (which came from my inability to be normal sexually - and I mean libido normal, no ED normal etc) was greatly diminished when I’ve started to be a normal man with my gf. I do eat healthy, counting macros and as much as I can eating whole foods and not processed. The only think that made me a normal human being and a normal man at the same time was HCG. I need to know if my hormone levels could be one reason for my symptoms

 

[UncleBuns]

I don't know what it is, but there's a trend nowadays to think that trt is going to solve every problem under the sun. Your numbers are in normal healthy range. You could supplement a little Dhea but that's about it. If you want to get on hormones for another reason then just do it but you don't need TRT. If you want to take testosterone you don't have to get validation from people or a "proper" excuse just save yourself the trouble and just do it, or don't, it's up to you.

SSRI's and antipsychotics are very well known for having all of the side effects that you are describing and those side effects can last for a significant period of time. It seems obvious to me that that is likely a big part of your problem. Although we don't know much about the rest of your life, your work, if you've had head injuries, your diet, etc. there's a lot of factors to a human being.

Based on the little information you provided I would suggest you supplement a little DHEA, throw all those psych med pills in the garbage, and get as far away from them as possible. Look for things in your life that are low-hanging fruit like quality sleep, balancing out your nutrition and making sure you're getting all the nutrients you need, exercise regularly including cardio, get rid of bad people in your life, get a different job if your job is f-ing your life up, etc. Just the basic stuff of cleaning house and making your world as healthy for you as you can. I would examine my life and find the real source of these problems. If you jump on testosterone, you may have a honeymoon phase where you feel better. But if the source of your issues is some other aspect of your life, testosterone isn't going to fix that.

 

[buck]

You may be right, but what else could be? Maybe sexual frustration back then, from lack of libido that started the depression and evolved into this?! I did tests after tests after test. Nothing. The only thing I didn’t test are neurotransmitters and I don’t think you can measure that. I did thought about asking for drugs prescribed for Parkinson’s (I’ve read they give you libido), but I don’t think a doctor will agree too this. When I saw my low-ish free T and elevated SHBG, having a complete remission of symptoms on HCG, made me think “that’s it, finally I’ve found my problem”. I am trying to find out from experienced people if they think my levels could be a part of the problem as you said or they are healthy and doesn’t explain my symptoms, and second (and I was going to make another thread), if TRT is contra indicated when long time chronic prostatitis is present. For the last 3 years or so I developed what doctors told me is chronic non bacterial prostatitis that give me urinary issues and pain. I’ve read some studies that correlate low T with prostatitis symptoms how I have, but if my levels are healthy that isn’t it. So that’s another thing I need to find out: could be my T levels the cause behind my symptoms (are they low?) and is TRT safe on prostatitis?

Libido as well as many other things are often as much mental and emotional as they are physical. The mental side can be tougher to figure out and is often just ignored.

 

[Jdoe32]

I don't know what it is, but there's a trend nowadays to think that trt is going to solve every problem under the sun. Your numbers are in normal healthy range. You could supplement a little Dhea but that's about it. If you want to get on hormones for another reason then just do it but you don't need TRT. If you want to take testosterone you don't have to get validation from people or a "proper" excuse just save yourself the trouble and just do it, or don't, it's up to you.

SSRI's and antipsychotics are very well known for having all of the side effects that you are describing and those side effects can last for a significant period of time. It seems obvious to me that that is likely a big part of your problem. Although we don't know much about the rest of your life, your work, if you've had head injuries, your diet, etc. there's a lot of factors to a human being.

Based on the little information you provided I would suggest you supplement a little DHEA, throw all those psych med pills in the garbage, and get as far away from them as possible. Look for things in your life that are low-hanging fruit like quality sleep, balancing out your nutrition and making sure you're getting all the nutrients you need, exercise regularly including cardio, get rid of bad people in your life, get a different job if your job is f-ing your life up, etc. Just the basic stuff of cleaning house and making your world as healthy for you as you can. I would examine my life and find the real source of these problems. If you jump on testosterone, you may have a honeymoon phase where you feel better. But if the source of your issues is some other aspect of your life, testosterone isn't going to fix that.

I know that, I know about the “trend”, but I’m not a part of it. I got off ssri and stuff for over 3 years (I know it took me a lot but I was fooled my doctors and ruined my life trusting them). Also this symptoms had me on ssri, they didn’t start AFTER taking ssri. I took dhea 1 month, I didn’t felt anything and I quit. Maybe 1 month was not enough, I don’t know. But I stopped taking it, now I take only vitamins. Working out 6 day/week,i am fit, counting macros, eating more whole meals and less processed foods. And I don’t look validation from people, I’m looking for advice and opinions that could help me to not make things worse for me. So this started 20 years ago in a very very stressful period of my life. Sexual issues started and that spiraled into depression, anxiety, brain fog, desperation , the feeling of not recognizing myself in what I’ve become, in the end. Affected my personal, professional and social life. Tried to find solutions, but every Dr I’ve been to said “yeah you are too young, go take ssri and start therapy”. And I did that for the next years without any change, actually feeling worse and ruined my life. I couldn’t keep a relationship due to my sexual issues and emotional issues. I could not be mentally focused and professionally orientated and I had to change my job as a legal consultant to a less mentally focused job. Everything I was as a man took a huge hit. I wasn’t able to have a familly or kids due to this issues. Finally, when I was 40 yo I meet my gf, who does support me and understands me to some degree, but I still have this symptoms and that’s not a life. For example, we didn’t had sex for 3 months now, from January I think. Before that, was once a week or once two weeks. My libido is trash. I could make my worm work somehow with cialis, but I don’t have the motivation to use it. No libido, no drive. This is not the way to keep and grow in a relationship. I had my sperm a mess, and while taking HCG for fertility (I hope that my gf at some point will want to have a kid with me even tho she already has 2 of her own), that was the only period in 20 years that I’ve felt like myself. I was looking into the mirror and I had that profound feeling of finding myself again, a whole man again. I had libido, no ED, as a result of this I had almost no depression, no anxiety, I had motivation to do stuff, 2 weeks feeling better made me motivated to think that maybe I could get back to legal counseling asap, I wished to be involved in stuff, taking personal projects, I had a profound feeling of normality and I was, finally, normal. So I’m not a part of a trend or looking for permissions, HCG or TRT may be the only thing that gave me my life back after I’ve lost the best years of my life due to incompetent doctors and God knows what else, because I don’t seem to find what’s wrong. And I don’t want to lose this again, after I’ve found a possible solution. I am just asking more experienced people than me if/how should I do it and not make things worse for me, that’s it. I’m looking for ideas and help into this. I was thinking that maybe my androgen receptors are fucked and I respond to elevate (but normal) levels, and that’s why I feel this way in low-ish levels..etc etc. But I’m not an expert, all I can do is ask for opinions, not permissions.
Thx for answering man! Talking helps

 

[buck]

Where are all the numbers for the thyroid.
And there is no stress in your life, you are happy.
What is your diet like write everything down. More of this less of that means nothing to me.
What is your physical activities. Write it all down and post.

 

[Jdoe32]

Libido as well as many other things are often as much mental and emotional as they are physical. The mental side can be tougher to figure out and is often just ignored.

Buck, I was on years of therapy, so much that at some point I had money issues because all I earned I was using for therapies. Were not 2-3 months, were years. Also, for sure wasn’t ignored by me at least. I was in situations after one and a half years were actually the therapist looked at me and said “this doesn’t seem to work and I don’t want to take your money for nothing, try find another therapist maybe we are not compatible and change therapy method, maybe something else will work”. This happened more than once. Maybe the numerous therapist I’ve seen in my country are all bad and I should start therapy with someone from another country, maybe out heath system si trash. But for sure I’ve tried so many things that made me very tired and willing to look into hormones, since HCG made me a normal man after all that time.

 

[Jdoe32]

Where are all the numbers for the thyroid.
And there is no stress in your life, you are happy.
What is your diet like write everything down. More of this less of that means nothing to me.
What is your physical activities. Write it all down and post.

Of course there’s stress in my life by simply having this problems and I can’t be happy living like this. I eat whole food and less processed. I work out. Atm I’m cutting, and I eat 115 G protein, 94 g fats and 148 carbs. It’s not the same every day, but you get the general ideea. Macros should not be more than 2000 calories and be approx into the same proportions. When I bulk I go 3500 cal usually. A bit more sometimes. When I crave sweet I eat fruits. Don’t drink alcohol. Changed a lot in my life over the last 3-4 years and was no much changed in what I feel. The only real benefit was starting coping with the gym, instead using ssri. That’s it. Going there and burning my frustration, some times with no motivation at all. But I need it to keep myself float. I work out 5-6 days /week, 2 muscles groups per day, just legs being one day. That’s like 1.30 h gym every day.
Thyroid:
- t3: 1.52 (1.3-3.1) nmol/L
- ft3: 5.01(3.1-6.8) pmol/L
- tsh: 1.2791 (0.5-4.5) microUi/mL (on another lab done weeks apart, this was 2.5176 (0.35-5.94))
- ft4: 13.16 (9-19) pmol/l
- atpo: 0.22 (0-5.61) UI/ml
- atg: 11.61 (0-115) UI/ml - negative

Also:
- DHEA-S: 269.4 (70-495) ug/dl
- acth: 25.6 (7.2-63.3) pg/mL
- urinary cortisol: 35 (4.3-176) ug/24h
- serum cortisol: 12 (3.7-19.4) ug/dl
- progesteron 0.1 (<0.2) mg/mL
- insulin: 4.2 (2.6-24.9) uUI/mL
- GH: <0.05 (< 3) ng/ml

PLEASE, say if I didn’t post it comprehensively enough, I would edit with more informations if I have them, I don’t really know what to post anymore

 

[buck]

Buck, I was on years of therapy, so much that at some point I had money issues because all I earned I was using for therapies. Were not 2-3 months, were years. Also, for sure wasn’t ignored by me at least. I was in situations after one and a half years were actually the therapist looked at me and said “this doesn’t seem to work and I don’t want to take your money for nothing, try find another therapist maybe we are not compatible and change therapy method, maybe something else will work”. This happened more than once. Maybe the numerous therapist I’ve seen in my country are all bad and I should start therapy with someone from another country, maybe out heath system si trash. But for sure I’ve tried so many things that made me very tired and willing to look into hormones, since HCG made me a normal man after all that time.

People can have good macros and still have poor nutrition. Or be eating foods their body doesn't like. I saw you were in therapy for years .Maybe you had the wrong therapy. Or maybe there really is no treatment available for your brain chemistry. I have had a wound from a car accident 5 years ago that i have had 3 surgeries for and it wont heal all the way and Dr.s have no clue why. I quit dealing with them after 4 years as biology is not an exact science. I just deal with the issue on my own and am getting as good of results. And from doing that my BP is 20+ points lower from not seeing Dr.s.

 

[AlexDavis43]

throw all those psych med pills in the garbage, and get as far away from them as possible

To OP: if you're considering this, please keep your doc informed of this decision.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Look for things in your life that are low-hanging fruit like quality sleep, balancing out your nutrition and making sure you're getting all the nutrients you need, exercise regularly including cardio, get rid of bad people in your life, get a different job if your job is f-ing your life up, etc. Just the basic stuff of cleaning house and making your world as healthy for you as you can. I would examine my life and find the real source of these problems. If you jump on testosterone, you may have a honeymoon phase where you feel better. But if the source of your issues is some other aspect of your life, testosterone isn't going to fix that.

^good tips in general, some easier than others. Not always easy to switch careers without major disruptions. Sleep hygiene can be a great place to start. Diet, exercise, sunlight, get outside, etc., etc.

 

[UncleBuns]

I know that, I know about the “trend”, but I’m not a part of it. I got off ssri and stuff for over 3 years (I know it took me a lot but I was fooled my doctors and ruined my life trusting them). Also this symptoms had me on ssri, they didn’t start AFTER taking ssri. I took dhea 1 month, I didn’t felt anything and I quit. Maybe 1 month was not enough, I don’t know. But I stopped taking it, now I take only vitamins. Working out 6 day/week,i am fit, counting macros, eating more whole meals and less processed foods. And I don’t look validation from people, I’m looking for advice and opinions that could help me to not make things worse for me. So this started 20 years ago in a very very stressful period of my life. Sexual issues started and that spiraled into depression, anxiety, brain fog, desperation , the feeling of not recognizing myself in what I’ve become, in the end. Affected my personal, professional and social life. Tried to find solutions, but every Dr I’ve been to said “yeah you are too young, go take ssri and start therapy”. And I did that for the next years without any change, actually feeling worse and ruined my life. I couldn’t keep a relationship due to my sexual issues and emotional issues. I could not be mentally focused and professionally orientated and I had to change my job as a legal consultant to a less mentally focused job. Everything I was as a man took a huge hit. I wasn’t able to have a familly or kids due to this issues. Finally, when I was 40 yo I meet my gf, who does support me and understands me to some degree, but I still have this symptoms and that’s not a life. For example, we didn’t had sex for 3 months now, from January I think. Before that, was once a week or once two weeks. My libido is trash. I could make my worm work somehow with cialis, but I don’t have the motivation to use it. No libido, no drive. This is not the way to keep and grow in a relationship. I had my sperm a mess, and while taking HCG for fertility (I hope that my gf at some point will want to have a kid with me even tho she already has 2 of her own), that was the only period in 20 years that I’ve felt like myself. I was looking into the mirror and I had that profound feeling of finding myself again, a whole man again. I had libido, no ED, as a result of this I had almost no depression, no anxiety, I had motivation to do stuff, 2 weeks feeling better made me motivated to think that maybe I could get back to legal counseling asap, I wished to be involved in stuff, taking personal projects, I had a profound feeling of normality and I was, finally, normal. So I’m not a part of a trend or looking for permissions, HCG or TRT may be the only thing that gave me my life back after I’ve lost the best years of my life due to incompetent doctors and God knows what else, because I don’t seem to find what’s wrong. And I don’t want to lose this again, after I’ve found a possible solution. I am just asking more experienced people than me if/how should I do it and not make things worse for me, that’s it. I’m looking for ideas and help into this. I was thinking that maybe my androgen receptors are fucked and I respond to elevate (but normal) levels, and that’s why I feel this way in low-ish levels..etc etc. But I’m not an expert, all I can do is ask for opinions, not permissions.
Thx for answering man! Talking helps

I will PM you.

 

[clearheaded]

as uncle bens said. 10000% phyc meds causing symptoms you describe, no ifs ands or buts... lower those WITH YOUR DR of course and see where you are at.

1.Placebo is very strong
2.everyone feels better on HCG and TRT. its like everyone can focus better on Ritalin, but has little to do with root cause.

also physic meds are known to decrease test/hormone levels so if can lower your dose or get off of them I bet your levels on no meds would be upper range.

LOTS of guys on antidepressants suffer from ED libido low mood cant ejaculate etc, very very common... perhaps go find a group with people on similar meds as prob better help.

crazy part is they are learning elevating serotonin has little to do with depression anyway and folks it works for is like taking opiates(targeting dopamine) to feel less pain and equally as addictive to your brain.

the good news is clearly you are able to keep your shit together and track macros, work out, eat healthy, sleep good, your unlikely to be Super depressed and more likely to bounce back once can get off the meds (with DR of course, my buddy stopped Effexor back in college and was in withdrawal for couple weeks super bad, full on panic attacks he never had before).