MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

Non Hormonal Performance Enhancement

VVV

VVV

New Member
Hi guys, say you'd want to increase performance with pharmaceuticals but you'd like to try a non hormonal approach first.
Looking at any and all drugs that might work outside of steroids.
Issues are professional and personal.
Would it make sense to try things like clen, clomid, hcg?
For someone who's never used steroids before and doesn't wish to or can't take that step yet...

Any ideas? Rich Piana said that 2500 hcg every 5 days work for a beginner, but he's talking after a low dose cycle. Would it work to boost T levels for someone in their 40's?

Thanks for any constructive feedback, and those who're about to suggest going all out or leave it, like I said I have my reasons for not going that route...at least not yet.

Thanks,
Mark
 
"The model we developed allows us to simulate arbitrary dosing schemes. The example we provide shows an informal way to obtain a maximum response while using the minimum amount of drug. The simulated testosterone levels show that to reach a target testosterone concentration of 25 nmol/liter [~720 ng/dL], a dose of 1000 IU of rhCG every other 4 days would be sufficient. A higher 2500 or 5000 IU dose would produce a slightly higher response, but the highest dose will produce a lesser response according to the model. Clearly, the predicted pattern of decreased response at high doses and the pronounced rebound effect at treatment cessation is intriguing. The extrapolation to a clinical setting certainly deserves confirmation."


Gries JM, Munafo A, Porchet HC, Verotta D. Down-regulation models and modeling of testosterone production induced by recombinant human choriogonadotropin. J Pharmacol Exp Ther 1999;289(1):371-7. http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/289/1/371.full
 
OK, ONE more question? I'm also looking into anything that might work without shutting you down. At first I thought Masteron was the answer since Proviron increases sperm count, etc. But then I found that they're not exactly the same and that Masteron will shut you down? Is that correct? How about running some hcg along side Masteron, would that prevent any shut down?
Thanks a lot again,
Mark
 
markkislich said:
OK, ONE more question? I'm also looking into anything that might work without shutting you down. At first I thought Masteron was the answer since Proviron increases sperm count, etc. But then I found that they're not exactly the same and that Masteron will shut you down? Is that correct? How about running some hcg along side Masteron, would that prevent any shut down?
Thanks a lot again,
Mark
Click to expand...

No. hCG is HPTA suppressive. The "upper" end will still be suppressed.
 
Insulin? As nutrient transport. Humilin-R is OTC but ideally u want humalog/novalog but it's RX in the states. Places u can get it tho.

Peptides and hgh as well
 
lightspan said:
True, if legality is your concern. However, most prohormones are pretty brutal on the liver. Not that traditional oral steroids are much better. Suffice to say, test is king. When you are ready, mark, test is the best. :) oh, except for tren, or so a little bird told me.
Click to expand...

I agree with you all the way. I was stuck on the PH boat forever. So glad I made the jump, now Im one of "those" guys.
 
haha i lived sdrol even tho that was def not a ph level oral lol in regards to slin its dangerous bro so be careful u can die. humulin r is my fav since it allows more nutrition partitionung for a linger period thus creating a longer anabolic phase
 
OK thanks everybody, you are really helpful and supportive. I tell you straight up why I'm hesitant to take this step:
1. In a way, it seems it's a one way street. Optimally you'll be on forever, with some short off times to detox, etc. That's my impression and what I hear say from those who use.
2. I REALLY don't want gyno
3. I don't want my tests to shrink into nothingness and then face the option of being dependent on exogenous aids all my life.
4. I work with athletes, plus I compete in an Olympic sport.

BUT, having said all that, I'm not 20 any more and the day will come when HRT makes a lot of medical sense, unless by then they have come up with something better, like a way to boost your own production back to youthful levels permanently, test, HGH, etc. Training an average of 10 sessions a week total (lifting and sports), I feel my recovery is already not what it was and injuries are catching up. That's why I'm considering this option.

Today I heard from a user that Test Propionate is a good choice since it's out of your system quickly, so you can do short cycles alternated with PCT to prevent the worst of the shutdown. Is that true?

Thanks so much guys, I really appreciate the support.

Mark
 
The only way to return to your youthful levels is through the needle.

Also, please read Llewellyn 10th edition of Anabollics to get educate on PEDs. It is 9 dollars on Kindle.
 
markkislich said:
OK thanks everybody, you are really helpful and supportive. I tell you straight up why I'm hesitant to take this step:
1. In a way, it seems it's a one way street. Optimally you'll be on forever, with some short off times to detox, etc. That's my impression and what I hear say from those who use.
2. I REALLY don't want gyno
3. I don't want my tests to shrink into nothingness and then face the option of being dependent on exogenous aids all my life.
4. I work with athletes, plus I compete in an Olympic sport.

BUT, having said all that, I'm not 20 any more and the day will come when HRT makes a lot of medical sense, unless by then they have come up with something better, like a way to boost your own production back to youthful levels permanently, test, HGH, etc. Training an average of 10 sessions a week total (lifting and sports), I feel my recovery is already not what it was and injuries are catching up. That's why I'm considering this option.

Today I heard from a user that Test Propionate is a good choice since it's out of your system quickly, so you can do short cycles alternated with PCT to prevent the worst of the shutdown. Is that true?

Thanks so much guys, I really appreciate the support.

Mark
Click to expand...

Not everybody gets the sides you mentioned. I've personally never had gyno, and my nuts are already big so Im not concerned about shrinkage. And you don't have to cycle forever. If you cycle smart and follow a good pct protocal you can keep alot of gains post cycle. There's a lot of mislead hype regarding aas.
 
Ah OK? So if I cycle real well with a good pct then I can keep some of the gains long term? Without going on gain? Just curious here...
What would be a good way to start? Masteron and hcg? Test Proprionate, then hcg?

Thanks again,
Mark
 
Cool. What would be the perfect pct for a beginner after a cycle like that? And for how long should you stay on the cycle, 4-6 weeks?
Thanks!
 
The length of usage depend of the ester and the goals.

For example, if you want strength in my opinion it is better to use longer esters and run them for longer as strength does not come easy (at least when you are at a decent level).Even on drugs the programming/periodisation should be on spot, and depending the level that you might be , this can mean that a mesocycle (for example) aiming to give you 5kg might be 2 or 3 weeks long.

If you plan on using AAS please do more research. They are powerful hormones that can (and will) fuck you up if used incorrectly.
 
Definitely I will do that, thanks!
It seems so far that testo propionate and/or masteron are amongst the best choices for this scenario...
 
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