NPP or Primo?

[GuerillaPete]

Meaning the main compound in your cycle for growing. After listening to his lecture on it, I first tried with Mast and it was awesome, much better growth than I'd experienced in the past with deca or Npp. So the next time around I decided to try primo and hands down the most effective growth cycle I'd done

A lot of people say the same as you did about Mast, and I believed it for years then finally went with John's advice. I'll definitely always utilize one of the two as my main compound in the off season.

There may be stuff on paper that would suggest otherwise, but man when you try it, it's undeniable

What dosages did you have this results at ?
And what other compounds where in the mix?

 

[Pensioner]

Meaning the main compound in your cycle for growing. After listening to his lecture on it, I first tried with Mast and it was awesome, much better growth than I'd experienced in the past with deca or Npp. So the next time around I decided to try primo and hands down the most effective growth cycle I'd done

A lot of people say the same as you did about Mast, and I believed it for years then finally went with John's advice. I'll definitely always utilize one of the two as my main compound in the off season.

There may be stuff on paper that would suggest otherwise, but man when you try it, it's undeniable

Your experience is your experience so I won’t go against your findings but how can a med with such low anabolic qualities produce such an effect? I rarely run it these days and have noticed no difference in the cycles I’ve run apart from maybe lower libido when running 19nors.

 

[2lean]

What sort of dosages were looked at in the studies? 600mg-1000mg + per week?
Any studies that examine the effects of dht on a male such as the HPTA?

1200mg/week, mean treatment duration of responders was 10.5 months. https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.w...96802)21:2<197::AID-CNCR2820210207>3.0.CO;2-R
Methenolone is a derivative of DHT, and not straight up DHT.
And it is a steroid, hopefully at this point you don’t need a study to show that it is going to down-regulate HPTA.

You mean the ones that lasted 3 months(Primo)?
Im talking about people using it with testosterone on blast and cruise for years.
Its basically the new aromatase inhibitor now for a lot of B/C guys .
Many people in the know have admitted that the long therm health effects doing this and having messed up colesterol are worrisome.
People have been cruising on deca for far longer and that also carries his bag of sides but those are more know.

Nobody is going to say blasting and cruising is healthy reguardless of compounds used lol. Question was primo vs nandrolone. We know aromatase inhibitors cause dis-lipidemia. If we are going to be running 2+ compounds, why not use them to our advantage and cut out the AI altogether.
All of these compounds cause cholesterol alterations at superphysiological doses, high dose primo is no different than high dose test or nandrolone.
With nandrolone you have to worry about possible neurodegenerative disease, I personally advise only using that on a case by case basis at a low dose.

 

[narta]

Testosterone and Nandrolone have decades of medical usage and safety data. Drostanolone was used for breast cancer and Methenolone for for anemia and are not extensively studied as much as the former.

And inherently dht based compounds are bad for lipids long term, more than test and nandrolones

 

[2lean]

And inherently dht based compounds are bad for lipids long term, more than test and nandrolones

Post up a study or something

 

[androlabs]

NPP was always more effective for me

 

[GuerillaPete]

1200mg/week, mean treatment duration of responders was 10.5 months. https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/1097-0142(196802)21:2<197::AID-CNCR2820210207>3.0.CO;2-R
Methenolone is a derivative of DHT, and not straight up DHT.
And it is a steroid, hopefully at this point you don’t need a study to show that it is going to down-regulate HPTA.

Nobody is going to say blasting and cruising is healthy reguardless of compounds used lol. Question was primo vs nandrolone. We know aromatase inhibitors cause dis-lipidemia. If we are going to be running 2+ compounds, why not use them to our advantage and cut out the AI altogether.
All of these compounds cause cholesterol alterations at superphysiological doses, high dose primo is no different than high dose test or nandrolone.
With nandrolone you have to worry about possible neurodegenerative disease, I personally advise only using that on a case by case basis at a low dose.

Yes once you mentioned it i looked into it also and as stated cholesterol was very bad.
Can you back up your claim that nandrolone is equally bad on cholesterol?
And do you have proof that methadone is not neurotoxic?
The studies i have seen nandrolone is less harmful on cholesterol and have not seen studies on methenolone and neurotoxicity but using it i have noticed a rise in aggression and restlessness.
Most of your claims are on women and cancer so that does not include potential effects on prostate and the brain as i said this things will be revealed in 5-10 years as primo is gaining popularity.
No i don't agree on using primo as an ai because then cholesterol and the nervous system never get a chance to go back to normal.
I say use it like any other compound get the benefits and cycle off and cruise on test only .

 

[2lean]

No i don't agree on using primo as an ai because then cholesterol and the nervous system never get a chance to go back to normal.
I say use it like any other compound get the benefits and cycle off and cruise on test only .

I didn’t say to use it as an AI. If you run it right you won’t need an AI. Wording matters lol.
If your estrogen is in range while running primo and test, why would test, NPP plus a AI be any better?

 

[MegaDaveMustang]

And do you have proof that methadone is not neurotoxic?

I got a little too excited when I read "methadone"...

Seriously though, I have yet to try Primo but it's one of those AAS that I want to give a good go, eventually.

Regarding Nandrolone in personal experience, it was always one of my favorites stacked with Test C/E, for me 1:1 ratio was good, though of course that varies from person to person. In later years I enjoyed NPP over Deca but both served me well.

 

[crtx]

Post up a study or something

there is no need to read studies.

Run the compound DHT or Nand compare your blood work on just Test.

You will be surprised to see how bad everything BUT test effects your lipids and HB, HCT scores.

 

[2lean]

there is no need to read studies.

Run the compound DHT or Nand compare your blood work on just Test.

You will be surprised to see how bad everything BUT test effects your lipids and HB, HCT scores.

Exactly, thanks for agreeing with me!

@narta had said,

And inherently dht based compounds are bad for lipids long term, more than test and nandrolones

I am still waiting for the studies showing DHT derivatives are worse on lipids than nandrolones.
Did he forget tren is a nandrolone lol.
I think this thought is coming from guys on prep running mast and orals on top of tren and then forget about everything else they were running when asked about NPP vs primo in the off-season.

 

[narta]

Exactly, thanks for agreeing with me!

@narta had said,

I am still waiting for the studies showing DHT derivatives are worse on lipids than nandrolones.
Did he forget tren is a nandrolone lol.
I think this thought is coming from guys on prep running mast and orals on top of tren and then forget about everything else they were running when asked about NPP vs primo in the off-season.

Ah the "post me the studies" guy. Well you see, the medical community does not conduct studies on mega dosages on male subjects for prolonged times, but you can read blood work on forums like this one. Every single time you see guys using primo and mast on high enough dosages complaining about worsening lipids. If that is not proof enough, I can't help you.

Btw, tren is not a Nandrolone, it'd a nandrolone derivative. And it's a drug used in cows not humans.

 

[29trt]

I think choosing between one or the other is not the optimal approach as either will have sides at high dosages, the best approach I believe is to use both on top of test, but scale the dosages down so you get the same AAS load as running just test+npp or test+primo.

 

[GuerillaPete]

Exactly, thanks for agreeing with me!

@narta had said,

I am still waiting for the studies showing DHT derivatives are worse on lipids than nandrolones.
Did he forget tren is a nandrolone lol.
I think this thought is coming from guys on prep running mast and orals on top of tren and then forget about everything else they were running when asked about NPP vs primo in the off-season.

The discusion was about primo and npp/deca yet you talk about masteron and now tren pls try and keep up with what is discussed .
Because woman handled primo in face of death hopping to live a little longer makes it healthy?
By that thought pattern chemo is good also for bodybuilders because some handle it ?
Do they still use primo for woman with breast cancer? No they use ai.
Are you sure primo is more studied than nandrolone?
You make a lot of claims you can't back up as you have not answered my questions .
I think you should just say you like primo more and that is ok i like primo also .
What i meant is that long term use for bodybuilders is getting more and more common and the long term side effects are not studied and unknown and the study you posted confirms it in part the cholesterol part because the rest of the date was not analyzed and is unknown.
Most of us have run both and they both have side effects its just a matter what poison you prefer .

 

[2lean]

The discusion was about primo and npp/deca yet you talk about masteron and now tren pls try and keep up with what is discussed .

You don’t see the relation between Primo and Mast or NPP and Tren. Two of those are DHT derivatives and two are 19-nors, but I should be the one to try and keep up lol.
I see this is a very surface level convo

Because woman handled primo in face of death hopping to live a little longer makes it healthy?
By that thought pattern chemo is good also for bodybuilders because some handle it ?

Again, nowhere did I say Primo is healthy at any dose. Somebody great once said, “pls try and keep up with what is discussed”

Primo used to be considered a great compound for off-season with minimal sides, that was hard to get your hands on. Now I guess things have changed in the bro-forum world.
Most of the world class coaches like it better than everything else as a anabolic driver in the off season.

At the end of the day, we probably agree on more than we don’t. High dose anything is negative for long term health obviously.

 

[effswithtren]

Why does it matter which is more researched, when the specifics of that research is almost completely irrelevant to the context in which it will be used?

I would actually rather the bloodwork and anecdotes of bros. At least then it’s in an a relevant population, context, and intent relative to how it’ll actually be used.

 

[All Nats McGee]

Why does it matter which is more researched, when the specifics of that research is almost completely irrelevant to the context in which it will be used?

I would actually rather the bloodwork and anecdotes of bros. At least then it’s in an a relevant population, context, and intent relative to how it’ll actually be used.

Basing it mostly off bloods isn’t great either. All AAS fuck up lipids. For myself the more out of wack my lipids go the more anabolic state I’m in.

 

[effswithtren]

Basing it mostly off bloods isn’t great either. All AAS fuck up lipids. For myself the more out of wack my lipids go the more anabolic state I’m in.

Fair and I can definitely agree with that. Any time I’m doing something really worth doing, my l numbers start to look like ass. There’s a pretty strong overall inverse correlation.

I will say my stuff tends to look a lot better on nandrolone than tren. Which like, no shit, but I prefer nand for growing so it works out well for me since I really don’t like using tren more than necessary. A little goes a long way, and that tends to run true for my lipids as well unfortunately.

 

[Hellacious]

If your goal is muscle gain, NPP. If your goal is to be pretty, Primo

 

[Toaster]

Why does it matter which is more researched, when the specifics of that research is almost completely irrelevant to the context in which it will be used?

I would actually rather the bloodwork and anecdotes of bros. At least then it’s in an a relevant population, context, and intent relative to how it’ll actually be used.

This board is full of people who try to dismiss every conversation with "show me the study bro" on things that will never be studied.

It's the steroid board equivalent of the evidence based skinny nerd who criticizes huge a bodybuilders form or exercise selection.

I'm all about studies and evidence, but like everything, it can be taken too far. Plus as you said most of them aren't on polypharmacy PED using bodybuilders.