Overthinking or too much science !!

[patriotmuscle1]

I see and read so many posts here and every where about people being scientific or analytical with everything from peds ,food and training. Just do it man. I agree there should be some science and knowledge of compounds. But I think it's ruining progress for some.
You can't copy a pros cycle or routine, it likely will not work well for you. Keep it simple. Inject your 1-3 compounds, eat your macros and lift. Do upper lower or whatever split. Do it for a year consistent and be mind blown..
I know I'll get some hate for this and it's fine. I can take some heat.. I knkw there's alot of guys here that agree.. as well.. pick a simple plan and follow it for a year .. watch how you change. Do that before you stress all this extra bs that will get you no where in my honest opinion.
Less is more. And consistency is the goal maker.. maybe a year is too long but I believe 6 months minimum.. I honestly believe majority here are not advanced enough to come close to worrying about all these scientific shit. I include myself here and I've been body building for almost 9 years now. I don't compete never plan too .. I'm addicted to this lifestyle period. I'll admit thst for sure. The gym , the struggle the peds, all of it..
Pick a simple plan with nutrition, exercise split and peds, or no peds, and do thst for 6-12 months.. I promise you will get amazing results. Less is really more here. I say less in the aspect of less bullshit or complicated nonsense.

 

[laclark89]

One of the better posts I've read lately, especially for guys in their first few years. I'm with u on this.
Im not a bb or dont ever plan too either. However I do love the life style.

I like to stick to the 70's 80's style training and diet, before all the science stuff. If it worked for arnold and those guys why would it not for us?

I'm more of a boxing mma fan, but I have watched some pro wrestling and am a fan of some of the physiques + alot of them are more open with the ped's and workouts ect. All the honest ones admit applause they did was stack 2 injectables and a oral. But u gota admit if u wana get to the next level you have to open your mind to the new ways, people are much crazier looking these days like the wrestlers say scott Steiner was the first one to probably "most likely "get a good modern bb coach because he took it to the next level. He was a Colegant wrestler and could suposibly do 80 laterals for reps. Looks like a lot more than 3 aas and old school training to me.

 

[laclark89]

I forgot to add dorian yates says the biggest problem with guys coming up these days is they change training splits too often and dont basically milk them for all they're worth before changing approaches.

 

[patriotmuscle1]

One of the better posts I've read lately, especially for guys in their first few years. I'm with u on this.
Im not a bb or dont ever plan too either. However I do love the life style.

I like to stick to the 70's 80's style training and diet, before all the science stuff. If it worked for arnold and those guys why would it not for us?

I'm more of a boxing mma fan, but I have watched some pro wrestling and am a fan of some of the physiques + alot of them are more open with the ped's and workouts ect. All the honest ones admit applause they did was stack 2 injectables and a oral. But u gota admit if u wana get to the next level you have to open your mind to the new ways, people are much crazier looking these days like the wrestlers say scott Steiner was the first one to probably "most likely "get a good modern bb coach because he took it to the next level. He was a Colegant wrestler and could suposibly do 80 laterals for reps. Looks like a lot more than 3 aas and old school training to me.

Most here aren't "next level". We are doing more harm to our gsims then good. Youtube is the worst.. yes there's tons of info but it's too much . Unessacary unless your a nick walker, Samson, had, even some of them have really simple off seasons.. it's consistently training and diet day in and day out. I just wish alit of the people would focus on consistency of diet and training over all other variables. The growth they would see will change their lives.

 

[laclark89]

Most here aren't "next level". We are doing more harm to our gsims then good. Youtube is the worst.. yes there's tons of info but it's too much . Unessacary unless your a nick walker, Samson, had, even some of them have really simple off seasons.. it's consistently training and diet day in and day out. I just wish alit of the people would focus on consistency of diet and training over all other variables. The growth they would see will change their lives.

Yea everyone thinks it can happen in 6 months- 2years. Try 10+ for us average genetic guys.

I think they averaged nick Walker's progression from when he first started and looked horrible, like a twig, he gained around 10 pounds of muscle a year, and hes elite.

 

[patriotmuscle1]

Yea everyone thinks it can happen in 6 months- 2years. Try 10+ for us average genetic guys.

I think they averaged nick Walker's progression from when he first started and looked horrible, like a twig, he gained around 10 pounds of muscle a year, and hes elite.

Exactly.. and he has great genetics and is militant woth his dedication. The majority have lost sight of this. It takes time and the gains come slower as your progress.. my first 3 to 5 years were magical lol.. now it takes complete dedication for me.to make solid progress.

 

[eery]

I agree that you need to start with the basics first before you dive into more advanced scientific stuff, but theres a time and place for digging into the nerdy details too, especially for those that live for this and its their life. But for the average joe that halfasses everything and cant stick to a plan for more than 3 months, yeah, i agree 100%


The details dont matter if you dont have the basics covered. Too many people put the cart before the horse and focus on the wrong stuff, or dont focus at all, lol.

 

[Liter O' Test]

I see and read so many posts here and every where about people being scientific or analytical with everything from peds ,food and training. Just do it man. I agree there should be some science and knowledge of compounds. But I think it's ruining progress for some.
You can't copy a pros cycle or routine, it likely will not work well for you. Keep it simple. Inject your 1-3 compounds, eat your macros and lift. Do upper lower or whatever split. Do it for a year consistent and be mind blown..
I know I'll get some hate for this and it's fine. I can take some heat.. I knkw there's alot of guys here that agree.. as well.. pick a simple plan and follow it for a year .. watch how you change. Do that before you stress all this extra bs that will get you no where in my honest opinion.
Less is more. And consistency is the goal maker.. maybe a year is too long but I believe 6 months minimum.. I honestly believe majority here are not advanced enough to come close to worrying about all these scientific shit. I include myself here and I've been body building for almost 9 years now. I don't compete never plan too .. I'm addicted to this lifestyle period. I'll admit thst for sure. The gym , the struggle the peds, all of it..
Pick a simple plan with nutrition, exercise split and peds, or no peds, and do thst for 6-12 months.. I promise you will get amazing results. Less is really more here. I say less in the aspect of less bullshit or complicated nonsense.

I agree..
all the steroid talk on social media has attracted a whole new demographic of guys that would NEVER touch gear if it weren't for it being shoved in their face by an algorithim everyday.
Plus all the content revolving around training and diet, that overcomplicate things for clicks..
Also i think some guys just straight up aren't running enough gear to get steroid-esque results for their genetics. Like 8 years ago no one was running anything under 500mg... Nowadays I see guys talking about 300mg test, 150mg eq, 20 anavar....adding up stupid milligrams like that matters..

years ago It was 100mg anadrol minimum, 500mg test minimum, 400 deca minimum, tren e 500mg.. not saying those are good doses for everyone or safe, BUT THEY WORK. If youre gonna use something, USE IT. None of this 200 calorie surplus , gain 0.25lb per week on 300mg test c and 100mg primo and 100mg masteron. We got beginners gaining like good genetic naturals , why even spend the money and mess with your hormones for that? eat alot and take enough gear to put weight on, these are STEROIDS. not super tribulus, or turkeseterone. this is the real deal stuff

There are loudmouths that go "all you need is 400mg test, 500mg is too much, i got to 230lbs shredded from 300mg a week, thats it, dont do anything above 350mg until youre 240lbs lean or else you have no work ethic"
Like we just had a guy post about starting a "cycle" of 200mg for 8 weeks...

 

[patriotmuscle1]

I agree..
all the steroid talk on social media has attracted a whole new demographic of guys that would NEVER touch gear if it weren't for it being shoved in their face by an algorithim everyday.
Plus all the content revolving around training and diet, that overcomplicate things for clicks..
Also i think some guys just straight up aren't running enough gear to get steroid-esque results for their genetics. Like 8 years ago no one was running anything under 500mg... Nowadays I see guys talking about 300mg test, 150mg eq, 20 anavar....adding up stupid milligrams like that matters..

years ago It was 100mg anadrol minimum, 500mg test minimum, 400 deca minimum, tren e 500mg.. not saying those are good doses for everyone or safe, BUT THEY WORK. If youre gonna use something, USE IT. None of this 200 calorie surplus , gain 0.25lb per week on 300mg test c and 100mg primo and 100mg masteron.

There are loudmouths that go "all you need is 400mg test, 500mg is too much, i got to 230lbs shredded from 300mg a week, thats it, dont do anything above 350mg until youre 240lbs lean or else you have no work ethic"
Like we just had a guy post about starting a "cycle" of 200mg for 8 weeks...

My first time was good Ole 500mg test e a wk.. fucking perfect cycle. Now I use lower doses but that's after taking 1-3grams for years lol.. I don't need to build as much as I'm just refining.
Never touched insulin and maybe used gh for 2 years total no higher then 6ius daily and thst lasted maybe 2 months.. the adema/carpal tunnel was too much
Take a decent dose of 1 to 3 compounds that work well for you. Meaning you get min to zero sides. Stick to diet and training, watch you transform 4 to 6 months.. do not deviate from plan.. do that for 5 years . You will have something worth talking about. It's the consistency over tike that does it. People really think they will look freaky in 1 to 2 years. I mean if you already have a great natural base and killer genetics maybe. But meso is mostly regular ppl like me who need years of this to get somewhere.

 

[AlexDavis43]

I fucked around in the gym for about the first 5 years, then did typical bodybuilding-style training (5-day split, higher volume/reps, etc) for about 10-12 years, then Westside Barbell for the last 15-16 years or so.

Also did Bryan Haycock's HST for about a year around when I was transitioning from bodybuilding to Westside.

There's a good deal of overlap between Westside and bodybuilding.

 

[DECLAN]

If you really want to know who is serious about this lifestyle, ask them if they own a rice cooker.

Of course there are those who are well off not to worry about meal prepping, but the majority of people who are serious about bodybuilding owns a rice cooker and will focus more on their diet and hitting their macros.

Most of my gains I can attribute to fixing my nutrition. You can mess up with using less gear or wrong training methods if that is even a thing, and still improve but eat like a bird and you won’t grow. Eat like a fat ass and you just end up a bloated fat ass with high blood pressure lol.

The kids who can figure out the diet and nutritional program meant for their metabolisms will improve faster than those who focus more on peds or training in my opinion.

 

[iris]

I fucked around in the gym for about the first 5 years, then did typical bodybuilding-style training (5-day split, higher volume/reps, etc) for about 10-12 years, then Westside Barbell for the last 15-16 years or so.

Also did Bryan Haycock's HST for about a year around when I was transitioning from bodybuilding to Westside.

There's a good deal of overlap between Westside and bodybuilding.

Louie Simmons was cool.
I saw a video where he was showing the seated deadlift, which I tried.
And, of course, the reverse hyper.
I only ever went to one gym that had the machine. It was made for tall people, I think, and I didn't find it great to use. But I do the movement very often, just adapting it with bands or other equipment. I like how it isolates the glutes, but without the proper machine you don't get nice stretch in the low back.

 

[laclark89]

There's a good deal of overlap between Westside and bodybuilding.

I hear that. But what's your personal idea why?

For me I guess they did add in some higher rep compound stuff and assesory work with focus on progressive overload.

I guess that's probably where most people go wrong worrying too much about pump and numbers and sets and fancy stuff excreta. When we would really have more gains if we focused on adding a few pounds to our lifts every month. I'm sure most of us are past out days of increasing 5 pounds a week I'd be happy with 5 pounds a month. Over years it adds.

If you really want to know who is serious about this lifestyle, ask them if they own a rice cooker.

Of course there are those who are well off not to worry about meal prepping, but the majority of people who are serious about bodybuilding owns a rice cooker and will focus more on their diet and hitting their macros.

Most of my gains I can attribute to fixing my nutrition. You can mess up with using less gear or wrong training methods if that is even a thing, and still improve but eat like a bird and you won’t grow. Eat like a fat ass and you just end up a bloated fat ass with high blood pressure lol.

The kids who can figure out the diet and nutritional program meant for their metabolisms will improve faster than those who focus more on peds or training in my opinion.

I hear that for sure. but I think in a kids early years like 9th grade- 19 20ish years old are better off stuffing what ever down they can and building a solid bace. But they should be doing a good amount of cardio while eating like that.

My food ball and weightlifting coaches would chew our ass if they didn't see up smashing on pb an j sandwiches between classes.

 

[DECLAN]

I hear that for sure. but I think in a kids early years like 9th grade- 19 20ish years old are better off stuffing what ever down they can and building a solid bace. But they should be doing a good amount of cardio while eating like that.

You’re right, they can get away with eating anything in sight because of their high activity levels and faster metabolism.

However, teaching them to eat the right foods early will benefit them though plus eating sugary/fatty foods will most likely translate to a poor body composition.

 

[laclark89]

Louie Simmons was cool.
I saw a video where he was showing the seated deadlift, which I tried.
And, of course, the reverse hyper.
I only ever went to one gym that had the machine. It was made for tall people, I think, and I didn't find it great to use. But I do the movement very often, just adapting it with bands or other equipment. I like how it isolates the glutes, but without the proper machine you don't get nice stretch in the low back.

I get a good strech in the lower back from just my cheap adjustable roman chair I have at home. I usto hold a 35 or 45 pound plate and do them, now I dont really find it to nessisary, I just use a 25 pounder or body weight my last exersize on a back or leg day.

I've never tryed a reverse hyper or seen 1 in person, I'd love to try one though.

You’re right, they can get away with eating anything in sight because of their high activity levels and faster metabolism.

However, teaching them to eat the right foods early will benefit them though plus eating sugary/fatty foods will most likely translate to a poor body composition.

Absolutely!

 

[AlexDavis43]

If you really want to know who is serious about this lifestyle, ask them if they own a rice cooker.

Brother I've been cooking rice in a pot for decades. 1 cup rice + 2 cups water. Add a bouillon cube. Simmer and stir every once in a while until the water is mostly gone, then turn off the heat.

Scale up and you can eat that for days.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Louie Simmons was cool.
I saw a video where he was showing the seated deadlift, which I tried.
And, of course, the reverse hyper.
I only ever went to one gym that had the machine. It was made for tall people, I think, and I didn't find it great to use. But I do the movement very often, just adapting it with bands or other equipment. I like how it isolates the glutes, but without the proper machine you don't get nice stretch in the low back.

I get a good strech in the lower back from just my cheap adjustable roman chair I have at home. I usto hold a 35 or 45 pound plate and do them, now I dont really find it to nessisary, I just use a 25 pounder or body weight my last exersize on a back or leg day.

I've never tryed a reverse hyper or seen 1 in person, I'd love to try one though.


Absolutely!

I'm glad Westside is getting some credit for pushing glute training. They were big on posterior chain, always talking about the glutes which I think is important for overall strength, mobility, flexibility when you stretch those muscles, etc., etc.

Tl;dr: Don't skip glute day.

 

[iris]

I get a good strech in the lower back from just my cheap adjustable roman chair I have at home. I usto hold a 35 or 45 pound plate and do them, now I dont really find it to nessisary, I just use a 25 pounder or body weight my last exersize on a back or leg day.

I've never tryed a reverse hyper or seen 1 in person, I'd love to try one though.

Yes, I use the roman chair, facing the other way round for the rev hypers.
I know you are into calisthenics. The type of training that Alex does with the Westside system is more strength/powerlifting, which is quite technical.
Is that how you used to train?
I remember looking at some of their conditioning bits and pieces, years ago, but even the simple ones were lethal.
They would suit people who do crossfit, I imagine. Some of it is similar to metcon stuff they do.
I haven't done that kind of stuff for a few years. I just can't imagine ever doing it again.
You have to be strong and very conditioned, to begin with, to do even their "beginner" stuff.
It would be easy for you guys, I imagine.

 

[laclark89]

I'm glad Westside is getting some credit for pushing glute training. They were big on posterior chain, always talking about the glutes which I think is important for overall strength, mobility, flexibility when you stretch those muscles, etc., etc.

Tl;dr: Don't skip glute day.

Speaking of my football days again, coaches and trainers put legs and glutes over upper body. They are looking to see some fat thighs and glutes. In 70% of the positions at least.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Yes, I use the roman chair, facing the other way round for the rev hypers.
I know you are into calisthenics. The type of training that Alex does with the Westside system is more strength/powerlifting, which is quite technical.
Is that how you used to train?
I remember looking at some of their conditioning bits and pieces, years ago, but even the simple ones were lethal.
They would suit people who do crossfit, I imagine. Some of it is similar to metcon stuff they do.
I haven't done that kind of stuff for a few years. I just can't imagine ever doing it again.
You have to be strong and very conditioned, to begin with, to do even their "beginner" stuff.
It would be easy for you guys, I imagine.

The main difference between Crossfit and Westside is heavy lifting.

Tbh I think a lot of Crossfit is for general fitness and not being a sedentary POS.

The part of the Venn diagram that doesn't overlap with Westside is heavy squat, bench, and deadlift.

Neither are bodybuilding, but both can be adapted for that purpose.