MESO-Rx Exclusive Peter Bond on blood pressure and anabolic steroids

[malfeasance]

Are there other substances that can lower or prevent the Hematocrit from increasing during a cycle? Thanks

Different activities can lower it, hobbies, like knife fighting.

 

[MindlessWork]

Different activities can lower it, hobbies, like knife fighting.

And sex too.

 

[Jbagel132]

Just checked my BP (running 400mg/week test c 400mg/week primo e) 3 times.

1st measurement: 122/56
2nd measurement: 123/71
3rd measurement: 124/70

Are these good measurements?

 

[PeterBond]

Yes.

 

[PeterBond]

The unpublished data of the HAARLEM trial I'm referring to in this article has just been published: Prospective study on blood pressure, lipid metabolism and erythrocytosis during and after androgen abuse - PubMed

Androgen abuse is associated with unfavourable changes in blood pressure, lipid metabolism and erythrocytosis. Most knowledge is based on cross-sectional studies sensitive to bias. We assessed the magnitude of these effects and their recovery in a prospective cohort study which included 100 men (≥18 years) performing an androgen cycle. Clinic visits took place before the cycle, at the end, 3 months after and 1 year after start of the cycle and included measurement of blood pressure, lipid parameters and haematocrit. During androgen use, systolic and diastolic blood pressure increased 6.87 (95% CI 4.34-9.40) and 3.17 mmHg (1.29-5.04) compared to baseline respectively. LDL cholesterol and ApoB increased 0.45 mmol/L (0.29-0.61) and 18.2 mg/dl (13.5-22.8) respectively, whereas HDL cholesterol, ApoA and Lp(a) decreased with 0.40 mmol/L (-0.45 to 0.35), 36.6 mg/dl (30.2-42.9) and 37.6% (13.9-61.3). ANGPTL3 increased 20.3% (7.38-33.2). Mean haematocrit increased 0.03 L/L (0.02-0.03). Three months after the cycle, and 1 year after the start, these parameters returned to baseline. In conclusion, androgen abuse induces small but clinically relevant adverse changes in blood pressure, lipid metabolism and erythrocytosis which are rapidly reversible after cessation. As follow-up was limited to 1 year, the impact of androgen abuse on cardiovascular disease remains uncertain.

 

[Dr JIM]

I think anybody who run AAS should run some sort of blood pressure meds

IME there is an undeniable correlation between hypertensive BP values, the duration and dosage of AAS and untoward complications many of which are cardiovascular.

 

[guimaraes.gerson]

IME there is an undeniable correlation between hypertensive BP values, the duration and dosage of AAS and untoward complications many of which are cardiovascular.

testosterone enanthate and nandrolone can increases BP?

 

[PeterBond]

testosterone enanthate and nandrolone can increases BP?

Why wouldn't they?

 

[guimaraes.gerson]

Why wouldn't they?

do they increase the pressure a lot? I thought only trenbolone

 

[Country Club Hero]

My BP always spiked at the start of any anabolics. But after about a week it would settle in for the remainder of the cycle and be good. That was early into my usage before I understood the importance of lowering it. I just took cialis for years for that purpose.

but last few years I’ve made cardio a routine priority and I shed about 20 pounds. Most of which was muscle but it had to happen. I feel much better now lighter and with the added cardio. I also donate double red cells at the blood bank every 4-6 months. I feel that helps too. I’ve always remarked at how amazing I feel in the 24 hours after donating blood. It’s significant.

 

[MR_Midas]

I re-read it again and emphasize everything new and new. Thank you for the cool material.

 

[VenomYo]

No need fo take a drug if you dont have to
I use celery seed extract/Cardio and clean eating.
BP stays solid even in cycle now
Used to need telmisartan, but dialing in E2 helps as well

Did you notice any of the other purported benefits of telmisartan use? I've read claims about boosted fat-loss and great diuretic effects aswell

 

[MR_Midas]

I'm also interested in whether it works in terms of these moments.

Did you notice any of the other purported benefits of telmisartan use? I've read claims about boosted fat-loss and great diuretic effects aswell

 

[VenomYo]

I'm also interested in whether it works in terms of these moments.

People say they stay leaner, but apparently it's also because of ppar-y stimulation and amelioration of diabetes/insulin/glucose amongst other positives I've heard mentioned and seen in studies, so not only through diuresis and excretion of water and sodium(the mechanism by which telmisartan lowers blood pressure, obviously)

All in all, I want to know if people here can generally agree that taking an ACE or ARB inhibitor is a good thing, because it helps you stay "leaner" with less water retention overall on cycle, or if they find that it doesn't help at all with no noticeable reduction in water retention or leaning out. Please chime in people, I want to know about your ACE inhibitor experiences. I'm on Eplerenone myself it is a form of ace inhibitor that inhibits aldosterone secretion, and aldosterone is in part one of the renin hormones that makes you retain sodium and water aka bloats you - And I'm enjoying Eplerenone currently, I think it helps keep water off and blood pressure down.

 

[MR_Midas]

People say they stay leaner, but apparently it's also because of ppar-y stimulation and amelioration of diabetes/insulin/glucose amongst other positives I've heard mentioned and seen in studies, so not only through diuresis and excretion of water and sodium(the mechanism by which telmisartan lowers blood pressure, obviously)

All in all, I want to know if people here can generally agree that taking an ACE or ARB inhibitor is a good thing, because it helps you stay "leaner" with less water retention overall on cycle, or if they find that it doesn't help at all with no noticeable reduction in water retention or leaning out. Please chime in people, I want to know about your ACE inhibitor experiences. I'm on Eplerenone myself it is a form of ace inhibitor that inhibits aldosterone secretion, and aldosterone is in part one of the renin hormones that makes you retain sodium and water aka bloats you - And I'm enjoying Eplerenone currently, I think it helps keep water off and blood pressure down.

So I would like to know the practical experience, members of the forum, as I saw the reviews, but the sources are not very reliable.

 

[Callmedaddy]

Not really. There are some antineoplastic agents which lower hematocrit, such as hydroxycarbamide and busulfan, but it's completely retarded to use these for AAS-induced increases.

I’m curious what are the negatives you see to using an ARB while on AAS . Have these drugs shown any long term or short term negative sides that we should consider? I was under the impression it was almost stupid not to run it on a blast considering a lot of guys will have their bp elevated during these times. Please elaborate