MESO-Rx Exclusive Peter Bond's recommendations for measuring and treating high blood pressure

[Millard]

Part 2 of Peter Bond's series on blood pressure is online now.

@PeterBond: "Having an increased blood pressure for a transient period of time isn’t particularly so problematic, however, a lot of anabolic steroid users tend to use anabolic steroids for years. Then it’s a different story. In this article I will lay out how you can monitor your blood pressure, when it’s wise to start treating it, and how you can potentially treat it."

Measuring and Treating High Blood Pressure in Anabolic Steroid Users

In my previous article I discussed how there’s an increased mortality and morbidity risk when systolic blood pressure increases beyond 115 mmHg and

thinksteroids.com

 

[OmL]

Blood pressure baffles me. I’m typically 115/60. And no one has any real information about the ‘60’ when I’m told it should be closer to 80.

 

[PeterBond]

Blood pressure baffles me. I’m typically 115/60. And no one has any real information about the ‘60’ when I’m told it should be closer to 80.

High pulse pressure (the difference between systolic and diastolic pressure) can be an independent risk factor in older people. However, in the young (say, younger than 40 to 50 years of age) it appears to have little, if any, value. Especially in the context of your otherwise optimal values it's perfectly fine.

 

[Theworm]

High pulse pressure (the difference between systolic and diastolic pressure) can be an independent risk factor in older people. However, in the young (say, younger than 40 to 50 years of age) it appears to have little, if any, value. Especially in the context of your otherwise optimal values it's perfectly fine.

What steroids or cycles have you found to have the least impact on blood pressure? (My thought is basically test and primo)

 

[PeterBond]

What steroids or cycles have you found to have the least impact on blood pressure? (My thought is basically test and primo)

I could speculate about it, but to be fair, I haven't been able to find one AAS having a larger impact on it than another in general.

 

[malfeasance]

Thanks for the article. It was ironic that I think I have already read most of the footnoted sources. Too much Googling for my own good, I guess.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

What steroids or cycles have you found to have the least impact on blood pressure? (My thought is basically test and primo)

Aside from maybe a few orals, I think the BP effects are largely the same acutely and chronically more related to 1. Overall health and genetic predisposition and 2. Your size

I’ve used near everything (within reason) and didn’t see BP issues at all until I crossed into the 215-220lb range at 5’6. Got lean for a show again (197ish) and BP and other stuff got better.

Take that however you like, am no BP SME.

 

[Test_Subject]

I could speculate about it, but to be fair, I haven't been able to find one AAS having a larger impact on it than another in general.

Anecdotally, superdrol and tren, for me.

Both of them jack my BP up in a gnarly way.

 

[Theworm]

Orals for sure but I found deca increases mine a little more than usual, maybe by its increase in hct...

 

[Pantera]

Thank you for the article, @PeterBond.

Quick question. You write:

However, a recent systematic review and meta-analysis found that, in primary prevention, lowering blood pressure only reduces mortality and cardiovascular disease risk if baseline systolic blood pressure is 140 mmHg or higher [6]. If it was lower than that at baseline, the authors were unable to find any benefit in regard to mortality or cardiovascular disease risk.

But then why recommend ideal blood pressure to be at 115/75 if there was no observed increase in mortality (up to 140 mmHg)? Wouldn't 130 mmHg be just as good as 115 mmHg, for example?

 

[Type-IIx]

High pulse pressure (the difference between systolic and diastolic pressure) can be an independent risk factor in older people. However, in the young (say, younger than 40 to 50 years of age) it appears to have little, if any, value. Especially in the context of your otherwise optimal values it's perfectly fine.

Thank you for the excellent article, Peter. Very informative!

Is the change in blood pressure that people often report with exogenous hGH characterized properly as increased pulse pressure?

If so, what are its mechanisms? Is it simply a matter of increased intra- and intercellular volume due to .... reasons?

 

[PeterBond]

Thank you for the excellent article, Peter. Very informative!

Is the change in blood pressure that people often report with exogenous hGH characterized properly as increased pulse pressure?

If so, what are its mechanisms? Is it simply a matter of increased intra- and intercellular volume due to .... reasons?

It's a result of the sodium retention that occurs (and thus consequently an increase in plasma volume). If I'm not mistaking there's direct action of either GH or IGF-I on the renal tubuli which promotes sodium retention, as well as indirectly through suppressing atrial natriuretic peptide and some potential insulin resistance which leads to an increase in insulin (which stimulates sodium retention too). I'm not sure if these mechanisms have been demonstrated in subjects receiving GH administration per se, but they have in acromegaly patients.

Thank you for the article, @PeterBond.

Quick question. You write:

However, a recent systematic review and meta-analysis found that, in primary prevention, lowering blood pressure only reduces mortality and cardiovascular disease risk if baseline systolic blood pressure is 140 mmHg or higher [6]. If it was lower than that at baseline, the authors were unable to find any benefit in regard to mortality or cardiovascular disease risk.

But then why recommend ideal blood pressure to be at 115/75 if there was no observed increase in mortality (up to 140 mmHg)? Wouldn't 130 mmHg be just as good as 115 mmHg, for example?

There is an increased mortality beyond 115 mmHg. The problem is that treating it doesn't appear to reduce mortality or cardiovascular disease risk, unless someone's blood pressure is already beyond 140 mmHg. The treatment target in general is to get it between 120-130 mmHg. Hence this recommendation in the article for treatment: Ideally you reach a blood pressure below or equal to 130/80 mmHg (but above 120 mmHg).

 

[Live_Evil]

What steroids or cycles have you found to have the least impact on blood pressure? (My thought is basically test and primo)

In my experience, it's mostly dose dependent, if we're speaking specifically on AAS without taking overall health/body-comp into account.

However, some steroids do seem to have a more dramatic ramping effect on BP that hits earlier. For example, anadrol and superdrol are notorious for wrecking lipid profiles as well as jacking BP through the roof, while I've done a gram of test per week and only had 133/82 BP at the time. Interestingly, I noticed an effect on my lipid profile on high doses of anavar, with seemingly no impact on my BP at all.

And of course, anyone who lets there estradiol get out of control will have high BP while using AAS, which probably accounts for many reports of high BP supposedly caused by AAS use.

 

[juicebro]

High pulse pressure (the difference between systolic and diastolic pressure) can be an independent risk factor in older people. However, in the young (say, younger than 40 to 50 years of age) it appears to have little, if any, value. Especially in the context of your otherwise optimal values it's perfectly fine.

This also concerns me. I've brought my systolic to the ideal range 110-120 but my diastolic if often below 60. I am using 80mg telmisartan and some tadalafil daily. The question is am I doing more harm by brining my diastolic so low and over treating my blood pressure or not as I've read low diastolic weakens the heart over time. I don't think it was just the older people who had a higher risk of CVD with a low diastolic number.

 

[PeterBond]

This also concerns me. I've brought my systolic to the ideal range 110-120 but my diastolic if often below 60. I am using 80mg telmisartan and some tadalafil daily. The question is am I doing more harm by brining my diastolic so low and over treating my blood pressure or not as I've read low diastolic weakens the heart over time.

Treatment target should be a systolic pressure of 120-130 mmHg. Treatment below that usually leads to more harm than benefits.

 

[Theworm]

Treatment target should be a systolic pressure of 120-130 mmHg. Treatment below that usually leads to more harm than benefits.

Any evidence of this? My cardiologist says the lower the better. He says if you get it around 100 systolic or even 90, most will live to 90 years of age...

 

[Millard]

He says if you get it around 100 systolic or even 90, most will live to 90 years of age...

Just google low blood pressure (hypotension) and mortality for sampling of relevant research.

 

[PeterBond]

Any evidence of this? My cardiologist says the lower the better. He says if you get it around 100 systolic or even 90, most will live to 90 years of age...

It's in the treatment guidelines of both the European Society of Cardiology and European Society of Hypertension:


As well as the International Society of Hypertension: