I was on clomid for over a year and I never experienced any visual disturbances.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Positive Outcome Of Clomiphene Citrate Treatment In Young Hypogonadal Men
- Thread starter Michael Scally MD
- Start date
I'll ask again what " protocol" are your referring to?
You made the assertion earlier that "the optic nerve is close to the pituitary"..,,I assume your contention was that since they are close to each other SERMs could have an indirect effect from what some have called "pituitary spillover". Yet that assertion is far fetched and also unproven because the ARE NOT CLOSE TO EACH OTHER, (especially in neuroendoctrine terms where we reference effective distances in NANOMETERS)
You made the assertion earlier that "the optic nerve is close to the pituitary"..,,I assume your contention was that since they are close to each other SERMs could have an indirect effect from what some have called "pituitary spillover". Yet that assertion is far fetched and also unproven because the ARE NOT CLOSE TO EACH OTHER, (especially in neuroendoctrine terms where we reference effective distances in NANOMETERS)
Would you mind providing more info on your clomid experience?
Did you try a a restart? How were your results and did you have any sides?
Did you test levels remain higher after you went off clomid?
Sorry for all the questions. I just started a clomid restart and was interested in your experience. Thanks.
The protocol is in reference to T replacement using injections. Adjusting dose and frequency can lower E2 wthout an AI.
If there's no evidence for "pituitary spillover" then that settles it.
It was not a restart. I was using clomid only to boost my T level. It worked for about a year, then my T level started falling. I used 25 mg every other day and sometimes every two or three days.
Thanks LW64.
It's interesting that it effectively stopped working after a year. Did you have any sides?
It continued to raise my T level, but it simply wasnt enough.
No sides.
There are others here who have used it the same way. There are also others here who have tried it and swear they will never go on it again due to emotional side effects.
Last edited:
Chp5
What are you trying to accomplish be "restarting" Clomid.
What are you trying to accomplish be "restarting" Clomid.
Hi Dr. Jim.
My doc has prescribed Androgel 1.62% for low T. Before starting TRT, we are trying clomid for 3 months at 25 mg ED. The hope is that the clomid will (1) raise my T levels, and (2) those level will remain raised after stopping clomid.
If (1) occurs, but not (2), then the options are to begin T replacement or, possibly use clomid on a longer term. The study which is the subject of this thread suggests that long term clomid use may be an effective and safe option.
Here are my latest labs:
Testosterone , Serum 318 ng/dL [Low] range 348-1197
Free Testosterone(Direct) 8.3 pg/mL range 6.8-21.5
DHEA-Sulfate 112.6 ug/dL range 44.3-331.0
Estradiol 10.0 pg/mL range 7.6-42.6
TSH 2.980 uIU/mL range 0.450-4.500
FSH 3.2 mIU/mL normal range 1.5-12.4 MB
LH 4.0 mIU/mL normal range 1.7-8.6 MB
I'm 46, very active, approx 12% BF.
Sense Clomid is a centrally acting SERM which blocks the hypothalamic release of GnRH, an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex is a good example) which decreases E-2 production, may so be complimentary.
Sounds like you found a DOC that's willing to go the distance.... OUTSTANDING!
Sounds like you found a DOC that's willing to go the distance.... OUTSTANDING!
[Not an endorsement, just FYI.]
SERMs as an alternative to testosterone replacement therapy
http://patrickarnoldblog.com/serms-as-an-alternative-to-testosterone-replacement-therapy/ (Patrick Arnold)
SERMs as an alternative to testosterone replacement therapy
http://patrickarnoldblog.com/serms-as-an-alternative-to-testosterone-replacement-therapy/ (Patrick Arnold)
I agree MS but some people seem to want that burst which is ubiquitous to testosterone injections. In fact I have attempted, often to no avail, to convience the younger lifters whom are often dead set on their first cycle, to give SARMs a try.
I use the following in a variety of synergistic combinations for HMT ;
SERMs, SARMs, HCG, Clomid and "lightweight" anabolics such as test-c, turinalon and Anavar.
Regards
Jim
I use the following in a variety of synergistic combinations for HMT ;
SERMs, SARMs, HCG, Clomid and "lightweight" anabolics such as test-c, turinalon and Anavar.
Regards
Jim
Defining The Rate Of Tachyphylaxis In Patients Using Daily Clomiphene Citrate
http://www.aua2012.org/abstracts/printpdf.cfm?ID=1499
Introduction and Objectives - Clomiphene citrate (CC) has become an increasingly recognized pharmacotherapy for men with hypogonadism (HG). With a half-life of 5 days, concern has been expressed regarding tachyphylaxis. Clinical experience has demonstrated that this concern is real. This analysis was performed to define the prevalence of this phenomenon.
Methods - Men with a diagnosis of HG, defined as two separate early morning total testosterone (TT) levels <300 ng/dl with ?3 &[prime]yes&[prime] responses on the Morley questionnaire (MQ) were counseled about therapeutic options including transdermal and intramuscular testosterone as well as CC. Those opting for CC therapy constituted the study population. Demographic and comorbidity data were recorded as well as physical and laboratory characteristics. Patients were treated with CC 25mg daily and if necessary, were uptitrated to CC 50mg daily. Laboratory testing was conducted 4 weeks after commencement and every six months thereafter. Response was defined as an increase of ?200 ng/dl in TT and a TT ?400ng/dl. Tachyphylaxis was defined as return to 50ng/dl within baseline TT level ?6 months after commencement of CC therapy. Student t-test was used to compare baseline and treatment TT levels. Chi-square analysis was used to compare MQ changes.
Results - 116 men with mean age = 40±12 years were studied. Mean pre-treatment testicular volume = 15±4 mls. 42/116 had a varicocele. Mean baseline T and LH levels were 211±112 ng/dl and 6±3.6 IU/ml. Mean peak TT level on CC = 441±230 ng/dl. 66% met the responder definition, with a mean increase in TT levels = 230±114 (201-502) ng/dl. In CC responders, the mean peak LH rise was 5±2.4 IU/ml. 52% of men had improvement in ?3 symptoms on the MQ (p<0.01). 7% (5 patients) met the definition of tachyphylaxis at a time point ? 6 months after starting CC. This was accompanied by a worsening in the symptoms on the MQ (p<0.05). 4/5 patients were switched to QOD CC dosing and 3/4 had a significant increase (<200ng/dl) in TT levels. Comparing those who did and did not develop tachyphylaxis, there were no significant differences in patient age, testicular volumes or varicocele presence between groups.
Conclusions - Daily CC dosing is associated with a low but distinct incidence of tachyphylaxis. There does not appear to be any reliable predictor of such tolerance. Changing patients to every other day dosing is a highly effective means of addressing this tachyphylactic response.
http://www.aua2012.org/abstracts/printpdf.cfm?ID=1499
Introduction and Objectives - Clomiphene citrate (CC) has become an increasingly recognized pharmacotherapy for men with hypogonadism (HG). With a half-life of 5 days, concern has been expressed regarding tachyphylaxis. Clinical experience has demonstrated that this concern is real. This analysis was performed to define the prevalence of this phenomenon.
Methods - Men with a diagnosis of HG, defined as two separate early morning total testosterone (TT) levels <300 ng/dl with ?3 &[prime]yes&[prime] responses on the Morley questionnaire (MQ) were counseled about therapeutic options including transdermal and intramuscular testosterone as well as CC. Those opting for CC therapy constituted the study population. Demographic and comorbidity data were recorded as well as physical and laboratory characteristics. Patients were treated with CC 25mg daily and if necessary, were uptitrated to CC 50mg daily. Laboratory testing was conducted 4 weeks after commencement and every six months thereafter. Response was defined as an increase of ?200 ng/dl in TT and a TT ?400ng/dl. Tachyphylaxis was defined as return to 50ng/dl within baseline TT level ?6 months after commencement of CC therapy. Student t-test was used to compare baseline and treatment TT levels. Chi-square analysis was used to compare MQ changes.
Results - 116 men with mean age = 40±12 years were studied. Mean pre-treatment testicular volume = 15±4 mls. 42/116 had a varicocele. Mean baseline T and LH levels were 211±112 ng/dl and 6±3.6 IU/ml. Mean peak TT level on CC = 441±230 ng/dl. 66% met the responder definition, with a mean increase in TT levels = 230±114 (201-502) ng/dl. In CC responders, the mean peak LH rise was 5±2.4 IU/ml. 52% of men had improvement in ?3 symptoms on the MQ (p<0.01). 7% (5 patients) met the definition of tachyphylaxis at a time point ? 6 months after starting CC. This was accompanied by a worsening in the symptoms on the MQ (p<0.05). 4/5 patients were switched to QOD CC dosing and 3/4 had a significant increase (<200ng/dl) in TT levels. Comparing those who did and did not develop tachyphylaxis, there were no significant differences in patient age, testicular volumes or varicocele presence between groups.
Conclusions - Daily CC dosing is associated with a low but distinct incidence of tachyphylaxis. There does not appear to be any reliable predictor of such tolerance. Changing patients to every other day dosing is a highly effective means of addressing this tachyphylactic response.
For those in here that have used clomid in lieu of test for TRT, how long did it take for you to feel better? I am week 3 of 25mgs daily and I feel no better. Actually I am sleeping like a zombie and it is hard to wake up. Other than that, no morning wood, no libido increase, etc. My endo wants me to go 6 weeks then run complete labs again. I felt way better on test. However the test was prescribed at an anti aging clinic and I realized by week 6 that they were clueless starting me at 200mgs a week. My endo had me stop for 4 weeks, ran labs then and advised to try the clomid after getting lab results to see if that would be enough rather than to make the lifetime commitment to test. I am all for the conservative approach and willing to wait it out, but is no noticeable response after 3 weeks an indicator it will not be an effective option for me?
Last edited:
Not exactly what you're asking and maybe it hasn't been long enough but at day 10 on 100mg per day I not only don't feel better....I feel worse both mentally and physically although I have other changes going on (weight loss and new thyroid med) so there's more going on over here.
Yeah I am not feeling great as well but I figure I will give it a few more weeks.
Hey congrats on the weight loss!! Stay focused, one day at a time.
Dr S, very interesting article, what journal did it come from?
Similar threads
